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Deus Mechanicus
26-06-2008, 17:46
Hello, can severel characters join a single unit?

For example, can two Bretonnian paladins (the general and army battle standard) each join a unit of 7 Knights of the Realm (Making a total of 9 for lance formation)?

Gorbad Ironclaw
26-06-2008, 17:47
Sure. The only restriction is that characters can't join each other, but you can stuff as many characters into a single unit as you like.

Tarian
26-06-2008, 18:52
Yeah... last time I put multiple characters in a single unit, they both failed "Look out Sir!" from a very well placed Dwarven Grudgethrower...

Condottiere
26-06-2008, 21:45
Unless you have a specific role requiring both or more to be in close proximity (eg babysitter), keep them wide apart.

T10
26-06-2008, 22:24
Hello, can severel characters join a single unit?


Yes, though you should discuss with your local gaming circle how to deal with characers in a unit that suddenly finds itself without rank-and-file troops.

This problem occurs with surprising frequency when you put all your eggs in a single basket, but the rules offer nothing beyond the fact that you can't create a unit of just characters...

-T10

Condottiere
27-06-2008, 02:57
Yes, though you should discuss with your local gaming circle how to deal with characers in a unit that suddenly finds itself without rank-and-file troops.

This problem occurs with surprising frequency when you put all your eggs in a single basket, but the rules offer nothing beyond the fact that you can't create a unit of just characters...

-T10Generally speaking, I'd say they have to take a panic test, as well as any other unit within 6".:evilgrin:

T10
27-06-2008, 07:31
Generally speaking, I'd say they have to take a panic test, as well as any other unit within 6".:evilgrin:

Generally speaking, I'd say you have to read up on the rules for Panic, as well as the rules concerning character in units.

This distraction aside: It is commonly held that if a unit composition is illegal to create, then it is also illegal to maintain.

E.g.: A character on a monster mount joins a unit. The character is slain in close combat. What happens to the mount? is it immediately removed from the unit? Does it leave as soon as the combat is over? Does it remain with the unit?

The same thing applies to characters that run out rank-and-file troops.

-T10

Condottiere
27-06-2008, 07:50
Generally speaking, I'd say you have to read up on the rules for Panic, as well as the rules concerning character in units.-T10

This case applies if the unit has a US 5, basically 2 characters with 3+ rank and file members.:)

Condottiere
27-06-2008, 07:53
Generally speaking, I'd say you have to read up on the rules for Panic, as well as the rules concerning character in units.-T10

This case applies if the unit has a US 7, basically 2 characters with 5+ rank and file members.:)

Edited: or three cavalry models.

TheDarkDaff
27-06-2008, 08:58
There are also a few quirks you should be aware of that alot of people miss.

1. A character that is not in the front rank of a unit can not fight or use magic or magic items unless otherwise specified (like a Damsel). You also can't use their leadership (all on pg73).

2. The Standard will only give +1 CR if it is in the front rank. The Musician can also only take effect if in the front rank when a drawn combat happens (though you get the bonus to rally regardless of where it is).

3. If a Bolt Thrower shoots a unit and hits a rank that is entirely made of Characters (including Champions) then one of those models is hit at random. If the front rank of your lance Formation consists of 2 Paladins and the Unit Champ then one of those 3 models takes the Bolt Thrower hit with no "look out Sir!" roll as it is not a template attack.

Arnizipal
27-06-2008, 10:22
E.g.: A character on a monster mount joins a unit. The character is slain in close combat. What happens to the mount? is it immediately removed from the unit? Does it leave as soon as the combat is over? Does it remain with the unit?

I believe the Vampire Counts FAQ on ridden Corpse Carts says you need to put the unridden moster one inch from the unit away after its rider has been slain.

EvC
27-06-2008, 13:36
Ha, let's not go there. People have been getting very angry in some other threads at the idea of using stuff in the VC or High Elf FAQ to clear up other strange situations...

Azmazi
27-06-2008, 13:47
I would have to agree with T10, once the unit is dead, both characters are now on their own, and this has happened to me once. Ironically I have also had the unit only have 1 unit left with the 2 characters in front with it (which can be bad without anyone to throw in front of the character should something bad come lol).

