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Reinier
26-06-2008, 16:48
I was wondering if you can select a character in a unit with Siren Song.

Think of a general on horse in a infantry unit, or a vampire in a skeleton unit.

Because characters are clasified as units and frenzy character inside normal unit have to charge without their unit support, i would say yes.

Please reply with written rules from the rulebook/Q&A.

blurred
26-06-2008, 16:51
I would say no just to keep the daemonic power from being more overpowered than it already is. ;)

Lord Inquisitor
26-06-2008, 16:59
Typically, a character cannot be singled out of a unit. If the description says "unit" and a character is within a unit, he is part of that unit and unless a spell or description specifies otherwise, he is affected just as with any other members of the unit.

Put another way, if you declare a charge with a unit, and the character is in charge range but the unit isn't, unless the character is frenzied, he is forced to fail the charge and stay with the unit, right? Thus the whole unit must be within charge range for siren to work.

decker_cky
26-06-2008, 17:07
I believe characters in units are not independent units until they leave the unit and are alone (or on a mount).

Cambion Daystar
26-06-2008, 18:04
Does it allow you to target a 'character' or a 'model'. If it doesn't specificly allow this, you can only target a unit, and not any individual models in it, as characters in units are part of the unit.

Lord Inquisitor
26-06-2008, 18:43
The reason that this is muddy is because Characters are allowed to declare a charge as a single model unit even if in a larger unit.

Loopstah
26-06-2008, 18:57
It's another example of the utter shoddiness of the daemon army book.

"Nominate one enemy"

T10
26-06-2008, 23:16
You get to target a unit, and the character is "part of the unit in all respects". That means that you can't target the character without also targeting the unit.

-T10

lparigi34
27-06-2008, 00:18
I thought that by now we were all already clear that a character + unit = unit, and characters could not be considered separately unless special rules allows for it (Lochland's, some spells, CC attacks or challenges)

Chicago Slim
27-06-2008, 00:33
As ever, T10 has the right of it.

See also, the "easter egg" rule.

Condottiere
27-06-2008, 04:20
You get to target a unit, and the character is "part of the unit in all respects". That means that you can't target the character without also targeting the unit.

-T10Is it like shooting then - five rank and file models and above? What happens if the unit model count drops below that?

BTW what is the easter egg rule?

lparigi34
27-06-2008, 05:10
You randomize the hits among the remaining models...

T10
27-06-2008, 08:16
No, it is not like shooting. Either the character has joined a unit and cannot be targeted separately, or he is on his own. The number of rank-and-file models or other characters is of no consequence.

-T10

sulla
27-06-2008, 09:19
Is it like shooting then - five rank and file models and above? What happens if the unit model count drops below that?



Even under 5 rank and file, you still don't target the character (aside from templates and cannons anyhow). You target the unit and hits can be either randomised or distributed onto the character as appropriate. Siren song does no hits. It could never be randomised onto a character (or champion).

EvC
27-06-2008, 12:03
Indeed. Pick a unit. You can't pick a character in a unit.

In case you're blind, Siren Song is powerful enough without needing extra edam ;)