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Menset
16-06-2008, 19:45
I have two questions on challenges.

There was a thread similar to this but I feel the question was left unresolved.

1)The models still count as being in base to base with opposing unit but they may not be attacked buy anyone else, Outside of the cahllenge. Does this mean that Vambraces of the Sun (Defence) can remove a attack of someone in the challenge when being used from the outside but Destroyer of Eternities (Offence) will not work?

2)The rule book states once one of the opponents are dead the Challenge is over. Does this mean that HE on Dragon charges, I say challenge with Unit Champ. He attacks with Lord and Mount killing said Champ. Challenge is now over! So can the rest of the unit attack him and his mount. They say nothing about the rest of the unit attacking him that turn, only that he may not be attacked while in a Challenge.

luckyguy
16-06-2008, 20:20
I do not believe that anything outside of the challange effects those fighting it. This includes the remaining round of combat if one is destroyed.

Basically treat it as a seperate combat until one side fails a break test or one is destroyed. If one of the models in the challange is destroyed you cannot attack the victor that same round of combat.

xragg
16-06-2008, 20:44
"Aura" type affects still influence models in a challenge. For example, the amber pendant will still make models in base contact strike last, regardless of whether the hero carrying the pendant is in or next to the challenge. In prior editions, the models in the challenge would be set aside from the combat and affects occuring from being in base contact with models outlside the challenge would no longer apply. Another example, the undead banner that gives models in the unit a 4+ ward will still give the character in a challenge a 4+ ward.

I am at my parents house, so I cant quote the brb, but the character that accepts the challenge is moved so that it is touching the model declaring the challenge if they werent already touching. This movement can have dramatic affects since it could keep some RnF models from attacking.

eeeee
ceeee
OOOBO
OOOOO

e-empire(20mm), c-champion
o-orc(25mm), b-boss

Orc boss issues a challenge and the empire champion accepts. The empire champion is moved so he is b2b with the orc boss. If the empire champion is moved like this:

eeeee
eeeec
OOOBO
OOOOO

The orc on the far right would not be able to attack since he is only in contact with the empire champion, which he is not allowed to attack.

The Red Scourge
17-06-2008, 13:35
It is written under the description of each individual item, and there is no general rule.

T10
17-06-2008, 19:47
2)The rule book states once one of the opponents are dead the Challenge is over. Does this mean that HE on Dragon charges, I say challenge with Unit Champ. He attacks with Lord and Mount killing said Champ. Challenge is now over! So can the rest of the unit attack him and his mount. They say nothing about the rest of the unit attacking him that turn, only that he may not be attacked while in a Challenge.

Though the challenge ends with the death of either character, note the second paragrapgh in Fighting a Challenge (p.77):

"When combat is worked out (...) No other models may attack them or their mounts (...)"

Regardless, it is commonly held that the challenge "expires" at the end of the combat round, leaving the two characters to hack away at each other without interference.

-T10

acumen
17-06-2008, 23:45
A few questions of my own, forgive me if the BRB states it already, it's sorta vague from what I recall:

1. Chaos knights charge Empire halberdiers. There's a Chaos Hero and a Warrior Priest fighting in that close combat. Chaos hero issues a challenge and the WP accepts. Now does the Chaos hero benefit from any charging bonuses (ie lance)? Also, am I correct in saying that chariots mounted by heroes inflict their impact hits before the challenge occurs?

2. Combat ends on the aforementioned charge and the result is a tie. Next combat, are the two heroes still in the same challenge or must challenges be re-issued?

Also while I'm here, and instead of creating a new thread for just one question:

Let's say I'm playing Vampire Counts and I have an ally who is Skaven. My unit of skeletons gets destroyed right next to a unit of Clanrats. Do they take a panic test? I suppose the answer is pretty apparent, it just seems odd for an ally to care when a bunch of dead things die again.

xragg
18-06-2008, 02:31
1. yes, charge bonus apply such as the lance. Impact hits happen before the challenge and hit the unit.

2. Challenges last until one of the two heros die or their unit breaks from combat.

Condottiere
18-06-2008, 03:03
Also while I'm here, and instead of creating a new thread for just one question:

Let's say I'm playing Vampire Counts and I have an ally who is Skaven. My unit of skeletons gets destroyed right next to a unit of Clanrats. Do they take a panic test? I suppose the answer is pretty apparent, it just seems odd for an ally to care when a bunch of dead things die again.I asked that question yesterday, and the consensus seems to be yes. But it would be a house rule.

http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148393

:)