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Kaos
24-06-2008, 20:46
Well im going to meet Daemons for the first time and i have no clue what im up against.. I created this list thinking that big chunky blocks backed up with "blockers" (monsters and chariots) and artillery might do the trick. And then i added some arrerboys and wolfriders with shotbows incase theres some frail T3 stuff to pop before they hit my lines.. I got some magic too, feels like it might be a good idea to have some extra bolts or help where my other stuff cant reach.

Im not sure if i should put the blorc bsb together with the general in his unit with big un savage orcs.. yes? no? Or is it legal to do that?

TACTIC: Units to soak up enemy or just smash them too pieces. block with chariots and monsters or add sidecharges if i can. Monsters and SOs are also good against fear and terror units. Anything that will be a threat that cant be taken down by sheer mass of units will be shot at and bolted with magic. Also some fast cav to sneak up on sides and help shoot up weak units and slow down marching.. Arrerboys will also work as detatchements or sacrifical troops.


What do you think?

Here goes:
WAAAAAGH !!!!

1 Savage Orc Warboss 210 Pts
Shagas Screaming Sword,Collar of Zorga(vs grtr demon), Kickin Boots

1 Black Orc Big Boss 175 Pts
Ha, BSB, Best Basha, Big Boss At,Boar

1 Night Goblin Shaman 135 Pts
LVL2 Dispel Scroll, Power Stone

1 Orc Shaman 145 Pts
Lvl 2 Dispel Scroll, Nibbla's Itty Ring

25 Savage Big 'Uns 380 Pts
FC 2 Choppas

30 Orc Boyz 210 Pts
FC Shield

25 Orc Boyz 180 Pts
FC Shield

2x10 Orc Arrer Boyz 60 Pts

2x5 Goblin Wolf Riders 65 Pts
Short Bow

2 Spear Chukka 80 Pts
Bully

1 Rock Lobber 75 Pts
Bully

1 Boar Chariot 85 Pts
3 Orc Crew

1 Wolf Chariot 60 Pts

1 Stone Troll 60 Pts

1 Giant 205 Pts

6PD 4DD 2250p

W A L 5 H Y
24-06-2008, 21:39
hey you got 80 combat infantry orcs there, i rekon you should put them into 4 20s it gives you another block which makes the army look bigger lol. But i like the army list its similar to mine! scarily similar apart from i have 4 blocks of 20 lol. But i like it and i think it will do well against deamons! Gd luck tell me how you get on!

lparigi34
24-06-2008, 21:45
Only one thing struck my eyes, so before keeping on reading, I mention this.

590 points on a General & Frenzied Unit??? Please, do not!!! :eek:

A small 80 points fast cavalry unit will lure you on a walk around the field for the whole battle!!, never-ever do that!.

Not meaning to be rude, but is not worthy to criticize the rest of it until you make this huge change.

Also, please, for proper observation by fellow gamers, post your tactics too, so we can gain and give more insight.

Just a tip, If you really are a Savages fan, think Boars and Boss on Chariot!

Malorian
24-06-2008, 21:47
Only one thing struck my eyes, so before keeping on reading, I mention this.

590 points on a General & Frenzied Unit??? Please, do not!!! :eek:

A small 80 points fast cavalry unit will lure you on a walk around the field for the whole battle!!, never-ever do that!.

Not meaning to be rude, but is not worthy to criticize the rest of it until you make this huge change.

Also, please, for proper observation by fellow gamers, post your tactics too, so we can gain and give more insight.

Just a tips, If you really are a Savages fan, think Boars and Boss on Chariot!


You have to remember too that this is against deamons, so they can't flee. So as l;ong as you watch out for small units of furries, whatever he 'baits' with is going to get smacked around pretty hard.

Kaos
24-06-2008, 21:50
Isnt every demon unit immune to psychology? If so they cant run away when i charge or lure them away.. if they dont plan on me overrunning by chopping up a unit then..

I went Savage Orcs just because i allways play blorcs instead with a blorc warboss, thought i could try something else this time.

And if i would meet something that could lure or such i will try and shoot it too pieces with magic and artiller plus bows if i can, or charge with a monster or chariot that reach further and block the way for the SO if its a plain trap.

lparigi34
24-06-2008, 21:51
Agreed, you got me, but still taking it off-position with cheaper stuff is still viable.

Kaos
24-06-2008, 22:01
Agreed, you got me, but still taking it off-position with cheaper stuff is still viable.

yeah this i know but i hope i will have enough tools to kill anything like that. or block with something else infront if i see them having furies or such as baiters.

Kaos
26-06-2008, 16:43
Allright i have now met the daemons and i got utterly beaten. My army crumbled before my eyes failing almost everything and my friend was on a high roll completing almost everything he tried. One of those days. We came to the conclusion that a rematch is a must before anyone can say anything because today my boyz were really hungover or something hehe..

I met a tzeentch/khorne/slaanesh army.

Oh, and some highlights were 2 failed animosity on my generals block of biguns two first rounds, giant getting splattered by 7 S8 hits (magic bolt deluxe), 4 wolfboys killing a TZ herald in a chariot..

