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Pavic
23-06-2008, 22:53
Ok, so I have searched the forums and found no exact answer to the questions I am about to ask, although I think I found a somewhat vague answer to my charge question.

1. Unit A charges unit B, which flees past Unit C. Unit A then redirects it charge to Unit C. Assuming that unit A made no wheel to charge unit B, is unit A required to wheel to maximize base to base contact with Unit C (Assume that Unit C holds)? (Ignore the stars, I could not figure out how to get spaces to show)

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2. If a unit of Salamanders eats enough skinks due to misfires to cause a panic test, does this actually cause a panic test, and if so, which way does the unit flee if it fails the test?

I assume the test is necessary, as there is no indication otherwise, though fluffwise, the skinks prodding the Salamanders probably expect this to happen occasionally. In regards to direction, we played it as towards the nearest table edge, which seemed the most logical solution.

Godfiend
23-06-2008, 22:57
I'll let someone else tackle question 1, but as for question 2 I've heard a few times that it does NOT cause a panic test. If it did, however, towards the closest table edge would be a fine direction for it to flee. But again, I'm pretty sure it doesn't cause a test.

theunwantedbeing
23-06-2008, 23:07
1. Thats an enemy in the way charge that you are describing.

2. Nearest table edge.

Pavic
23-06-2008, 23:08
1. Thats an enemy in the way charge that you are describing.

So, I do get to wheel?

theunwantedbeing
23-06-2008, 23:10
Yes....as I said, it's an enemy in the way charge.

][nquist0r
24-06-2008, 02:08
If you have the movement to wheel you may/must wheel (unless you have already wheeled once in your charge) to maximize frontage. If you cannot wheel (Due to previous wheel or lack of movement) you must try to make the charge regardless. This can result in "clipping," a very unfortunate, but unpreventable result...

Nurgling Chieftain
24-06-2008, 07:12
Due to the FAQ, Enemy in the Way is handled slightly better than it sounds like in the rulebook. What I want to bring up specifically is that you don't actually move the chargers until their final target is decided. Thus, their one wheel will always try to maximize against the unit they charge. This does mean that the initial wheel to hit the initial target is sort of "virtual" - it definitely determines whether EitW gets invoked, but the actual move typically does not happen exactly that way.

whydiablo
24-06-2008, 10:40
So in this case, if unit "A" cannot wheel to maximize number (say 4 models) to charge unit "C", can I still charge unit "C"?

EvC
24-06-2008, 13:11
If C was the initial target, and is still a valid target when it comes to moving your chargers, then you still have to try and charge it.

Conotor
24-06-2008, 14:21
You never have to wheel to maximize. U just move over for free.

EvC
24-06-2008, 15:13
What? You always have to wheel to maximise (plus a free wheel to align), but you only ever slide if both players decide they want to.

Nurgling Chieftain
24-06-2008, 16:57
Thus, their one wheel will always try to maximize against the unit they charge.
So in this case, if unit "A" cannot wheel to maximize number (say 4 models) to charge unit "C", can I still charge unit "C"?"A" has to try to wheel to maximize models in contact, but it doesn't have to succeed - if wheeling more would mean you run out of move before reaching and the charge would fail, you don't have to.

Tykinkuula
24-06-2008, 17:39
2. If a unit of Salamanders eats enough skinks due to misfires to cause a panic test, does this actually cause a panic test, and if so, which way does the unit flee if it fails the test?

They don't test for panic, as panic is only caused by fleeing/destroyed frindly units or by casualties from ENEMY shooting.

EvC
24-06-2008, 18:04
You've just made up a rule, Tykinkuula. Go directly to jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200 ;)

Loopstah
24-06-2008, 18:44
They don't test for panic, as panic is only caused by fleeing/destroyed frindly units or by casualties from ENEMY shooting.

Or if it suffers 25% casualties. As that's the first option on the list I'm surprised you missed it.

Godfiend
24-06-2008, 20:55
Or if it suffers 25% casualties. As that's the first option on the list I'm surprised you missed it.

While it seems to be RAW that it causes a panic test, I cannot see how the developers possibly thought that causing a panic test from a misfire is a good idea. Even with cold blooded, that is only 50% chance to not panic.

Loopstah
24-06-2008, 21:09
While it seems to be RAW that it causes a panic test, I cannot see how the developers possibly thought that causing a panic test from a misfire is a good idea. Even with cold blooded, that is only 50% chance to not panic.

