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Conotor
19-06-2008, 04:03
I just took a 2nd slann for the first time, and it ended up killing 5 gobblins, 7 squigs, and 1 orc. It also blinded a unit of orcs with some heroes, letting my krox mash a BSB and mage, but they probably could have done that anyway.

Is this typical for a ~600 point mage, or am I choosing the wrong spells? I ended up with fireball, dark hand of death, creeping death, heal, and blinding light.

What do you usually go for in terms of lores, and what do u usually get out of it in terms of damage/whatever the spell does?

kroq'gar
19-06-2008, 04:10
1)Fallen in a pit of shades.
2)terrored off the board
3)Hidden all game in a wood.
4)sat gathering dust in my models cupboard.

Edit, always take plaque of tepoc. Then roll on law of fire. If you dont get something liek firy blast, default it and roll on another list, eg death. Same thing.

This is called the gattling slann. Unleash 5 low casting value, direct damage spells a turn, maximising his +1 to cast and free powerdice.

Oenghus
19-06-2008, 04:18
I usually roll on one of the lores that gives you a 'pulse' (Drain Life, for example) until I get one of them, and then get as many magic missiles as I can.

Of course, if I'm playing my buddy's double dragon list, I find myself rolling on beasts until I get Beast Cowers, or if I'm playing Vampires it's light and fire all the way, or if Bretonnians then metal, and so on.

I generally find that a 1:1:2 mix of high-level, high-casting value spells, mid-level 'utility' spells and low-level magic missiles (with my fifth spell [from Tepok] acting as a wild-card) is ideal. Of course, it never works out as cleanly as you'd like and occasionally you get a complete dud due to bad rolling.

In short, though, you should be getting more out of him. For orcs and goblins, try to get Doom and Darkness. -3 to their already questionable leadership can really make your day easier.

Braad
19-06-2008, 06:37
I played against one once, and he managed to miscast and exploded in the middle of his temple guard unit. He killed half of them.
Besides that, it was actually my lvl2 orc shaman who did more scary magic.

But since you took a 2nd generation, you shouldn't have the first problem. About the second, well magic always involves a bit of luck, and also practice. It can be quite difficult to see where the next spell will have the best effect and which spell to choose.

My guess is, try again a few times, just to find out how such a big caster works. Also, try to include at least one or two skink priest, cause magic really works best if you have lot of it, and not just enough to be countered with dispel dice and scrolls every turn.
Finally, make sure you have some hard CC units (saurus, cold ones, krox) for those nice combat boosting spells. I found magic to often work best when a) used to kill small things, or b) used to boost your own troops while killing big things.
But then again, I only use the O&G lores, so it might also depend on which you pick.

milosh
19-06-2008, 09:38
Yesterday I played against TK player and my Slann killed Hierophant with fiery blast. Then his unit with 16 TG destroyed in 2 turns unit of 20 tomb guards and Tomb King general.

And there were a lot of other good times with Slann :D This is just latest example

Braad
19-06-2008, 12:13
Yes, I guess that makes another thing springs to mind.
I think with most really expensive models, what happens is they either perform very, or they perform terrible (usually by dying), with not much in between.

Conotor
19-06-2008, 14:48
Braad:I killed all sources of magic defence by turn 2. The slann was unopposed until his death on the last combat phase of the game.
I don't see how priests would help much, as each 100 point priest can add 1 spell with 2 dice...

I will try him again sometime, and ill keep the "getting slann" in mind.

Krusty
19-06-2008, 16:01
well in a 2k game against wood elves, kroak managed to make my brother forfeit in the second turn with the help of kroxies taking out a treeman in one turn

Grimgormx
19-06-2008, 16:04
You need skink priest, so you can cast some spells with the telepaty rule, also, if you just got low level magic misiles, cast them using only 1 dice from your pool, remember to use your free dice everytime you cast.

Select your lores carefully, if your enemy has low T and armor, Fire lore will be great, if it has Hi T and armour, Metal lore will do it.

Heavens lore works good to.

Buy the plaque that gives you the extra spell.

Always use a Temple guar unit to protec it.

Big frogs rule!!!

Alathir
19-06-2008, 16:14
2)terrored off the board


Still one of the funniest things I've seen while playing this game... hahaha

Cragspyder
19-06-2008, 16:19
I played against one once, and he managed to miscast and exploded in the middle of his temple guard unit. He killed half of them.

Tell your Lizard player not to play with a 5th Generation Slann :)

Kongen
19-06-2008, 17:23
I played against one once, and he managed to miscast and exploded in the middle of his temple guard unit. He killed half of them.
Besides that, it was actually my lvl2 orc shaman who did more scary magic.

