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ra1023
26-06-2008, 13:32
Hi

I got an idea of using 40 zombies plus a combat vampire to beat and outnumber my opponent and make them flee, while my fell bats wait just behind their unit to auto kill them. (the rules says fleeing into the enemy, the unit will be destroyed, right?)

will this tactics work ?

Condottiere
26-06-2008, 13:35
Yes, as long as the unit he flees into has minimum US 5+. And loses CR, doesn't cause fear/terror, etc.

Lord_Byron
26-06-2008, 15:19
No it will not. Characters may not join zombie units.

Oberon
26-06-2008, 15:44
The character could charge with zombies, not within zombies. If that character did not have loads of static CR and CR from kills, it would be a suicide as most of your enemies would be in contact with zombies, and gather some CR for themselves from there->crumbling vampire. I wouldn't charge _with_ zombies at anything I could not kill easily (a flank charge with a CR5+ regiment for example would be ok, while a single varghulf most often would not be), I've lost too many small units to crumbling zombies already :D

ra1023
27-06-2008, 07:45
how about large unit of skele with vamp then, plus the zombies on the side?

ra1023
27-06-2008, 07:47
what I am trying to work on is the idea of out numbering my opponent and make tham auto flee, with a unit waiting behind them. I understand I will have to win combat too to acheive this(thats why I get the vamp.).

Embalmed
27-06-2008, 08:11
The best way to achieve autobreak is IMO to front with a ranked unit and flank with a fast unit. 2 units will get you easy outnumber and you'll win on static CR.

Counting on one killy model is really chancy: even a powerful model will cause 0 wounds from time to time, and whatever unit you have behind isn't going to last if your trick fails.

ra1023
27-06-2008, 09:00
I see, thanks

ra1023
27-06-2008, 09:01
so, does zombie work well in huge units?

Malcador
27-06-2008, 11:45
Sure they do, just don't expect them to win anything. They are there to hold up enemy units until your flankers arrive, and then your flankers need to be something fierce (knights, not wolves), or else you will still lose. The beauty with zombies is that they are so easy to raise, it doesn't really matter if you lose about 6 zombies a turn, just make sure you have at least 30 before you charge in/get charged.

Tip: getting harged is better than charging. Just march them up to 1" away from an enemy unit. He now has to choose between charging them (and you summoning a boucket load of them next turn to keep them busy), or exposing your flanks and making the unit vulnerable.

Happy gaming!

Goose
27-06-2008, 22:49
Doesn't killing a zombie add to the opponents CR?

Yeah with zombies you will have a higher unit level, and if you flank (which you should be with something.) you negate ranks and get a bonus. Only zombies are so easy to kill. I feel like its just handing your opponent easy CR points.

I haven't played a VC game ever yet. Yet on paper I can't see them ever working.

Unless of course, I have Blood Knights or something equally brutal charging with the zombies.

Frankly
28-06-2008, 12:33
Sure they do, just don't expect them to win anything. They are there to hold up enemy units until your flankers arrive, and then your flankers need to be something fierce (knights, not wolves), or else you will still lose. The beauty with zombies is that they are so easy to raise, it doesn't really matter if you lose about 6 zombies a turn, just make sure you have at least 30 before you charge in/get charged.

Tip: getting harged is better than charging. Just march them up to 1" away from an enemy unit. He now has to choose between charging them (and you summoning a boucket load of them next turn to keep them busy), or exposing your flanks and making the unit vulnerable.

Happy gaming!

You 100% right on the money!!! Especially about gettting charged.

Another tip is to target your opponents core rank and file units( OR fast cavalry). Enemy unit that create alot of CR's through static CR's to win combat, like swordmen or marauders are great targets for your zombie units. Basically you shut them out of the game ... shutting out their static CR's from supporting your opponents elites.

You can do this with no point spent in the armylist, besides on your mages.

Oberon
29-06-2008, 11:44
The opponent has the chance to stop you from getting the new unit of zombies though, and it will be a small unit. If you buy the zombies in your list, thats one less core regiment you have to take, and 20 zombies headstart for a regiment capable of holding the enemy in place.

Frankly
29-06-2008, 22:55
Which is good advice and I do buy zombie units in my list, which are there to hold flanks.

But you CAN if you wise, try to raise a whole new unit on the table top.

Spamming zombies is soft work for your dice pool and its rare not to get any raises ... although it can happen. The big advantage of raising a new unit is its unforseen threat and its ability to delpoy is ways that ruins enemy units days and stops when moving effectively.

Oberon
29-06-2008, 23:34
IMO there are often better ways to spend your PD than to raise a new regiment of zombies (multiple tries if it is a important spot you are casting on, and if it isn't then why are you casting?), and then try to get it to sufficient size to hold at least 2 combat rounds without support. I play with 7-9 PD army, that kind of expenditure on raise dead and IoN (zombies) would be major part of my pool :/ ->I take real zombie regiment for combat (not winning, but holding), and only use raise dead for redirecting and never bulk those regiments up. If I had enough dice to get the new reg. up to 15 or something, and then vanhel it into position, then maybe, but no. My usual opponent wields 6-9 DD+scrolls...

Raise dead has its strong points, the redirecting-"trick" saved my main units against slaaneshi fast and rare daemons yesterday, and restored my faith in lore of vampires (I had experimented with forbidden lore for a while, and couldn't think of any other lore to use against daemons, luckily LoVampires is such a great lore).

Frankly
30-06-2008, 12:35
... I play with 7-9 PD army...

ahhh you see, I've go for a stronger dice pool and also grab as many bound spells as possible, so I've a lengthy magic phase that can suck dry my opponents dispel dice.

I'm really playng a summon horde type list so I get the luxury to keep on throwing power dice at the problem if needs be. ;)

But your right there is ALOT more to do in the magic phase than roll up zombies. Its a really effective aggressive lore of magic and relying on raising zombies won't win your wins alone.