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View Full Version : Eldar 1500pt List 5th Ed, Comments Welcome



Autobot HQ
22-06-2008, 00:56
Ok, so I'm looking to the future and I want a view of the following army list. I have everything I'm listing here, but I'm open to any suggestions of things to add:

Eldrad: 210
9 D. Avengers + Exarch: Shimmershield, Bladestorm & Defend 177
9 D. Avengers + Exarch: Shimmershield, Bladestorm & Defend 177
8 Pathfinders 192
8 Pathfinders 192
4 D. Reapers + Exarch: Tempest, Fast Shot, Crack Shot 237
Wraithlord: Bright Lance 130
Wraithlord: Bright Lance 130
= 1435pts

Views and ideas welcome. I know I kinda lack anti-tank, but I'm hoping Eldrad with the eldritch storm, and sniper fire rending can bring most the targets down.

Views welcome.

A-HQ

Jaradakar
22-06-2008, 09:52
Ok, so I'm looking to the future and I want a view of the following army list. I have everything I'm listing here, but I'm open to any suggestions of things to add:

Eldrad: 210
9 D. Avengers + Exarch: Shimmershield, Bladestorm & Defend 177
9 D. Avengers + Exarch: Shimmershield, Bladestorm & Defend 177
8 Pathfinders 192
8 Pathfinders 192
4 D. Reapers + Exarch: Tempest, Fast Shot, Crack Shot 237
Wraithlord: Bright Lance 130
Wraithlord: Bright Lance 130
= 1435pts

Views and ideas welcome. I know I kinda lack anti-tank, but I'm hoping Eldrad with the eldritch storm, and sniper fire rending can bring most the targets down.
Views welcome.
A-HQ

-Personally I'd drop an Avenger squad for guardians with a warlock. That squad can then baby sit the Wratihlords (Wraithsight) and free up Eldrad to do other things. Also that gives you another heavy weapon which can be either anti-SM or anti armor depending on need.

-At 1500 points I think it's a waste not to have 2 weapons on your Wraithlords (I only go a single weapon for smaller point games). Adding an Eldar missile Launcher keeps there anti armor role but gives them more shots.

-Avengers, I love giving them a shimmer shield and using them as a tar pit, but you need to have a hammer (Shee, harlies, Avatar, scorps etc etc). You have none, so it seems like you'd be better off going power sword shurk, or 2 shurkin. Also I rarely see the point in mix/matching. Either build the Avengers as a tar pit (shimmer + defend) or plan on them being shooty with Bladestorm.

-I personally hate reapers and think they're not worth a Heavy slot. I think just about anything else would be better... Falcon, War walker squad, Prisim etc. They're just not very versatile due to not being able to move and shoot.

Anyway that's my thoughts.

-Jara

Murphys Avatar
23-06-2008, 16:31
I have been pondering the reapers use in 5th. For the Exarch to ignore cover with two templates of fire three templates is pretty awesome, especially now that there are no partials and it is ap3 (used with doom would be deadly).

The problems are it is a HS slot, the two reapers with the exarch arent doing much due to hiding them as much as poss and it is extremely expensive for three models. I will try em out though!

badnewsblair
23-06-2008, 18:41
-Personally I'd drop an Avenger squad for guardians with a warlock. That squad can then baby sit the Wratihlords (Wraithsight) and free up Eldrad to do other things. Also that gives you another heavy weapon which can be either anti-SM or anti armor depending on need.

-At 1500 points I think it's a waste not to have 2 weapons on your Wraithlords (I only go a single weapon for smaller point games). Adding an Eldar missile Launcher keeps there anti armor role but gives them more shots.

-Avengers, I love giving them a shimmer shield and using them as a tar pit, but you need to have a hammer (Shee, harlies, Avatar, scorps etc etc). You have none, so it seems like you'd be better off going power sword shurk, or 2 shurkin. Also I rarely see the point in mix/matching. Either build the Avengers as a tar pit (shimmer + defend) or plan on them being shooty with Bladestorm.

-I personally hate reapers and think they're not worth a Heavy slot. I think just about anything else would be better... Falcon, War walker squad, Prisim etc. They're just not very versatile due to not being able to move and shoot.