He what? He cant miscast :S thats the cool thing about him! :D

Conotor
19-06-2008, 18:07
I don't see how all these low level magic missles will help. I got of 2-3 a turn with almost no effect.

themandudeperson
19-06-2008, 21:13
Mine mostly spent each turn in a magic duel with Teclis. Most of my spells were Lore of Beasts, mostly to stop his dragon princes with "the beast cowers". I did have fireball and the rule of burning iron though, which kept his combaty hero away. I got a little cocky and stopped paying attention to the placement of a couple different units and took a joint Star Dragon and White Lions+Korhil charge and I rolled 5-6-6 for my leadership test and had them run down. *sigh*
Although, drain magic is a great spell for forcing your opponent to save their dispel dice and scrolls if they have a lvl 4 caster anywhere. Just casting this once will neuter your opponent's next magic phase. Then next turn, hammer in your spells due to the amount of attention your opponent will be putting on dispelling drain magic so their caster can become an actually contributing factor in their army.
Also, something most people don't seem to realize is that against a gunline, give your 2nd gen. toad some spells to restore his wounds, then give him the 2+ ward save vs shooting. Then let him run around by himself and keep reminding your opponent that if you bag him, that's game. It's a ballsy tactic, but if you keep your wounds up with your magic phase, you can make your opponent waste all of his shooting against a model that is very likely to shrug anything but cannonballs, but with 8 wounds, it's not like you're going to get 1-hit killed. You also have to worry about him getting cornered by narly CC units who're likely to beat him into a fine amphibian mush..

OldMagik
20-06-2008, 03:06
My 4th Gen ruled the magic phase defeating a Lvl 4 Dark Elf High Sorceress with Lvl 2 Sorceress helper. Massively hurting his magic phase and easily making up for his pts.
Otherwise he hasn't done anything thats very good . Oh he got mashed by 2 giants

Toast...
20-06-2008, 05:09
My brothers slann has not killed a single model in the last 3 games. I was afraid that it was gonna wipe my orcs out but fortunately miscast after miscast. :D

Kongen
20-06-2008, 14:11
I must admit, after reading the different posts that I have never seen bad things form my Slann. He always gets his job done:

- He always gets some kills
- He supports my units with his spells
- He takes my opponents attention
- He has never died, even though totally surrounded (including a dragon, a chariot, 5 coldone riders and some infantry the worst time)
- He holds my army glued together
- And he has the chance of breaking the opponents back whenever, because of some good spells

He is always worth his points! Ppl talk about him not being worth his points because he dosen't kill for the same amount of pts, but as long as hes alive and he kills some, then he has kept your points on the board and taken some from your opponent.. I have never seen a more effective lord yet. And my gamingbuddies absoloutly FEAR him!

Gotta love 2nd gen Slann! :D

W0lf
20-06-2008, 16:03
If you cant get the ebst out of a 2nd gen slaan then its your wn fault. dont look at the slaan.
Try ths:

2nd gen slaan
BSB with warbanner
Plaque of Tepok + Dominion, Diadem of power
610 pts.

Id run through tactics and such but tbh id be wasting my time, with so many variables its hard to have concise advice, try the build and see what works for you.

Conotor
20-06-2008, 17:00
2nd gen slaan
BSB with warbanner
Plaque of Tepok + Dominion, Diadem of power
610 pts.


I did that exept with no dominion. I don't need more power. I go off 90% of the spells I cast. They jsut had almost tno effect. 3 magic missles can kill ~4-5 orcs a turn. How is that worth ~600 points???

Will5869
20-06-2008, 17:31
Well i just started playing and chose lizardmen. I first made a list with a oldblood on a carnosaur, but decided to go with the slann for 2k. And im very happy with it.

My 2nd gen Slann has died only once (we played teams 4 on 3 and the players across me used an extra lord for pt make up and i faced a herald of change and greater unclean one, not pretty although i lasted till the end of turn 5)

Otherwise he's done extremely well. Against Brettonia i got a 10/9/12 hit rule of burning iron (the last spell in the list) which wiped out 3 units in 3 turns.

Against skaven i managed an 18 hit conflag. That made me quite happy.

So far so good with the Slann, im really enjoying dominating the magic phases.

Bac5665
20-06-2008, 18:07
Take the Totem of Prophecy for the BSB. Against fear causing armies, it saves your 1000+ points TG and Slaan point sink's butt, and against not fear causing armies, causing fear with a huge block of TG w/ a Slaan will be a big help as well.

Loosing to outnumbering fear causers is just to big a risk with a Slaan, make him cause fear. If you need the Warbanner, put in on the TG.

