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Eternus
25-06-2008, 09:27
Ok, here is what should be a simple question, but delving too deep may lead to madness and carnage. Or maybe it'll be a 'OPW' (One Post Wonder).

I fought a battle last night using my Vamps, and got a unit of Cairn Wraiths with a Banshee into combat with a unit of Ogres. The Wraiths charged into the Ogre flank. The Ogre Unit was only 3 models strong, arranged in a single rank.

O = Ogre
W = Wraith
:eek: = banshee


W
:eek:O O O
W

So what happens is this - in the shooting phase the Banshee manages to kill the only Ogre in base contact. My opponent tried to claim that the Wraiths and Banshee had to move up to the remaining Ogres, rather than the Ogres move to the Wraiths, which would bring the Wraiths into combat with a second unit. Now this is going on in the shooting phase, so there's no way another unit can be engaged in combat during the shooting phase.

Luckily another gamer was on hand to give an impartial decision that the Ogres had to move up, not the other way round, in a similar way to moving incomplete rear ranks into contact with an enemy unit.

This raised the question, with some thing unusul like an attack that works like shooting, but can be fired into combat, like the Howl, or whether there are any spells that work the same way, how is this meant to be dealt with? I think the way we did it was best, but it was a battlefield decision rather than a rules resolution. The problem is that the casualties are taken in the shooting phase, rather than the combat phase.

EvC
25-06-2008, 10:38
You should've just removed the Ogre that wasn't in contact in the first place.

If the Ogre in contact had to be removed, the combat would just continue with a bit of abstraction that turn then the Wraiths would move up to maintain contact. This would NOT allow them to get into contact with another unit however, as you can only get into combat by charging.

Eternus
25-06-2008, 10:47
You should've just removed the Ogre that wasn't in contact in the first place.

This was suggested to my opponent, but his intention was that, as the Ogre in contact had been removed during shooting, the units would no longer count as being in combat.

Condottiere
25-06-2008, 10:57
IIRC you can't shoot into combat, unless, by "accident" a war-machine lands ordnance on that unit. Models would still be removed from the back and the models in contact remain in contact.

Eternus
25-06-2008, 11:13
The Howl is not a shooting attack as such. It is used in the shooting phase, and casualties are removed as for shooting, but it can be directed into combat and doesn't need line of sight.

The rules for the Howl do specify that if mum.....I mean the Banshee, is in combat, the attack can only directed aginst the unit she is in combat with.