PDA

View Full Version : First attempt at beastmen, 1500pts



stwess
22-06-2008, 14:46
So simple enough im thinking of starting beastmen.
Why? well simply because i like the background to the army (being a chaos player in both fantasy and 40k). Im also quite happy with the look of the minatures as opposed to things like empire which i find boring and lacking in character.

So i had a look through the beasts book with the intention of writing a list that was relativly flexable with a decent theme and look about it. I also wanted to base it relitivly heavily on magic (although hopefully not OTT) having played khorne in the past i wanted a change :) although i was tempted by slaanesh i just cudnt help myself from writing a list based on the true god of magic. this is what i thought up:

Heroes
Wargor 155 pts
Dispell Scroll, Mark of Tzeench

Wargor 155 pts
Dispell Scroll, Mark of Tzeench

Bray-Shaman 100 pts
Dispell Scroll

Core Units
Beast Herd 117 pts
9 Gor, 6 Ungor, Foe-Render, Standard

Beast Herd 117 pts
9 Gor, 6 Ungor, Foe-Render, Standard

Beast Herd 117 pts
9 Gor, 6 Ungor, Foe-Render, Standard

Beast Herd 117 pts
9 Gor, 6 Ungor, Foe-Render, Standard

Tusgor Charriot 85 pts

Tusgor Charriot 85 pts

Special Units
4 Minotaurs 184 pts
Additional Hand Weapons, Mark of Tzeench

4 Minotaurs 184 pts
Additional Hand Weapons, Mark of Tzeench

Power Dice: 9
Dispell: 5 + 3 Dispell Scrolls

This is what i have so far, there is 74 pts spare.
my thoughts are:
Do i give the minotaurs Great Weapons as i seem low on things to take out heavy armour?
Do i upgrade the Bray-Shaman to lvl 2? (atm i only intend to use him to increace power dice, dispell and for the bear's anger on one of the wargors)

Also im not sure what weapons to give the characters:
due to the fact that i intend to use bear's anger when ever entering combat (although i realise this is nowhere near fool proof) i am reluctant to give the wargors magic weapons, should i simply give then an additional hand weapon or great weapon?
If i upgrade the shaman to lvl 2 should i take the Staff of darkoth, to me it seems as though it may come in useful.

What do u guys think? no models have been bought yet so no restrictions on changes. Im not convinced on centaurs, ogres, trolls or dragon ogres (dragon ogres because of high points cost) although any information on how to effectivly use them would be of great help.

Thanks in advance for your comments.

ST

Vam2tic
22-06-2008, 15:18
can wargors take dispel scrolls if they have the mark of tzeentch:eyebrows:

stwess
22-06-2008, 15:50
it makes them a wizard so is there any reason why not?

Menset
22-06-2008, 17:22
This might work, altough the most dice you will be able to use for Bears Anger is 2 the enemy will save dice for this and becuase Tzeench magic is normally unpredictable I would normally let the Magic Missles go through.

stwess
22-06-2008, 20:11
any comments on the options i talked about? or ideas to improve the list?

Shas'o Zor'bas
23-06-2008, 10:56
As I see the list and although I know little things about Beasts of Chaos I believe that the Minotaurs really need Great Weapons cause:
-they have an initiative of 4 that is not one of the best so striking last won't be a big problem
-they gain a strength of 6 (big deal against heavy infantry)
-they only lose an additional attack thing that isn't a big deal because the units they usually hit aren't big but tough.
-it doesn't cost too much

I would also recommend Centigors because they are Fast and strong enough to cause a headache to your enemy by killing warmachines and shooting units(don't worry about their cost because you can be converted by some Gors and horses)
of course its your choice and the list seems ok without the Centigors

A lvl 2 Bray Shaman is a good idea too as you play a Tzeentch list. It will make the Shaman capable of casting the bear's rage with 3 dice, giving u an extra power dice and taking an other spell