Anyway that's my thoughts.

-Jara

Going to agree with all points here. I'll even begrudge the suggestion to use Guardians (sorry, I just don't like them).

However, the reason behind taking Guardians with the addition of a Warlock to babysit Wraithlords is sound and For the points value of the army, I agree on taking them.

And definitely right on about the additional weapons for the Wraithlord. The EML will do your army wonders!

I'm split on the Dark Reapers. Love the models, know their strengths. However, I've never used them in any of my armies. Take that for what it's worth. I'd like to see a revision to this list.

Autobot HQ
23-06-2008, 21:22
Ok, this is the revision as it stands.

Eldrad Ulthuan: 210
9 D. Avengers + Exarch: Shimmershield, Bladestorm & Defend 177
11 Guardians, EML + Warlock: Conceal & Spiritseer 146
8 Pathfinders 192
8 Pathfinders 192
4 D. Reapers + Exarch: Tempest & Crack Shot 217
Wraithlord: Bright Lance & EML 155
Wraithlord: Bright Lance & EML 155
= 1444

I'd never use Fast Shot, as crack shot will allow me more relaible wounds and ignore the abundence of cover saves in 5th. I like the avengers fully kitted as it means I can use them to blw a whole through the table to the objective and still defend it at the other end in a fight. I like the Guardian idea, just means taking guardians as I hate the damn things too. EML on the wraiths have been taken. I have 56pts left.

Now, I could drop the Reapers, take a Prism instead and use the spare 113pts of the list and have three units of 7 Pathfinders rather than two of 8, but I don't imagine I'd use them that well. Or, take a third W.Lord. I also have this alternative list idea:

Eldrad Ulthuan: 210
9 D. Avengers + Exarch: Shimmershield, Bladestorm & Defend 177
6 Wraithguard + Warlock: Spiritseer & Enhance 250
8 Pathfinders 192
8 Pathfinders 192
Wraithlord: Bright Lance & EML 155
Wraithlord: Bright Lance & EML 155
Wraithlord: Bright Lance & EML 155
= 1486

Eldrad in the WGuard unit would give them T6 3+ RR save, would be a huge wall to get past and would give them 3 WLords for support. The Avengers can take objectives and the PF's can blow units to shreds. The Wraithguns means nothing can really stand in front of them saftly without the risk of me destroying it.

Ideas, comments as always welcome.

A-HQ

badnewsblair
23-06-2008, 21:33
I'm going to say the second list looks stronger, but I may be biased against the Dark Reapers and towards the Wrathlords. Looks like you have two strong lists to work from here.

I really like the Pathfinders. Oh man, two units of 8 would be so much fun!

Raider
23-06-2008, 21:46
I find theres little reason to use Pathfinders in units of more then five. They are basicly immune to shooting with 4+ -> 2+ saves pretty much anywhere on the map and are hopeless in close combat or against weapons that ignore coversaves, so big units mostly make for big losses, less chance to pin and more chance to overkill. The only advantage seems to be that big units provide less kill points to the opponent.

Autobot HQ
23-06-2008, 22:36
I find theres little reason to use Pathfinders in units of more then five. They are basicly immune to shooting with 4+ -> 2+ saves pretty much anywhere on the map and are hopeless in close combat or against weapons that ignore coversaves, so big units mostly make for big losses, less chance to pin and more chance to overkill. The only advantage seems to be that big units provide less kill points to the opponent.

I usually go units of 6, but with only hitting on balistic skill in the new rules, I think units of 8 will be more reliable in case Eldrad can't support them for some reason, will have less KP on the table, and has a better chance at totally wiping out smaller squads and monsterous creatures. I am loathe to reduce them especially to 5-man squads as I think that's asking them to die personally. I'd only reduce them if I was going to take them in another squad elsewhere, or look at boosting the wraithguard unit to maybe 8 man.

I could take 7-man teams, save 48pts along with the 14 left over for 62pts, so if I can shave 8pts from somewhere I could have an 8-man team of Wraithguard. How's that look? I could even save the points by turning Enhance into Embolden, making Eldrad re-roll failed Psychic tests.