W0lf
20-06-2008, 18:29
They jsut had almost tno effect. 3 magic missles can kill ~4-5 orcs a turn. How is that worth ~600 points???

Dont target orcs. Play for the victory points. 6 pt models are a waste of time.

Anyway i assume your slaan survived, thus your 600pts stayed alive.

The fear banner isnt worth it imo. The slaan should be in unit of saurus with Tzlantcotl (SP?) blessing. No panic, no fear.

With banner, BSB, warbanner the saurus are on +3 already, they wont lose combat often and cold blooded Ld + BSB means they should hold anyway.

Tauren
20-06-2008, 18:39
I recently played against a slann, good jeez was he hard to kill, so hard I couldn't kill him, after 6 rounds of close combat with a doom-bull bestigor unit. Lets just say 24 attacks against his last temple guard and it didn't die really pissed me off. His spells roasted a lot of my units also, cleansing flare anyone?

Being a new player myself, I should have checked if he had the fear banner else my doom-bull would have rolled the entire unit 3rd turn. Never lost a combat against the unit though and my bestigors and doom-bull slaughtered his unit every single close combat phase pretty much.

N810
20-06-2008, 18:47
He what? He cant miscast :S thats the cool thing about him! :D

It must have been a 5th generation slan...

Kongen
20-06-2008, 20:36
The "fearbanner" is cheap for 75 points! Look at it this way:

Hopefully u will take the charge from the front so your CR before the fight will look like this:
1 - standard
1 - warbanner (slann)
1 - BSB
1 - outnumberring (they will hit u with something heavyhitting aka. not infantry)
x - ranks (I personally got 3 ranks)

= 7 in CR before they have swung their weapons

On top of that we got a musican if its a drawn, and the fearbanner! So if we win (and outnumber), and they arent immune, they gotta role snakeeyes. Thats pretty good. And have worked for me loads of times.

I know a 2nd gen slann and a big block of TG is a lot of points. But they can withstand nearly anything! Just make sure u dont let it stay in your backfield. Get it into combat and keep throwing magic! Then your opponent has to stay focused on the block, and not your support units. Another trick is to give the TG unit the standard of huahunci. Then watch your opponents face when he thought he had a rearcharge! :D

Tauren
20-06-2008, 21:08
Thats all fine and dandy, till I hit you with a bestigor unit 3 ranks deep, with a BSB wielding gore banner, +1 attack to everything in the unit, running with a doom-bull general, wielding GW's that magically charged into your front. Just a thought :P Happened in the last game minus the gore banner of BSB, was just a standard bearer and war-banner and they never won any combats that entire game.

Hope I don't hit ya with minotaurs that boost my fear US above yours after I whittle you down a little.

W0lf
20-06-2008, 23:07
Or i ignore your slaan block and kill everything in your army

How much money do you wanna place on it that your slaan cant kill enough to make up the pts lost in support troops?

Oh and that slaan block is still far from unbeatable, Daemons and vampire for example would wreck that with ease.

Pavic
20-06-2008, 23:41
The fear banner isnt worth it imo. The slaan should be in unit of saurus with Tzlantcotl (SP?) blessing. No panic, no fear.

I think the fear banner is very much worth the 75 points. With Daemons and VC running around, it will save your slann's big slimy bottom.

I don't think the a Saurus unit w/ Tlazcotl cuts it to protect a Slann. I like to have my nice stubborn temple guard. Combined with the Totem of Prophecy, they are as close to unbreakable without having the rule as any unit can be.


Or i ignore your slaan block and kill everything in your army

How much money do you wanna place on it that your slaan cant kill enough to make up the pts lost in support troops?

Oh and that slaan block is still far from unbeatable, Daemons and vampire for example would wreck that with ease.

Actually, in my most recent game against daemons, my 4th Generation Slann killed the opposing Keeper of Secrets and Bloodthirster. I had terrible spell rolls, ending up with mostly cheap magic missles, but he still finished them off.

I have not run a Slann against VC yet, but I am looking forward to the opportunity and hopefully I prove you wrong :D

That said, Slann rely on magic. Magic is a big gamble, even with the Slann. One will have bad games. It is unavoidable. But it is games when the Slann is at his best that make the bad games worth it.

Lastly, if I run a 2nd gen, he always has the following: Plaque of Tepok, The Divine Plaque of Protection, Diadem of Power, and the Totem of Prophecy. I generally roll on lore of fire, lore of light, and lore of death, opting for the magic missles if I don't like the spells. The last two spells I generally roll on the lists that I did not opt for the magic missles for. However, if I hit dwarfs, I roll on lore of metal. I also like lore of life against wood elves. I never roll of lore of shadows or lore of heavens simply because there is too big of a chance to get a useless spell.