But here is the bigger question, doesn't it sometimes quark you that you can't be in a unit, with say...5 in front rank, with 2 chars, and the 3 die and the Lord has to take a hit that you can't look out sir the other character (funny when you think about an evil army...HEY MINION, YOU TAKING THE HIT NAO!!!..."Ohhh god...why me...")

Tarax
27-06-2008, 19:35
To the OP: Why would you think you couldn't have 2 characters join a unit?

As long as there is no rule preventing something, it's allowed.
(This works most of the time, but I take each case individually.)

Griefbringer
27-06-2008, 19:46
As long as there is no rule preventing something, it's allowed.


Actually, it is the other way around: you can only do something if there is rule allowing it.

As an addendum, if you are allowed to do something, then you can do it under all conditions where there is no exception disallowing it.

Tarax
27-06-2008, 20:01
Actually, it is the other way around: you can only do something if there is rule allowing it.

As an addendum, if you are allowed to do something, then you can do it under all conditions where there is no exception disallowing it.

Nowhere in the rules does it say 2 (or more) characters can join the same unit. Is it allowed? It doesn't say so. Is it not allowed? It doesn't say that either. As it is not not allowed, it is allowed.

(BTW Griefbringer, this has nothing to do with the topic, but could be a different issue. Let's not take this further here.)

As I said, I take each case individually.

Griefbringer
28-06-2008, 08:10
Nowhere in the rules does it say 2 (or more) characters can join the same unit. Is it allowed? It doesn't say so. Is it not allowed? It doesn't say that either. As it is not not allowed, it is allowed.


Actually, the important thing here is that according to the rules, a character is allowed to join a friendly unit.

Then there are some exceptions to certain types of characters and units that prevent joining under certain conditions. However, there is no exception for another character having already joined the unit.

So, because joining units in general is allowed, and there is no exception regarding units that already have a character in them, joining a unit that already has a character in it is allowed.

skank
28-06-2008, 10:21
Griefbringer has it right. A character can join a unit and becomes part of that unit, you can chose to do the same over and over as you move character as there is no stated limit.

The BRB cannot list everything you cannot do, that would be impossible , just what you can.

LemanRuss
28-06-2008, 10:54
hey guys all very interesting stuff.
i just wonder

if 2 characters are in a unit, a wizard and a warrior priest.
and the wizard gets challenged can the warrior priest accept just like a unit champion can do so?

it would make sence seeing as the priest is an even greater champion and the protector of the weak.

EvC
28-06-2008, 11:01
You don't challenge a specific opponent, you do a general challenge. So the Empire player would can accept with whoever he wants- Priest, Wizard, unit champion.

Griefbringer
28-06-2008, 12:09
EvC stated it correctly - the challenge is not against any specific model, but can be responded by any champion/character in the unit.

(Fluffwise, a particularly zealous warrior priest might deem it more appropriate to burn the witch at a stake, but that it another issue. :cool: )

TheDarkDaff
28-06-2008, 12:17
Just to clarify. A challenge can only be accepted by a model that is actually fighting in the combat. So if you managed to get just the wizard in Base to base contact and the Warrior priest and Champ are not in base contact then only the Wizard can accept the challenge (pg77, BRB). I have to say that i missed this a few times myself.

Tarax
28-06-2008, 14:09
Actually, the important thing here is that according to the rules, a character is allowed to join a friendly unit.


So true, let's not waste any more words on the matter. ;)


Just to clarify. A challenge can only be accepted by a model that is actually fighting in the combat. So if you managed to get just the wizard in Base to base contact and the Warrior priest and Champ are not in base contact then only the Wizard can accept the challenge (pg77, BRB). I have to say that i missed this a few times myself.

That is correct. In some cases it's better not to challenge as the intended target may decline, so preventing you from killing him.

Conspyre
28-06-2008, 16:54
That is correct. In some cases it's better not to challenge as the intended target may decline, so preventing you from killing him.

I have had even more trouble with the Vampire Counts sending out Skeleton champions over and over again to meet challenges... The overkill keeps my heroes from being stabbed to death by combat-tuned Vampires, but it does prevent anyone from launching a credible attack on the Vampire himself. Challenge targeting is Serious Business.