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Conotor
18-06-2008, 03:33
I'm not actually planning to use this, I'm just asking if it is TECHNICALY illegal. If it is legal, my confidence in GW's rule making skills will plummet.

For those who don't know what it is:
-Deploy 30 infantry 1 wide facing right.
-Weal 1" right
-About face (1")
-Change formation (2")

You have now crossed the board on turn 1. Then u release fanatics, cast the vampire dance thing, exe.

I know it is not something u would actuality do, but is it ILLEGAL?

Condottiere
18-06-2008, 03:58
I've heard of something similar with Vampires and their characters. As I understand it, it is legal.

In the case of Night Goblins, AFAIK, it is legal but illogical, since they have to keep the fanatics under control in their midst, before chucking them out and releasing them. I also think that it would disrupt the battle line of your army, which may make it more trouble than its worth.

Nurgling Chieftain
18-06-2008, 04:17
It is not legal as described; you aren't allowed to move more than the models' move under such circumstances.

The loophole is that one exception is if you march. If you march, no about face nor change formation, but you can still potentially launch fanatics that way. Very cheesy, of course.

ehlijen
18-06-2008, 04:20
You're using half your deployment edge to get one unit accross, with very limited control of where it's going. Unless this is the last unit you deploy and you get first turn, the opponent can easily get a counter in place.

I'm not too sure, but I think the change formation rules state that no model may move more than a march move in distance.

WLBjork
18-06-2008, 04:50
When wheeling, the measurement is made from the outer edge of the wheel, front to front.

This does allow a model (in the rear ranks) to move futher than otherwise allowed.

However, the above tactic is abusing this to the extreme. It's not forbidden in the rules, but neither are acts of violence on the enemy player.

edit: Wait, change formation? Hmm. Nope, nothing forbids changing the formation either - it's the reform manoeuvre that forbids exceeding double M.

Lord Aries
18-06-2008, 05:22
You can do this to some extent. Its really only useful for fanatics and MAYBE a VC unit or two.



However, it is a loophole, that once tried gains you an automatic enemy... You would become a pariah, and blacklisted within any gaming group or tournament. There are certain things that the rules never cover, or cover only in brevity. Its not GW's fault if you try and abuse them in an unsportsmanshiply manner. (i realize I made up a word)

Braad
18-06-2008, 08:05
But if you change the formation, then you are either in a big line across the board facing the enemy now, or if you add a rank, you are a still stretched unit in the middle of the board. So I can't see this being usefull for anything but the fanatic thing, and probably most people wouldn't accept it.

If you want infantry catapults, just buy a few doom divers.

T10
18-06-2008, 10:01
It is legal.


It is not legal as described; you aren't allowed to move more than the models' move under such circumstances.


This is simply not true. That rule is not applied to wheeling. Regardless of the size of the unit, the outer rear corner of the first rank is moving further then the outer front corner of the unit. The rules for wheeling allows this discrepancy which only becomes hopelessly obvious with long and narrow units.

You can observe this phenomena by drawing a square on a pice of graph paper and then drawing a circle using one of its sides as the radius.

-T10

DeathlessDraich
18-06-2008, 11:33
No sorry, this used to work in 6th ed but not in 7th because the front rank does not move. (EDIT when Changing formation)

Conotor
18-06-2008, 13:24
No sorry, this used to work in 6th ed but not in 7th because the front rank does not move.

The point is you turn around to face the enemy, then change formation.



To everyone who said this wouldn't actually be useful, you only loose the front inch of your deployment zone, and if you are using goblins, 90 points plus fanatics. Placing fanatics directly in your opponents end is VERY usefully.

With other races is can be a cheep march block, or a rush on a gun line.



I really hope they fix this in FAQ, not because it will ever be used, but just because such a gaping hole in the rules makes me mad.

DeathlessDraich
18-06-2008, 13:46
The point is you turn around to face the enemy, then change formation.
.

Yes, I'm aware of the sequence and used it in 6th ed but it simply wont work for the 7th ed for the reasons I've given above.

The loophole you mentioned has already been fixed.

Braad
18-06-2008, 19:47
In the end, it all boils down to this: You just don't do it, if you don't want to end up with a BRB stuck somewhere in the deep recesses of your throat.

WLBjork
19-06-2008, 05:08
No sorry, this used to work in 6th ed but not in 7th because the front rank does not move. (EDIT when Changing formation)

No, but the front rank does move when turning, as stated on page 13.

Thus, if you have the line of infantry facing North, the northern-most model is the front rank.

Carry out a turn manoeuvre so they are facing South, and now the southern-most model is the front rank.

Carry out a change formation manoeuvre, and the models move to the South, not to the North.

Nurgling Chieftain
19-06-2008, 06:10
It is not legal as described; you aren't allowed to move more than the models' move under such circumstances.
This is simply not true. That rule is not applied to wheeling.Hmm, I hadn't realized that was still a point of contention, since several long threads have used it as a starting point. "Models...cannot move farther than their normal Move rate unless charging, marching, pursuing, or fleeing..." - BRB, pg 12