PDA

View Full Version : High Elves 2k



eleveninches
25-06-2008, 12:00
610: Prince (star dragon, vambraces of defence, enchanted shield, gem of courage, lance, dragon armour)
140: lv1 Mage (2 scrolls)
110: 10 Archers
110: 10 Archers
265: 8 Dragon Princes (standard, musician, banner of arcane protection)
140: Lion Chariot
140: Lion Chariot
128: 8 Shadow Warriors
300: 3x Repeater Bolt Throwers
50: Great Eagle

W A L 5 H Y
25-06-2008, 15:38
only one mage?? High Elves are amazing at magic so max out on it! Another thing your whole army needs the charge to get a good chance of winning the combats! I take a lot of infantry because you can then let the opponents infantry charge them because they always strike first. This means you can squeez in another turn of shooting them with bolts arrows and magic missiles! If i were you then i would exchange those chariots for some swordmasters and the shadow warriors for more archers or spearmen or somin but thats all!

Marwynn
25-06-2008, 16:20
Uhh yeah, this is a cavalry list that's meant to get up there and start smashing. It's similar to the UKGT winning list with some important differences. Telling him to drop the chariots and go for infantry changes the whole purpose of the army, as is going magic-heavy. And no, HE aren't amazing at magic unless the whole list is tailored to do it. We're not VC or Daemons here.

It looks like a tight list. I think though that you may find better use out of the Lion Banner than the BoAP but that'll be situational.

One thing you may want to give a try is getting a DP unit champion and giving him the Amulet of Light so he can deal with the various Ethereal creatures and the like. An alternative to the Scroll Caddy is to use a BSB of course, like the GT list.

If you drop 3 Shadow Warriors and find 10 points somewhere else you can get a BSB with the Banner of the World Dragon. That makes them totally immune to magic. With the Lion Banner in there too they'd be able to charge anyone.

Two baskets for all your eggs. Should be fun.

W A L 5 H Y
25-06-2008, 22:04
how can you say high elves arnt amazing at magic??? i mean most of the army lists i use can have over 10PD at least! and im sure he wont be playing VC or deamons all the time! that army list against a dwarf or empire gunline is going to get totally owned!! im not convinced the 8 heavy cavalry and the two chariots will always get up there and start smashing!! it doesnt have enough to take on a block army i cant see it beating much to be honest! the prince is going to have to carry that army all the way.

and i dont think elves have won GT in a while have they?

riven5
25-06-2008, 22:35
I would highly recommend turning that unit of Dragon Princes into two units of 5. You'll get a ton more maneuverability without sacrificing any hitting power. Plus enemies don't get to kill off your entire cavalry with a single lucky shot, or some other nonsense. If you really really really need to run just one unit of Dragon Princes, then reduce them down to 5, and spend the points you save elsewhere. You just don't need eight, unless you're planning on losing several before you get into the fight.

Would also recommend fitting the Armor of Caledor on your Prince. It'll only run you a few points once you remove the Enchanted Shield and the Dragon Armour. The difference between a rerollable 3+ AS and a rerollable 2+ AS is a big one considering how incredibly important he is to your army (IMO).

Rodman49
25-06-2008, 22:59
Knights are fire magnets riven, they need to be in units of at least 6+. Additionally Knight units are at greatest effect when they hit the enemy with at least 6 models . . . 8 is a good number . . .

riven5
26-06-2008, 01:46
You think? I use Dragon Princes every game, and I tried them once in a unit of 7. I figured I'd be getting shot up the whole way, but generally I found that avoiding enemy shooting and magic is quite simple. They are M9, after all! Plus they simply ignore flaming attacks, which makes them even more survivable. Now add in the Arcane Banner, which the OP did, and you've got a tough nut to crack.

Unfortunately the one (and only) time I ran 7 strong ended poorly for me; being a bit larger than my other unit, it got more attention, and was promptly destroyed. I'm just not sure I see the value in running 8 strong when they're throwing out 2 WS5 S5 attacks and 1 WS3 S3 attack a piece. These guys are some of the most potent cavalry in the game, and (relatively) cheap too! They aren't Brettonians; they don't benefit from the Lance formation, so ranking Dragon Princes doesn't hold any particular value that I know of. Plus I find a frontage of 6 is a little excessive, especially with the powerhouse charges of Dragon Princes. Two units of 5, IMO, will always afford you better results. YMMV.