I believe you don't know that Chariots can take marks and that's why you don't give them a Tzeentch one. Just think about it, it's only 40 pts (20 for each) for 2 additional dice

Also, give a musician to your herds as they are made for combat and he will help the Ld disadvantage

Finally, Remember that your wargor general is not only a sorcerer and give him a Chaos Armour for 4+ save as it won't prevent him from casting spells and also either an additional hand weapon or a shield to boost his save further. Do the same for your other wargor but I'm not sure if you can have more than one Chaos Armours so try other combinations too

I hope this is of a help

stwess
23-06-2008, 16:28
I believe you don't know that Chariots can take marks and that's why you don't give them a Tzeentch one. Just think about it, it's only 40 pts (20 for each) for 2 additional dice

are u sure? i cant find an faq or ettera that says they can and it cetainly doesnt give the option in the unit information part of the army book.

The Red Scourge
23-06-2008, 18:17
I'd say your ratio of Gor/Ungors are askew. The ungors are there to fill rank and soak up shooting, and if you start losing your gors in CC, your about to get whooped anyways. On the same note, I'd give your herds musicians instead of the standards. Those standards are 100 VP giveaways, while a musician will perform just about equally in CC, while also boosting your rally checks (and beasts will flee during battle).

Definitely GW for the minos – only against skaven which lack heavy cavalry will you want additional hand weapons.

Marks for chariots is okay.

Think about a BSB – with the tzeentch mark you won't lose out on anything.

Personally I have soft spot for Dragon Ogres and Shaggoths. With GW you get that magical S7, and you can use your herds to set up bait and flee. Dragon Ogres are in every way better and cheaper than the Shaggoth, and can advance behind a skirmish screen of ungors.

You shouldn't need magical weapons. Tzeentch Lore is filled with magic missiles, so you should have the attacks you need. GW are cheaper and pack a good punch. Magical armor will serve you better – also you'd probably want to give The Goretooth and Staff of Darkoth a second glance (and yes, Wargors of Tzeentch counts as a Shaman).

stwess
23-06-2008, 20:19
what sort of ratio would you recommend for the gors/ungors?

Juicebox
24-06-2008, 00:05
Most suggest that you take more ungors than gors, but this is a really contentious issue. With more ungors, you get attacks from the second rank in melee and they aren't as expensive as gors. I've seen a 7/10 ratio a lot for bigger herds, and it would probably work pretty well, while 5/5 ratios are preferable for ambushing units (with musician and maybe, maybe foe-render). This could be a good way to go, two big herds and two ambushing herds.

As far as your list, you can never go wrong with a couple of units of warhounds. They're definitely one of the most useful units in the game, compounded by the fact that they are so incredibly cheap. You can use them to lure, screen, and otherwise mess with the enemy, let alone the fact that they actually break ranks. Seriously, couple units of five or six will work wonders and you could get them with your spare points.

If you're looking to be casting Bear's Anger when you get the chance, you should probably keep them with mundane weapons. However, since it's Remains in Play, I think that you could only Bear's Anger one of them, so you could give the other a magic weapon. That is, if you don't give the other the Goretooth (more later).

I agree with comments about a BSB, they really help especially when your army makes the skaven look brave (God I love the Beasts of Chaos).:D

Again, I couldn't agree more with the Goretooth and Staff of Darkoth stuff. They rock.

I would suggest this about your list overall:

- I'd drop one dispel scroll on a Wargor and give him the Goretooth. Run him in one of the big units.

- Drop the other Wargor's dispel scroll and give him the Dark Heart and stick him with another big herd and the Bray-Shaman.

- Bump up the Bray-shaman to level two, drop the dispel scroll and give him the staff of darkoth possibly with a power stone (to spring when you really need to get Bear's Anger or Wild Call off).

- Get two units of warhounds for general fun.

- More ungors, fewer gors (as much as it pains me to say it), and musicians for your herds.