Miggidy Mack
23-06-2008, 22:40
With the sheer number of cover saves available you may consider skipping the dark reapers. Banshees can cover the same "anti-marine" space and also server as a strong counter charge unit to your snipers.

BDA
23-06-2008, 23:54
a little note i think i should point out is that i beleve storm now scatters 2D6" as it is a blast =S
i could be wrong and i hope i am as a 2D6" scatter on an 18" range is not nice =S

Warped Bob
24-06-2008, 00:23
Eldritch storm makes no mention of scattering so unless it's FAQed it seems to be one of the most accurate blasts of 5th edition.

Rangerrob
24-06-2008, 00:29
I rarely took Storm, so I might be wrong. But you didn't have to roll to hit before...so why would you scatter now?

Jaradakar
24-06-2008, 00:47
I usually go units of 6, but with only hitting on balistic skill in the new rules, I think units of 8 will be more reliable in case Eldrad can't support them for some reason, will have less KP on the table, and has a better chance at totally wiping out smaller squads and monsterous creatures. I am loathe to reduce them especially to 5-man squads as I think that's asking them to die personally. I'd only reduce them if I was going to take them in another squad elsewhere, or look at boosting the wraithguard unit to maybe 8 man.

I could take 7-man teams, save 48pts along with the 14 left over for 62pts, so if I can shave 8pts from somewhere I could have an 8-man team of Wraithguard. How's that look? I could even save the points by turning Enhance into Embolden, making Eldrad re-roll failed Psychic tests.

Personally I always run 6 man squads of Pathfinders (or rangers) whenever I can and only drop to 5 if I'm really really tight on points and have nothing else that can/willing to give up.

In 4th ED, more than 6 seems to be a waste imo. It's harder for the whole unit to find cover and you tend to over kill. I would rather take 3 squads of 6 each (18 rangers) than 2 squads of 8 (16 rangers). This opens up your firing options and you can take multiple objectives. Now granted with 5th ED kill points plus troops staying scoring till the last man... the larger squads might not be a bad idea.

Jaradakar
24-06-2008, 01:27
Ok, this is the revision as it stands.

Eldrad Ulthuan: 210
9 D. Avengers + Exarch: Shimmershield, Bladestorm & Defend 177
11 Guardians, EML + Warlock: Conceal & Spiritseer 146
8 Pathfinders 192
8 Pathfinders 192
4 D. Reapers + Exarch: Tempest & Crack Shot 217
Wraithlord: Bright Lance & EML 155
Wraithlord: Bright Lance & EML 155
= 1444

I'd never use Fast Shot, as crack shot will allow me more relaible wounds and ignore the abundence of cover saves in 5th. I like the avengers fully kitted as it means I can use them to blw a whole through the table to the objective and still defend it at the other end in a fight. I like the Guardian idea, just means taking guardians as I hate the damn things too. EML on the wraiths have been taken. I have 56pts left.

Now, I could drop the Reapers, take a Prism instead and use the spare 113pts of the list and have three units of 7 Pathfinders rather than two of 8, but I don't imagine I'd use them that well. Or, take a third W.Lord. I also have this alternative list idea:

Eldrad Ulthuan: 210
9 D. Avengers + Exarch: Shimmershield, Bladestorm & Defend 177
6 Wraithguard + Warlock: Spiritseer & Enhance 250
8 Pathfinders 192
8 Pathfinders 192
Wraithlord: Bright Lance & EML 155
Wraithlord: Bright Lance & EML 155
Wraithlord: Bright Lance & EML 155
= 1486

Eldrad in the WGuard unit would give them T6 3+ RR save, would be a huge wall to get past and would give them 3 WLords for support. The Avengers can take objectives and the PF's can blow units to shreds. The Wraithguns means nothing can really stand in front of them saftly without the risk of me destroying it.

Ideas, comments as always welcome.

A-HQ

-If you're going Wraithguard (and having them foot slog) I think you'll be better off going with 10+ Spiritseer (Lock) so they'll count as troops/scoring. Granted this is real world expensive (talking ~$100 USD and one of the reasons I don't have such a unit yet).