Will meet him soon again, best of three i guess. :)

Conotor
26-06-2008, 19:11
U need some 25 night gobbo blocks to beat up greater demons.

Kaos
27-06-2008, 07:28
U need some 25 night gobbo blocks to beat up greater demons.

he didnt use a greater demon, he actually had a khorne daemonprince with killing blow, rerolling misses and rerolling to wound first round. Angry.

but i have the skullpass goblins ready for painting so i will have some when theyre done. :)

sephiroth87
27-06-2008, 14:14
1. Collar of Zorga is very iffy on whether it works on greater daemons or daemon princes.

Source: New Beastmen FAQ

"Does rune of the true beast affect monstrous characters (i.e. treeman ancients, greater daemons, shaggoth champions)?

No, they are characters. Note that this means a Shaggoth is affected, while a shaggoth champion isn't. A monstrous character is assumed to have the strength of mind and willpower to resist these sorts of things, while most other monsters are more mindless and instinctual in behavior."

While you can make your own interpretation, it caused an issue at my local game store. So I stopped using the collar of zorga against greater daemons and anything that is both a monster and character.

2. You need resilient characters and big, cheap units. Why, you ask? Because every daemon opponent grinds you down until they outnumber you, and then you run away due to the fear. Better to lose a cheap model and have lots of them rather than lose an expensive model and have nothing left. Basic orcs and a black orc warboss boss on a boar, with as much armor and ward save as you can give him will benefit you far more than savage orc big' uns and a boss with almost no armor. You HAVE to keep outnumbering daemons in combat so that you don't suddenly have to roll double 1's for your break test. If you can outnumber and use your character to grind down the unit, you stand a chance of winning the long combats that daemons always get into.

Also, I would consider giving up the magic phase against a daemon opponent, while putting the points into magic defense. Mork's Spirit Totem should be enough to hamper a modest magic phase, giving you more opportunities to get fighty characters that can lead your orc blocks and give them some higher leadership against the fear tests. If you still want some extra magic defense, take the night goblin shaman, upgrade him to a common goblin, and stick him in your wolf chariot. That should leave you another special slot to put in another heavy hitter unit with the points you saved from dropping savage orc big 'uns into regular orcs.

Kaos
27-06-2008, 21:48
1. Collar of Zorga is very iffy on whether it works on greater daemons or daemon princes.

Source: New Beastmen FAQ

"Does rune of the true beast affect monstrous characters (i.e. treeman ancients, greater daemons, shaggoth champions)?

No, they are characters. Note that this means a Shaggoth is affected, while a shaggoth champion isn't. A monstrous character is assumed to have the strength of mind and willpower to resist these sorts of things, while most other monsters are more mindless and instinctual in behavior."

While you can make your own interpretation, it caused an issue at my local game store. So I stopped using the collar of zorga against greater daemons and anything that is both a monster and character.

2. You need resilient characters and big, cheap units. Why, you ask? Because every daemon opponent grinds you down until they outnumber you, and then you run away due to the fear. Better to lose a cheap model and have lots of them rather than lose an expensive model and have nothing left. Basic orcs and a black orc warboss boss on a boar, with as much armor and ward save as you can give him will benefit you far more than savage orc big' uns and a boss with almost no armor. You HAVE to keep outnumbering daemons in combat so that you don't suddenly have to roll double 1's for your break test. If you can outnumber and use your character to grind down the unit, you stand a chance of winning the long combats that daemons always get into.

Also, I would consider giving up the magic phase against a daemon opponent, while putting the points into magic defense. Mork's Spirit Totem should be enough to hamper a modest magic phase, giving you more opportunities to get fighty characters that can lead your orc blocks and give them some higher leadership against the fear tests. If you still want some extra magic defense, take the night goblin shaman, upgrade him to a common goblin, and stick him in your wolf chariot. That should leave you another special slot to put in another heavy hitter unit with the points you saved from dropping savage orc big 'uns into regular orcs.

Hmm this is wise advice indeed and the collar is indeed iffy.. its in the twilight zone against greater deamons. When i get my night goblins painted i can throw them to their death infront of the nastiest so my orcs can chuckle at their deathcries muahaha...! I will wait using biguns for larger battles i think.. if i want ws4 s4 troops i will go blorcs as usual. Armor is KING! Lots of weapons is KING..ER!
I usually dont play magic at all, or a lvl 1 scrollcaddy or such but lately i have started to test stuff im not so sure about to see if its any point. Sadly with magic its not worth taking two lvl 2s in my opinion because everyone else is tooled up for worse magic phases and i can only get spells trough on a double 6..
Is putting a gobbo shaman in a chariot really worth it? US 5 sure but frail as a deep fried cat.

Kaos
27-06-2008, 22:52
Wich is best? A 30 block of Night Goblins with netters and 3 fanatics or two blocks of 20 with one fanatic each? Both have spears and shield since its the goblins from skullpass.. and full command.

the big unit is 250 points (yikes, expensive cannonfodder?) and the two smaller 125 each so its the same total..

havent played night goblins or against for ages so i really dont know whats the best deal.