View Full Version : Brets vs DE, Help plz!

23-06-2008, 17:05
Hi everyone!

My friend and I just decided to play a game of warhammer against eachother. Since I'm mainly a 40k and LotR(love the system and models) player, I havn't played Warhammer for a long time. My friend however doesn't like either LotR or 40k so he's fully concentrated on Fantasy and his Dark Elves army. He says that I'm afraid to lose against him and that's because I don't play against him(I'm regarded as the best LotR player in town and he thinks I think I'm as good at playing Fantasy), but since I only play because it's fun and I mostly paint, that's not true. But now we have decided to take a game and I want to put a sock or two in his mouth...

Since I havn't played with my Bretonnians for a very long time, I'm a bit rusty both on the army building and tactics front. We agreed on 1000 pts since we don't have very much time and I know he fields mostly cavalry (Dark riders, Cold One Knights and even Chariots) Can you please help me with a list that can beat his filthy Dark Elven bums back to Naggarond?;)

Thank you /Artois

23-06-2008, 18:01
Well, your cavalry can all outcharge the CoK, so it shouldn't be a huge problem. Even if he does get a better position on you, you should have more cav units than he does, so you can bait and flee and counter-charge with another unit. I would also think that a skirmishing archer unit wouldn't be bad to take out the Dark Riders, who might be your biggest annoyance otherwise. Take this with a grain of salt though, because I don't play Brettonians.

23-06-2008, 22:34
Oh that sounds fun!

You could always be a nasty jerk and take a trebuchet and a pair of units of bowmen to complement your knights. They'll force him to come to you where you can set up traps using the terrain. (Or as pcgamer said: outreach him in charge, which will be easier if he comes to you.) The bowmen can take care of any flanking dark riders (Who are probably the most dangerous thing by marchblocking and stalling) and the trebuchet can make a nice dent in cold one knights or turn a chariot into firewood.
Pegasus knights would be awesome in countering the DE mobility, use them to create a "no dark rider" zone and perhaps use it to catch a chariot off guard? You don't want chariots charging your knights!
Maybe MSU for the knights? Several units of 6 to create multiple threats? Oh and have at least some knight errants to counter the "fear" of the cold ones, sure you outreach the enemy but if you don't dare charging they'll be the ones doing the charging.
Oh and does he arm his dark riders with repeaters? If not you could always use yeomen to counter his guys, since yours are cheaper and are armed with bows you kind of got him.

I feel positive about your chances. :)

23-06-2008, 22:36
***Wall of text incoming***

I would say that the Brettonian Vs. Dark elves (with almost only dark riders) is all about who is the best at judging ranges.

He has a slight advantage given that he have a movement of 9 and you have a movement of 8. (discounting both forces various flying things)

So he will have to setup either to the sides of your lances (but you can still wheel, so it is a bit triggy for him) Or be between 17-18" away. That is a distance that is very hard to guess correctly, unless he has a lot of practice at it. But if he is good at guessing ranges and can setup in the "sweet-spot" were you cant reach him, but he can reach you. I am sorry to say that you will not have a chance with a "normal" brettonian list.

And since it is alway better to have a winning plan yourself rather than dependin on him making a mistake. There is some choices that I think you should use that you may not normally look upon.

1. Skirmishing longbowmen. You pay next to nothing for them. And they will be absolute murder against darkriders. Who first of all only have a 24" ranged weapon. So your peasents should almost always be able to get 2 volleys off + a stand and shoot.

If you take 2 big units. (I would go for atleast 2*16, maybe 3*16) You can really do some damage to his dark riders. Who will win him the game for sure, if you do not manage to deal with them.

2. Knigh errant over knight of the realm.
No matter what kind of knights you hit him with the unit will die. So it might as well be the cheapest possible knights. (plus the fact that KnotR will still only hit on 4+, like Errant knights) And a maimum of 6 in each unit.
If you take bigger units of knights it will be way to easy for him to outmanouver your rather cumbersome lances. He gets up the sides of your lances rather easily, and if that first happens you are as good as toast. If you have more lances to cover each other he will not be able to go up the flanks of your lances. Since you will have an other lance positioned behind your first lances. Which you can do since you are taking minimum cost units, and therefor more of them comparet to 9+ sized units.

If you have say 5 units of knights. You can advance them like this.



------- ENEMY----------
(just noted the set-up didnt show as planned, the idea is 2 units in the middle front, with a good space between them, one unit between them but 8-10" behind and one on each side 7-9" out and again 8-10" behind,*sorta fixed now)

This leaves himwith basicly no uption but to go around to the sides. Since he can not just charge one of the 2 units in front. (since he will probably lose the unit he does it with next turn, no matter if he wipes the charged unit or not. And any good elf player will not send units out to their death, even if they kill something. Unless something very strange is happening)
Plus you have your 32-40+ Archers behind your knights, who will be in range of his dark riders if he goes around the flanks.

If you have played bloodbowl before, you have to imagine that you have to set up a form of tacklebox around your ball carrier. (In this case the glorious peasents with bows, who will be your mvp's) And just move your box around. Dont get it scattered out around the board. This will just lead to that the DE player gets the chance to do what they do best. Mutilating things that are alone. It is just something that elf armies tends to be frightenly good at. No matter how powerfull the thing that is running around on its own trying to win singlehandedly is, the elves will just in some way deal an unbelivebel amount of punishment in 1 turn. If it is shooting+magic, or a combined charge of half his army who is coming from each corner of the table with their 18" charge range.
You have to keep your army together. Or else it will just die 1 or 2 pieces each turn, without you having a chance to strike back. (of course you should send someone running our for his RBT's if you have the chance, but he dosnt seem to play with them.)

3. Your heroes.
I would not take a duke. But a lot of paladins. The only character in his army who wants to be in a challance is a Lord. And that is just 1 guy. Against anything else they will always live to strike back. Keep them cheap, very cheap. Like in no magic items at all. Because even with just s5 (from a GW) they will be absolutely brutal against dark riders. You dont need anything fancy to kill elves. Just something that gives you s5. Nothing else really matters. A single damsel with scrolls is more than enough in most cases. But if he his the tyoe who takes a Lvl 4 mage, I would go for 2 damsels with scrolls.

4. Pegasus knights.
Take 1 unit. If you take more you will limit the rest of your army. But they are really good against msu elves. And they have a 20" range compared to his 18" range. So if you are good at judging ranges they will be very good. I would keep them to the back, to avoid them getting shredded by x-bows, and on peasent guarding duty.


The rest: His coldones is hardly a threath, since you have higher movement than him. It is just about judging the 2" difference. Which is a bit easier at the slightly shorter 14" range, than the longer 18" range.

Monsters: Well you play with knights. What are knights famous for? Slaying big and dangerous beasts. They will have a blast against them. Even more if you go for a lot of cheap paladins.

I hope it helped.

23-06-2008, 22:44
Only 1000? Bah! Oh well... lets see what we can do...

Paladin (74)
BSB paladin w/ war banner, virtue of duty (129)
6 KoTR (144)
7 KE w/ full command (161)
6 KE (120)
21 skirmishing archers (147)
4 Pegasus knights (220)

Total: 995