Marwynn
26-06-2008, 05:21
how can you say high elves arnt amazing at magic??? i mean most of the army lists i use can have over 10PD at least! and im sure he wont be playing VC or deamons all the time! that army list against a dwarf or empire gunline is going to get totally owned!! im not convinced the 8 heavy cavalry and the two chariots will always get up there and start smashing!! it doesnt have enough to take on a block army i cant see it beating much to be honest! the prince is going to have to carry that army all the way.

and i dont think elves have won GT in a while have they?

Just recently actually, the UKGT... well not that recent. Star Dragon list.

Look at it this way, either the chariots and cavalry start smashing or they don't. Taking points away from that purpose will only dillute the end result and make it even harder. That said, I'd rather have 3 Tiranoc Chariots or more than 2 LCs, but 2 LCs have Fear so that's useful.

This is all about the Star Dragon. Everything else is going to give the other guy secondary worries and you might as well focus on a rapid approach because at least your opponent will split his fire and you can support your units.

Read again what I wrote about magic: "And no, HE aren't amazing at magic unless the whole list is tailored to do it."

You have to DEDICATE the list to magic. 10 PD is not something we HE can pull out that easily, 7-9 is doable with an Archmage and the Banner of Sorcery. It's not an afterthought. You can't tack it on.

His list is built towards using a Star Dragon and supporting it as it charges. Offensive magic is a secondary concern, the best he can hope for really is to cast Drain Magic and dispel two harmful spells as he closes in.

It's a giant throw of the dice.

eleveninches
27-06-2008, 14:42
Considering the amount of shooting I expect to face, I would never field my DPs in units of 5, as they need to be able to lose 2-3 models and still be a hard-hitting unit.

An alternative to the Scroll Caddy is to use a BSB of course, like the GT list. That was an option, but i thought that having magic res (2) on the dragon princes was good enough, saving 200-ish points that would have been spent on the world dragon BSB.

The dragon is the main unit, supported by the dragon princes and twin-charging lion chariots.

I have played this list twice now, and it has won one game (massacre) and drawn the other (90 VP difference).

One trick I like to do is to fly the eagle in front of a unit at a slight angle. Then the enemy can charge it and get flanked by my dragon in the next turn, or they can stay where they are and get charged by the dragon in the front

EvC
27-06-2008, 14:55
Yeah, should do the trick nicely. Some good combo charges there too. You really do need to fit the amulet of light in there somehow...

Why not armour of caledor on your Prince? Shield and Dragon Armour's 16 points or so, AoC will get you up to 2+ for just a few points more, might as well take it.

eleveninches
27-06-2008, 14:59
But then I cant fit the dragonhorn in. Either that or the skeinsilver are the items i would want.

And i never really saw the advantage of amulet of light, as there are really very few ethereal things in the game (wraiths, some HE mages, banshees) most of which can be beaten by CR

EvC
27-06-2008, 15:04
And what in your army has CR?

eleveninches
27-06-2008, 15:09
Not much static CR, but plenty from kills

EvC
27-06-2008, 15:12
...the point being, you won't be getting any CR from kills if the Wraiths hit any of your units. If you don't play many opponents with VCs then fair enough, but they're a really common army and you'll need the amulet if you face off against VCs every so often. Plus it's good for when you're fighting annoying Wood Elves.

eleveninches
27-06-2008, 15:17
It might be worth it. I jsut personally think that dragonhorn or skeinsilver will be more useful against most armies, but it's something to consider

Armilthuan
27-06-2008, 15:17
And that is the problem against ethereal creatures.

A unit of Wraiths or 2 or a pimped up Black Coach will cause your army trouble.

Also, one of the best Enchanted Items you can give the Lord is the Gem of Courage. You'll regret not taking it when you fluff your attacks (which will happen each game at least once).

If you have the Lion Banner on the Dragon Princes and 2 White Lion CHariots, fear/terror is not going to be as much of a problem as it usually is, so DragonHorn is wasted.

Also, there are quite a few benefits for going last, and against gunlines you are so fast you can hide a turn behind terrain.

eleveninches
27-06-2008, 15:26
I was going to take the GoCourage, but went for dragonhorn instead.