-Also my minimal experience with Wraithguard... is that they suck in hand to hand. Yet with 12" range they have to get very close to shoot. This translates to smart opponents will tie you up in assaults. Which points to your lack of assault units. What happens when they get stuck in an assault? It sucks having that many points tied up turn after turn. While you could bring in the Wraithlords, I often hate bring them out of cover (keeps them alive), and even if they do get into melee, with only 2 attacks they are not the fastest assault killers.

-But I personally like the swap of Reapers for a 3rd Wraithlord. Of course you don't have much mobility going that route.

-In many many games I've played, opponents end up getting into HtH on my Pathfinders (as it's one of the most effective ways to kill them). I've found having a unit of Scorpions (Infiltrated with them) or unit of Banshees/Clowns in reserve in a transport (Falcon/Wave) is a great way to increase their survival by a large amount.

The-Malefic
24-06-2008, 01:59
I would:

Lose the 9th Avenger, drop defend, give the exarch his twin shurikens.

8 Has always worked out as the perfect squad size for me, in terms of points VS effectiveness. Imo, Defend is a total waste of time as they're still far too frail to be worthwhile in CC anyway. hence, give the exarch the twins, and then use them to bladestorm the heck out of something, either sit in cover, or else fall back with their run move. dragging chasing units out of posistion and whatnot. Always found this to be their best role, and apart from everyone getting run (but hey, they do't get Fleet ;) ) I don't see 5th changing that for me.

The wraithlord plus guard will work well, but imo taking three is a bit boring. But hey, it's your army afterall.

The one thing that really pops out as a bad move however, is the lack of scoring units. 2 units of pathfinders will naturally probably be able to hold off most things, unless they get charged, in which case they definatly won't. But if you find yourself playing seize and control and the roll for loot comes up high, you might struggle to win given that you don't have too much in the way of mobility to counter the lack of scoring.

I'm biased here, but my Saim Hann jetbikes have proved to be great so far playing 5th ed games, sneaking around all over the place and making last gasp dives to contest or hold objectives. 6 of those should do the job nicely. Other than that, maybe something in a Wave serpent would work.

Hope this helps.

BDA
24-06-2008, 12:20
Storm is a shooting attack and all physic powers that count as shooting now follow the rules for shooting unless mentioned otherwise.
Blasts now scatter and storm is a large blast so this is its logical conclusion.
Like I said I could be wrong but there is nothing in there saying that I am =S I am interested in other peoples views who have read the rule book.

Oh and another thing you can only use one shooting power a turn so that is mind war or storm not both =S

Autobot HQ
24-06-2008, 12:38
The rules have always been, AFAIK, "Here are the rules and unless you specifically state you're an exception to the rules, follow them". Eldrad states he can use the same power twice if he wishes, so he (And only he mind) Could use two shooting powers a turn, assuming it was the same power. I.E two Mindwars or two Storms.

Rangerrob
24-06-2008, 21:52
Storm is a shooting attack and all physic powers that count as shooting now follow the rules for shooting unless mentioned otherwise.
Blasts now scatter and storm is a large blast so this is its logical conclusion.
Like I said I could be wrong but there is nothing in there saying that I am =S I am interested in other peoples views who have read the rule book.


Using that logic you will now have to make a to hit roll using the Farseers BS with Mind War, before rolling the d6 + Ld. Can't see needing three sucessful rolls for a Psychic power to work, and that is without the opposing psycher getting in the way. (P-test, to hit roll, d6+ LD roll off)

BDA
25-06-2008, 12:47
Autobot it is very very very clear that you may not use more than one psychic shooting power in the same turn unless you are able to shoot more than one ranged weapon a turn and he can not and these rule override his sorry. But he can still cast doom and stuff twice.

It also says that psychic powers that count as shooting attacks counts as firing an assault weapon unless specified otherwise. And unless specified you need line of sight, can not be locked in combat and must not have run in the shooting phase and they can only assault the unit they have cast the power on.

One thing it dose not mention is needing to roll to hit with BS with shooting psychic attacks.