It might sound like I'm suggesting a lot of changes, but I think that you have a really solid base for a good list.

Shas'o Zor'bas
24-06-2008, 11:18
I definatelly agry with Juicebox about the hounds. The are fast, cheap and can take many roles in the battlefield. I don't agry though with dropping the Dispel Scrolls. The army of Tzeentch gives a lot of power dice but few dispel dice so some dispel scrolls can make the difference.

Juicebox
24-06-2008, 13:31
Yeah, I'll admit dropping the dispel scrolls is a ballsy approach but here's my reasoning:

- I personally prefer going without dispel scrolls because I don't really like too many things in this game being a sure thing (seriously, my favorite armies are Beasts and Skaven). Also, I think people spam them way too much.

- With Staff of Darkoth and Dark Heart you should be spending less time out of melee anyway, essentially limiting the stuff that should be getting thrown your way.

- At 1500, how much magic power would you expect from most enemies? I think 5 dispel dice is quite a bit for 1500. Not overly so by any means, but sounds pretty good.

I can definitely understand if you would prefer to stick with at least one or two dispel scroll(s) just to have a trump card for when Conflagration of Doom gets uttered by your opponent. Though, it is pretty cool to see that devastate all those poor ungors! :D

stwess
24-06-2008, 20:31
ok, so after looking through the advice given and have played around with the list a bit.

Heroes
Wargor 161 pts
Dispell Scroll, Heavy Armour, Shield, Mark of Tzeench

Wargor 159 pts
Heavy Armour, Mark of Tzeench, Battle Standard Bearer (War Banner)

Bray-Shaman 160pts
Level 2, Dispell Scroll, Staff of Drakoth

Core Units
Beast Heard 123 pts
10 Gor, 7 Ungor, Foe-Render, Musician

Beast Heard 123 pts
10 Gor, 7 Ungor, Foe-Render, Musician

Beast Heard 80 pts
5 Gor, 5 Ungor, Foe-Render, Musician

Beast Heard 80 pts
5 Gor, 5 Ungor, Foe-Render, Musician

Tusgor Charriot 85 pts

Tusgor Charriot 85 pts

6 Warhounds 36 pts

Special Units
4 Minotaurs 204 pts
Great Weapon, Mark of Tzeench

4 Minotaurs 204 pts
Great Weapon, Mark of Tzeench


Power Dice: 10
Dispell Dice: 5 Dispell Dice + 2 Dispell Scrolls

im not entirly sure about dropping all of the dispell scrolls but if play testing turns out that only one is necessary as a back up then i could easily drop it and instead have 10 warhounds (2 units of 5)

any thoughts on the new list?

thx for the comments so far :angel:

Juicebox
24-06-2008, 21:35
I meant 7 Gors/10 Ungors. That could free up enough points to get you some chaos armor for somebody (any of them could use it).

Overall, I think its a pretty good list. I understand the dispel scroll backup, nothing sucks more than that one spell getting through right when you don't need it.

Good luck in the playtesting and tell us how it all worked out.

Shas'o Zor'bas
25-06-2008, 12:37
Good luck then. I like your list and it looks very balanced but only you are the only one that can judge that after the testing

skank
25-06-2008, 13:15
Save that last scroll for a magical charge that you really don't want to go off etc. I'm not a fan of scrolls but now i always take one.

Try for 2 units of 5 hounds or if you can't make it drop the 6th hound for chaos armour on your general/BSB. (or do it by swapping gors for ungors)
A unit of 6 hounds is no better than 5.

Don't think you need champs in the microherds, swap them for Mark of Tz on the chariots.

Like the list though anyway, should do well:).

Juicebox
25-06-2008, 13:36
Don't think you need champs in the microherds, swap them for Mark of Tz on the chariots.

The Champion raises their leadership from 6 to 7, which is a pretty significant difference when rolling for ambush. I generally take them in my ambush squads.