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Grus
27-06-2008, 07:55
I played my first 1000 points WE against dwarfs yesterday and have a couple of questions. Since I am very new to the game I pretty much followed what my opponent said regarding rules etc.

First a short and easy question can dwarfs be marchblocked? My opponent claimed thay could always march regardless of they were 1 inch away from my units.

At one point in the game a unit of 12 dryads charged a unit of 10 dwarf warriors (6 in the first line including thane BSB) 4 in second rank. Dwarfs had 2+ armour save but the dryads killed two dwarfs on the charge and dwarfs killed one dryad. Now to CR. Dwarf player claimed to have runes with the following effects: Immune to fear and terror, extra attacks on the BSB, a rune that makes each model counting as two models resulting in +2 rank bonus as well as outnumber (making the second rank complete and adding a third rank), a rune that added +1 CR. In combination with +1 CR for standard and +1 from BSB dwarfs won combat and broke the dryads who ran 8 inches. Dwarfs pursued 10 inches (rolled 11 on two dice -1 for being dwarfs)and killed them.

Later in the game a treeman charged the same dwarfs in the flank (only making base to base contact with the BSB) and at the same time 2 remaining glade riders attacked from the rear making base to base contact with the now single dwarf in the back rank. Treeman made two wounds (hitting on 4+, wounding on 3+ an armour save of 5+ due to S6 attacks). Dwarf player removed two regular dwarfs including the dwarf in the back rank thereby making the glade riders making the glade riders make contact with the front rank. Glade riders failed to do anything useful. Dwarfs killed one glade rider and missed all attacks against the treeman. Dwarfs win combat due to runes and standards. WE mess up their rolls and break from combat. Again dwarfs roll high on pursuit and kills them.

I have a strong feeling that we did not do things correctly but as I said it was my first game except for trying out the battle for skull pass box.

Loopstah
27-06-2008, 08:11
1) Dwarfs can always march and don't get March Blocked.

2)There is a banner rune that makes a unit immune to fear and terror.

There is also a banner rune that adds +1CR.

There is a banner rune that doubles the unit strength of the unit. This does not allow you to add CR for non-existant ranks but does give you +1 CR if it means you then outnumber the opponent.

The BSB couldn't have extra attacks as if he had the above banner runes he couldn't then take a runic weapon or other runic items.

EDIT:
3)Forgot about incomplete ranks. You would have had to allocate attacks against the BSB as the dwarf in the rear rank would also be in btb.

WLBjork
27-06-2008, 08:14
First a short and easy question can dwarfs be marchblocked? My opponent claimed thay could always march regardless of they were 1 inch away from my units.

Dwarfs cannot be machblocked. Terrain and spells still slow them down however.


At one point in the game a unit of 12 dryads charged a unit of 10 dwarf warriors (6 in the first line including thane BSB) 4 in second rank. Dwarfs had 2+ armour save but the dryads killed two dwarfs on the charge and dwarfs killed one dryad. Now to CR. Dwarf player claimed to have runes with the following effects: Immune to fear and terror, extra attacks on the BSB, a rune that makes each model counting as two models resulting in +2 rank bonus as well as outnumber (making the second rank complete and adding a third rank), a rune that added +1 CR. In combination with +1 CR for standard and +1 from BSB dwarfs won combat and broke the dryads who ran 8 inches. Dwarfs pursued 10 inches (rolled 11 on two dice -1 for being dwarfs)and killed them.

That doesn't sound right. If they were basic warriors, then all the Runes had to be on the BSB. If the BSB takes a Runic banner, he cannot take any other runic items, so:

Rune of Courage - Immune to Fear and Terror - yes
Extra Attacks on the BSB - no (would have to come from a runic weapon)
Rune of Battle *or* Master Rune of Stromni Redbeard - Rune of +1 CR - yes

That leaves the Rune of Stoicism. This rune simply doubles US. It does not magically increase the number of ranks.

So, as I read it:

Dryads score 2 for kills, 0 for ranks (as they are skirmishers) for a total of 2.

Dwarfs scored 1 for kills, 0 for ranks, 1 for outnumber, 1 for standard, 1 for BSB and 1 for the rune for a total of 5.


Later in the game a treeman charged the same dwarfs in the flank (only making base to base contact with the BSB) and at the same time 2 remaining glade riders attacked from the rear making base to base contact with the now single dwarf in the back rank. Treeman made two wounds (hitting on 4+, wounding on 3+ an armour save of 5+ due to S6 attacks). Dwarf player removed two regular dwarfs including the dwarf in the back rank thereby making the glade riders making the glade riders make contact with the front rank. Glade riders failed to do anything useful. Dwarfs killed one glade rider and missed all attacks against the treeman. Dwarfs win combat due to runes and standards. WE mess up their rolls and break from combat. Again dwarfs roll high on pursuit and kills them.

If you did not specify you were attacking the BSB, then that was correct, as the treeman was also considered to be in contact with the Dwarf in the rear rank (see page 36 of the BRB - close combat & incomplete ranks).

So the CR should be:

WE: 2 for kills, 1 for the flank (Treeman is US5+ right?) for a total of 3.

Dwarfs: 1 for kills, 1 for outnumber, 3 from banners and standard for a total of 5.

Oh, and only one unit could get wiped out from that combat. The dwarf player should only have pursued one unit (see page 44 of the BRB). In this case, though, as the Glade Riders had only 1 model left, that could be ignored (units reduced to below 25% of starting strength cannot rally, page 19 BRB) and the Treeman pursued (and presumably caught).

T10
27-06-2008, 08:55
Indeed: Doubling the unit strength does not allow you to count models twice for purposes of establishing ranks.

Also notice that when you are engaging a unit in the rear and that unit has an incomplete rank, you still count as being in contact with the models further in.

In effect, engaging the enemy in the rear does put you in the position of fighting fewer models.

The illustration is an approximation of how the original situation should work. The treeman has engaged the dwarf unit on the flank, thus the model in the rear rank is moved into base contact. The glade riders are positioned outside the dwarf unit's "square" but is still in contact with the four Dwarfs directly ahead (they need to maximise the number of models fighting, and the two dwarfs on the flank are already engaged.

Wether or not the glade riders should be moved into contact is up for debate, but the position would be correct had there been a 1-4 more dwarf models available.
-T10

TheDarkDaff
27-06-2008, 13:38
WLBjork gets it almost perfect. The only mistake i can see in his explaination is that Dyrads are skirmishers so they never get a rank bonus.

WLBjork
28-06-2008, 08:00
That's what comes of not being overly familiar with the WE rules, and not having the book.

I'll correct my first post to cause later confusion :o