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View Full Version : Playability of a Necromancer Only VC Army



robertsjf
21-06-2008, 17:39
As characters at least, ran a search and didn't see this (at least not for this edition). Nor have I paged through the army book, so bear with me. I just wanted to ask all the VC generals if they thought it could be pulled off, and how/why/why not. Thanks in advance!

Abhorash
21-06-2008, 18:04
Im not sure if there is anything to prevent it but it would be realy weak...

Loopstah
21-06-2008, 18:06
Illegal since you must have a vampire in the army.

forgottenlor
21-06-2008, 18:07
I play with necromancers. They have a couple of virtues. They are cheap and you can pick their spells. A necromancer with a dispel scroll is a good way to increase your magic defence with out dishing out alot of points. The problem with vampires, is that if you have a tooled out level 2 wizard, you are probably spending double what you would be for a necromancer, which means having a smaller army. Also the vampire who is tooled out as a mage may be an effective killer, but is almost as vulnerable in close combat ás a necromancer is.
Playing with only necromancers though means passing up one of the big strengths in a vampire army. On the other hand think of having 4 balefires.

W0lf
21-06-2008, 18:13
You can do it if you want. You can take nothing but zombies if you want; dosnt make it a good idea.

Loopstah
21-06-2008, 18:21
Playing with only necromancers though means passing up one of the big strengths in a vampire army. On the other hand think of having 4 balefires.

The big strength being the vampires, of which you MUST take at least one for a legal list, you mean?

robertsjf
21-06-2008, 18:47
You guys are great, 5 responses within an hour!


The big strength being the vampires, of which you MUST take at least one for a legal list, you mean?

OK, there's a good reason. As mentioned, hadn't paged through the latest VC book and AB didn't mention any such restriction (not that AB is an armybook replacement, not at all. The program is intened to be used alongside the appropriate armybook and in no way is meant as a challenge to GW's IP).



dosnt make it a good idea.
See I was kind of hoping for a rational. Like using all zombies not being the best idea due to the fact that part of playing Warhammer is about being able to kill the other players army, and Zombies don't do that.... I kinda wanted a similar rational on why someone using all necros would desrve to be committed.

theunwantedbeing
21-06-2008, 19:05
Vampire plus 3 necromancers gives a lot of spare points for troops.
Seems like a good thing to me, troops are what makes VC armies fun...those 4 vamp next to no men armies are somewhat "boring" to play against.

Reinnon
21-06-2008, 20:50
i run a magic vampire lord, wight king and 2 necromancers on carts in my 2000 point vampire army, and the necromancers always seem to perform well.

best thing is the choice of magic - inv and VDM are the best two choices imo - raise dead isn't as good.

the necromancers provide reliable magic, not much - but enough. they are cheap scroll caddies and give one the book of arkham and you have a very good support char.

carts with balefire are also fantastic, ASF is really useful and the magic disruption alone speaks for itself

Andrew Luke
23-06-2008, 20:26
I dunno, everytime I field a Corpse Cart it seems to get hit with a stone thrower or something first turn. To put a necromancer on it so it can go in a unit would be nice, but It just doesn't seem to be effective pointswise in lieu of a kitted out vampire. It could be fun dont get me wrong, but I just don't see it being a 'competitive' build. But why don't you build the army and prove me wrong?!

Aflo
23-06-2008, 20:39
You can limit vampires and simply model them as buffed necromancers (think Drachenfels or Nagash), looking similar to the necromancer lotr mini perhaps. At the end of it, a vampire is just a statline and a points value..

Reinnon
23-06-2008, 20:50
but there are several key reasons to take a necromancer (or a wight king) over a vampire:

1) points costs: a fully kitted out vampire costs around 200 points, anecromancer is a fraction of the points

2) a necromancer can choose his spells: a vampire can only do this with the expensive forbidden lore, then he is stuck with level one. A necromancer can get the important spells without limiting his choice

3) necromancers can ride carts: carts add more ASF to a vampire army, thats been so useful in my games i will never take a vampire army without at least one cart. Yes they have stone thrower target written all over them, but the cart has regen and so has a fairly good chance to survive.

4) more effective magic defense: nothing says magic defense like a cheap scroll caddie on the back of a cart which adds -1 to the enemies magic roll

After test games, i got rid of the hero choice vampires as they never did anything - i tried every combo under the book and the most successful one was the mounted one with the bloody hauberk. Compared to a wight king or necromancer vampires don't really add anything. If i want magic - then a necromancer is far cheaper and just as effective. While if i want close combat then a wight king with his killing blow provides a cheaper and tougher substitute.

With black coaches, varghulfs and the vampire lord you have enough vampires to provide an effective net over your army for marching.

Azmazi
23-06-2008, 22:10
The big strength being the vampires, of which you MUST take at least one for a legal list, you mean?

On page 88 it does require you to have one vampire be the general. It also states it must be a "character" so you couldn't get a work around and so something like 4 necros, and making a Varghulf be the general (Which ironically would be funny.)

The major downside to not having vampires however is marching because a big issue. As with an all necromancer list, only the general can allow marching from 12 inches from him/her self. So you will have issues unless you take things like a Varghulf or so.

What you could so is just take a Thrall and make it your General, and take necromancers throughout. This would save you points if you decided to go with more bodies, but it does lower your killing ability, so I would suggest bulking up on good rare/special choices if you do this.

Azmazi
23-06-2008, 22:16
but there are several key reasons to take a necromancer (or a wight king) over a vampire:

1) points costs: a fully kitted out vampire costs around 200 points, anecromancer is a fraction of the points

2) a necromancer can choose his spells: a vampire can only do this with the expensive forbidden lore, then he is stuck with level one. A necromancer can get the important spells without limiting his choice

3) necromancers can ride carts: carts add more ASF to a vampire army, thats been so useful in my games i will never take a vampire army without at least one cart. Yes they have stone thrower target written all over them, but the cart has regen and so has a fairly good chance to survive.

4) more effective magic defense: nothing says magic defense like a cheap scroll caddie on the back of a cart which adds -1 to the enemies magic roll

After test games, i got rid of the hero choice vampires as they never did anything - i tried every combo under the book and the most successful one was the mounted one with the bloody hauberk. Compared to a wight king or necromancer vampires don't really add anything. If i want magic - then a necromancer is far cheaper and just as effective. While if i want close combat then a wight king with his killing blow provides a cheaper and tougher substitute.

With black coaches, varghulfs and the vampire lord you have enough vampires to provide an effective net over your army for marching.

The only way to make a 4 vampire list work is a VERY hard hitting line. Basically the only army I use it with is a heavy cav army with pretty much ghouls core. They have held their own well, but you have to understand the army very well (By that I mean I played this setup before the new war book for about a year+ to learn it very effectively). Even with this the upside now is and its also a downside, you have to learn how to kite the units properly to use the insubstantial steeds bonus by putting the vampires in key units and leaving the ones without the ability to hide behind terrain for flank moves.

I personally don't rune corpse carts due to my army theme. Even though blood dragons are gone, my army is still Blood Dragon. Also, I watched most o f the corpse cart + necro armies get dominated by the new Deamon players and I actually manage to get frequent draws against players using stuff like a Bloodthirster, but its not easy thats for sure.

So I would honestly say if you're a new VC player, run a balance of the two, and test out a lot of lists to find what you like more. You will most likely lose the first 5-10 games till you find what you really like and play it effectively. Don't put yourself down for this though, and also don't just use someone elses list you find on here as well, since that takes away the "make the army your own" feel from it. Borrow some ideas, but don't just borrow a list.