We can all just hope that when Lizardmen get revised, all Slann, or at least the higher level Slann, get access to six spells automatically.

OldMagik
20-06-2008, 23:43
I owned a bestigor unit with my TG everything in it was killed and his lord went down with the unit. It was a massacre . .. oh wait that was my regular saurus . . . :P i didn't even need TG to kill the bestigors & lord not even a fighting hero was used now tell me ur bestigors are good

W0lf
20-06-2008, 23:51
Actually, in my most recent game against daemons, my 4th Generation Slann killed the opposing Keeper of Secrets and Bloodthirster. I had terrible spell rolls, ending up with mostly cheap magic missles, but he still finished them off.

And i once beat a chaos lord with a goblin big boss.

Oh and teclis sucks cause my opponent miscasted twice and killed himself first turn.

Did i mention i beat a 5 yr old when he had double the pts i did?

Your above example is absolutly ludicrious. How anyone could bring that up as a serious example of what a slaan will typically do is beyond me.

Pavic
21-06-2008, 02:07
Your above example is absolutly ludicrious. How anyone could bring that up as a serious example of what a slaan will typically do is beyond me.

I see someone woke up on the wrong side of the bed.

I was simply pointing out that Slann can and do pay for themselves in some games. Certainly the example I provided was an uncommon event, but in almost every case that I have taken a 2nd generation Slann, he has paid for himself.

themandudeperson
21-06-2008, 02:25
I did that exept with no dominion. I don't need more power. I go off 90% of the spells I cast. They jsut had almost tno effect. 3 magic missles can kill ~4-5 orcs a turn. How is that worth ~600 points???

There are other, more useful spells one can use when you can mix and match several spells from different lores. The lore with Doom and Darkness is a great way to run units off from skink blowpipes forcing panic tests. The lore of beasts is great for slowing down calvary for kroxigor to smash, super-powering your JSoD and has a magic bolt thrower that's great against big gribblies and flanking shots into calvary. The lore of metal is bad ass against heavily armored armies and warmachine/chariot heavy builds.
Personally, I'd rather try and roll for the good support spells then default to the magic missiles if I roll crap. Sometimes the dice hate you though.. and no mage can get around that.
But believe me: a successful casting of "the wolf hunts" paired with cold one riders with huanchi's blessed totem can move your calvary across the whole table damned near it! (14" march + d6" totem + 2d6" spell= 17-32") hell, even TK have problems delivering that kind of power that far that fast.

Tauren
21-06-2008, 03:49
I owned a bestigor unit with my TG everything in it was killed and his lord went down with the unit. It was a massacre . .. oh wait that was my regular saurus . . . :P i didn't even need TG to kill the bestigors & lord not even a fighting hero was used now tell me ur bestigors are good

Right and what was said person doing with said bestigors? letting them get charged? We are indeed talking about movement 5 troops vs movement 4... *rolls eyes*

Kongen
21-06-2008, 07:14
Thats all fine and dandy, till I hit you with a bestigor unit 3 ranks deep, with a BSB wielding gore banner, +1 attack to everything in the unit, running with a doom-bull general, wielding GW's that magically charged into your front. Just a thought :P Happened in the last game minus the gore banner of BSB, was just a standard bearer and war-banner and they never won any combats that entire game.

Hope I don't hit ya with minotaurs that boost my fear US above yours after I whittle you down a little.

The guy that played Lizardmen must have screwed his tactic up REALLY bad! I mean like, REALLY!! How would u ever let them get into combat on the charge?

But heck, u can kill anything with the right circumstance! So u can keep mention things that will kill it, but they arent cheap either. And a good LM general will ofc see the danger in what u are bringing.

The_Dragon_Rising
21-06-2008, 08:45
My Slaan usually wins me the game. Forcing panic checks, killing expensive models, if played well, take the right spells and target the right units he is a monster....a monster who is yet to die.

W0lf
21-06-2008, 11:41
So the some people say they are worth it some say they arnt.

Some people are good players, some people arnt.

Im ganna make the outrageous assumption that the good players get the most out of a slaan and therefore they are good.

To quote myself:


If you cant get the best out of a 2nd gen slaan then its your own fault. dont look at the slaan.

Tauren
21-06-2008, 17:19
The thing with the slann is he has to make his points back. IF you manage to kill everything else the player owns off, IE all his supporting units the slann is in trouble. And if the slann dies well thats game.

W0lf
21-06-2008, 19:12
The thing with the slann is he has to make his points back

By not dieing he makes his points back.

Anythign he kills is a bonus.

Condottiere
22-06-2008, 01:08
Well, my friend prefers to create combat heavy LM list, no slaan below 3000 points.