However, I think i might go for vambraces/dragon armour of caledor/gem of courage, as the lion chariots wont panic, and the DP's are Ld 9 IIRC

Armilthuan
27-06-2008, 15:38
That's what I was thinking. :P Sorry if it coma across as a bit demanding or snobbish... :P

Anyways, the GT list is a very good list and I won't mind if you would play it. If someone used that list against me, it could mean two things:

A: They think 'OHMIGOSH! That list won the GT, now I must play it!' Then people who know what they are doing will pull the list apart.
B: They see the potential and tactics that can be used with the list. It seems to me you are one of those people, you just need proper education of copying the whole list, because it is well thought out... :P

Hope to have been of your aid...

eleveninches
27-06-2008, 15:46
I did see a copy of the GT list, but I didnt want to use it as it was, because there are things I prefer to use. For example, I like to twin-charge my lion chariots, rather than just relying on one. And I didnt feel like paying 200 points for a BSB with BotWD when I could get a magic res (2) banner for 25 points. I also wanted some shadow warriors, as I havnt used them before

eleveninches
30-06-2008, 09:41
616: Prince (star dragon, vambraces of defence, gem of courage, lance, dragon armour of caledor)
140: lv1 Mage (2 scrolls)
110: 10 Archers
110: 10 Archers
265: 7 Dragon Princes (standard, musician, banner of arcane protection)
140: Lion Chariot
140: Lion Chariot
128: 8 Shadow Warriors
300: 3x Repeater Bolt Throwers
50: Great Eagle


Slightly edited to ge tthe dragon armour of caledor and gem of courage
Now has 2 wins (probably massacres) and a draw

WhiteKnight
30-06-2008, 16:27
You really need the dragon princes or the Prince with either amulet of light or the prince has a star lance. This is my typical dragon and prince.

Prince:Star Dragon, Dragon Armour, Shield, Star Lance, Vambraces of Defence = 627

I mean, do you really need a 2+ armour save when you have a 3+ save thats rerollable and a 4+ ward save. I mean a 2+ is good but it just consumes points.

Overall, I think its a good list. I personally think that the shadow warriors would work with the cav but if it has had two wins and a draw, you're already doing better than I usually do.

eleveninches
02-07-2008, 13:17
got another solid victory against ogres on monday. Its doing well so far. I might think of taking a list like this to the UK GT this year (either this army or a thorek army)

Usually put the dragon on the flank behind terrain and next to dragon princes. Eagle and chariots deploy behind terrain in the centre of the board. Bolt throwers on a hill with a unit of archers, and another unit of archers in the far corner.
Shadow warriors are for:
1. Not allowing enemy to scout close to my army
2. Scouting close to enemy warmachines so they can shoot in turn 1 and maybe even charge in turn 2.
3. March Blocking.

I've deployed almost identically in all my games so far, and have won 4 and drawn once (the draw was a rematch of one game that I won in turn 3)

Armilthuan
02-07-2008, 13:31
Good going. Hope you will do well at the GT. I wish you all the luck.

Be sure to practise against VC and Daemons to as they require different approacheshes than normally would be the case. Also, a mirror match (or a swap if no-one plays HE besides you)could learn you more about your army.

eleveninches
02-07-2008, 13:55
I can see that daemons and VC will be a problem, as you noted. Maybe not as much for the VC, as I will probably be able to kill the general, but daemons should be a problem. I can see that TK will be a huge problem.

Armilthuan
02-07-2008, 14:33
Tomb Kings can't touch you, unless they have a Bone Giant or big blocks of Tomb Gaurd, neither of which are easily seen on the tourny scene.

eleveninches
02-07-2008, 14:56
Tomb scorpions and chariots with lots of magic to move the chariots around hurts a lot!

Armilthuan
02-07-2008, 15:06
The only part of your army that has to fear scorpions are the archers and RBT. That's why the GT list used 2x10 Seagaurd so they can take a charge from a scorpion.

Your Lion chariots can also be daunted by the Chariots, but your dragon and Princes have not much to fear.

If you play it smart, only the dice rolls can screw you up.

Seriously, TK is in the pocket for you.