With 3 Salamanders and 9 Handlers you need to lose 4 handlers in one shooting phase to cause panic. Obviously as more get eaten you need to lose less each time before causing panic.

If I was a skink handler and I'd just seen 25% of my group get eaten by the beasts I was poking with a spear I'd panic too.

Godfiend
24-06-2008, 22:34
With 3 Salamanders and 9 Handlers you need to lose 4 handlers in one shooting phase to cause panic. Obviously as more get eaten you need to lose less each time before causing panic.

If I was a skink handler and I'd just seen 25% of my group get eaten by the beasts I was poking with a spear I'd panic too.

Unless I'm temporarily being really stupid, 9 + 3 = 12 * .25 = 3, which can be eaten in one misfire. If this can cause panic, then sallies are a lot more risky than they might seem at first.

And for fluff, why would the sallies run after eating some skinks? I see why the handlers might freak, but the giant lizards? They'd just keep eating stuff.

Pavic
24-06-2008, 23:59
Due to the FAQ, Enemy in the Way is handled slightly better than it sounds like in the rulebook. What I want to bring up specifically is that you don't actually move the chargers until their final target is decided. Thus, their one wheel will always try to maximize against the unit they charge. This does mean that the initial wheel to hit the initial target is sort of "virtual" - it definitely determines whether EitW gets invoked, but the actual move typically does not happen exactly that way.

Ok, so no matter what, if a different enemy is visible and within charge range after a unit flees, I can charge that unit and, assuming that they hold, must wheel to maximize.

EvC
25-06-2008, 00:14
All the other enemy unit has to be is within the path of your intended charge for you to declare an enemy in the way charge on them. If they do turn out to be in the way (even if the enemy didn't charge- it happens sometimes when you misjudge a charge), then yes, you can choose to charge that unit instead, and must try and maximise that charge :)


And for fluff, why would the sallies run after eating some skinks? I see why the handlers might freak, but the giant lizards? They'd just keep eating stuff.

So the handlers have freaked and have run away from the great big monsters who are trying to eat them. What do you think those same giant lizards that want to eat stuff are going to do while their meal is trying to get away? Perhaps they'd chase after them, you think?

If you're going to think about things in term of fluff, then do it right.

Nurgling Chieftain
25-06-2008, 00:18
Ok, so no matter what, if a different enemy is visible and within charge range after a unit flees, I can charge that unit...Oh, no, not at all. You can only declare Enemy in the Way and change your charge target if you'd otherwise hit that particular enemy unit with a normal charge move at the original target.

Pavic
28-06-2008, 01:19
Due to the FAQ, Enemy in the Way is handled slightly better than it sounds like in the rulebook. What I want to bring up specifically is that you don't actually move the chargers until their final target is decided. Thus, their one wheel will always try to maximize against the unit they charge. This does mean that the initial wheel to hit the initial target is sort of "virtual" - it definitely determines whether EitW gets invoked, but the actual move typically does not happen exactly that way.

I must have completely missed this post when I read the thread and I have to say that I was even more confused then when I originally posted until I read this.

So, if a unit flees from a charge I have to "imagine" the initial wheel (assuming the initial wheel was necessary). If this "imagined" wheel resulted in a different enemy unit being in the charge path to the initial target, then I could declare an enemy in the way charge. Assuming that this unit stands, I would not complete the first "imaginary" wheel toward the initial charge target, but wheel for maximum contact against the new target.

Is this all correct?

Lord Aries
28-06-2008, 02:03
Pavic... I think you are still thinking about 6th ed... in 7th, there is no "redirect your charge." they replaced it, with enemy in the way... which is VERY different. Grab that BRB and take a look.

Nurgling Chieftain
28-06-2008, 21:28
So, if a unit flees from a charge I have to "imagine" the initial wheel (assuming the initial wheel was necessary). If this "imagined" wheel resulted in a different enemy unit being in the charge path to the initial target, then I could declare an enemy in the way charge.Right. At this point, you have the option to either stop 1" away from the enemy unit you didn't declare a charge against - in which case you'd perform the initial wheel and move as far as you can - or declare a charge against the unit now in the way.


Assuming that this unit stands, I would not complete the first "imaginary" wheel toward the initial charge target, but wheel for maximum contact against the new target.That's correct. Again, I strongly recommend referencing the FAQ for any Enemy in the Way occurrences, because it's subtly but significantly different from the rulebook text.