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Azmazi
29-06-2008, 03:22
Vampire Counts 7th Edition Revised Tactica

Introduction: With the new 7th Edition book, we are seeing a trend moving away from the original five bloodlines. Now the concept of the Blood Dragons, Necrarchs, Strigoi, Lahmians, and Von Carsteins are more or less merged. The new book revolves more around the actual Von Carstein's for the fluff/lore of the story. With the vampire abilities now being mixed into a selection of "make your own" vampire. With this the trend of having to be all casting, pure melee is now blurred. A lot of the original concepts in the army has remained the same. Armied of mass undead, with now the complete removal of all alive units.

Heros:
Vampire Lord: The Vampire Lord is the centrepiece of every Vampire Counts Army. He is the most flexible and most valuable lord choice. He isnít quite the same uber lord as the previous book, as the Lord is now what originally was the Vampire Count.

The Vampire Lord has the ability to take both 100 points in magic items and 100 points in blood powers, instead of the original 100 in both in the older 6th edition. The disadvantage is there is no options for purchasing any mundane equipment at all. This is the most treacherous thing when considering the allowance of 200 points. You might end up with a great weapon at the price of 20 points. The lack of an option to purchasing a non set suit of armour also forces players into spending some of the allowance to gain a piece of equipment which is not worth the points invested. This has led to unsurmountable fits of rage when facing the poor choices of magic weapons for a vampire lord. The magical suits of armour are also in a certain way below average.It is most advisable to spend 50 points on upgrading him to being a level 3 wizard there is not a single game this would not prove to be helpful. The additional dice granted by this are invaluable. As this isnít just an additional power die, it also adds an additional dispel due to him being in the lvl 3-4 bracket.

Mounts:
Nightmare: Standard Steed

Hellstead: This mount seems to be very reluctantly used. Being able to fly is a rather good option, but not being able to hide in a unit is less commendable. Hence why with an old 40k rule, of not using a vehicle unless you have 3, I find this to be the same with the VC in hellsteeds as in donít use a hellsteed unless youíre using at least three.

Abyssal Terror: A bargain on itsself this mount is very nice indeed. Although i have no experience in using it myself there seems to be no reason to hesitate using it at all. (Winding). I personally do not prefer the Abyssal Terror, as for its cost I find that youíre better off paying the small extra and getting a Zombie Dragon for the additional breath weapon, better toughness, and the higher US. Not to mention should you decide to use it a breath weapon; however, you pay for this option by getting rid of a hero selection.

Zombie Dragon: A viable option for its cost. The cloud of flies adds a distinct touch of safety in close combat. Although with only a 5+ armor and one less wound it is an undead model. Keeping in mind the option to regaining wounds lost by any means is most helpful.

Vampire: Considering the impressive stats of this hero caster he surely is a good bang for your buck. Extremely flexible and with 100 points of gear at his disposal the vampire is a worthy hero choice. His ability to allow marching within 6" is a new very helpful feature that is not to be underestimated. While being expensive as a low level caster he is easily upgraded to level 2 at a nice price. In addition there is the obvious the master skills that grant a decent raising option plus a most acceptable bonus on casting invocation. But these rather good options do no good to the points left after having geared this one to its maximum. As a result some players do not use every hero slot they are invited to use. The disadvantages as the same with the Vampire Lord, are there are no options for purchasing any mundane equipment at all. This is the most treacherous thing when considering the allowance of 100 points. You might end up with a great weapon at the price of 20 points. The lack of an option to purchasing a non set suit of armor also forces players into spending some of the allowance to gain a piece of equipment which is not worth the points invested. This has led to insurmountable fits of rage when facing the poor choices of magic weapons for a vampire lord or hero. The magical suits of armor are also in a certain way below average. This even forces some vampires into the second line of battle in order to allow them to survive their supporting deeds. This may not mean demeanor for one vampire, but surely it should not apply to more than one. So far the vampire is invaluable in many ways but it is also vulnerable in many ways.

Nightmare: Standard Steed

Hellsteed: This mount seems to be very reluctantly used. Being able to fly is a rather good option, but not being able to hide in a unit is less commendable. Hence why with an old 40k rule, of not using a vehicle unless you have 3, I find this to be the same with the VC in hellsteeds as in donít use a hellsteed unless youíre using at least three.

Battle Standard Bearer: Beside of strong competition by the less vulnerable Wight King there have been some Vampires that would bear this standard although his stats are no match for the Wight Kingís, this is done by having access to powers and items alike. On the other hand it will give to you a strong liability in terms of points invested into this model. Nevertheless the battle standard vampires seem to do well at a very high price.

Wight King: Ascending from 6th edition with increased point costs and the vampire heroes being casters in a heavy magic army the Wight King shows his value in enhanced toughness and an additional wound. The big advantage of coming out of the can with heavy armor and a shield does a lot of good to him. This is going to be very helpful when bearing the battle standard. Also the Wight king does have killing blow by himself. Thanks to his stats he is a worthy adversary in challenges even for a mediocre hero choice and poses a threat even to the most heavily armored units. In likeness he is actually a lot like the Tomb Kings, Tomb Prince in stats now. He has some options like to take a Great Weapon, Lance, the Battle Standard, or an additional hand weapon. Over the options most tend to either go with a mounted skeletal steed with barding and lance, or for popular use the hw/shield combo (Many also like to take the sword of kings for the 5+ killing blows). The skeletal steed option also opens up new terrain handling by allowing them to ignore terrain for the sake of movement. The overall disadvantage of the Wight king is the fact heís not a vampire for marching purposes (however he can still march as he is an independent character if heís alone that is), he isnít a caster, and that even thought he is the most cost effective choice is limited in his full potential.

Necromancer: Very popular in 6th Edition as a supporting spell caster and scroll caddy the necromancer now performs his duty as a small support wizard being limited to level 1 in its capabilities. For a mere 55 points a viable new scroll wearer has emerged, but none the less he has a awful lot more to offer. The disadvantages are being unable to gain a magic level by means of purchase is quite a setback. Only the somewhat helpful arcane item section is able to better this disease but there is no cure. The extra dice that could have been generated by this would have had the ability to ensure the decisive van Hels dance macabre to be cast. Besides this matter of fact it is most useful to spend another 15 points on an additional spell. Usually players prefer van Hels Dance macabre to upgrade their mobility and/or damage output in a fashionable way. Although cast on 7+ this spell is still manageable to a necromancer because he may use dice out of the main pool.

Being able to ride in the Corpse Cart, a new choice in the vampire counts book this non chariot mount provides you with the miasma of deathly vigor this presents you with a enormous new way of using magic in its supporting role. Proving adjacent units with first strike until your next casting phase without being remain in play there is no better bound spell to be found in the entire book if you wish to depend strongly on magic skills. As it also allows you to cast the spell and move the cart, as it is cast on the cart itself meaning at the end of the magic phase all units around the cart get its bonus. The Corpse cart also has to upgrade options. Balefire is one of the options the corpse cart can take. Balefire is added for its splendid ability to cut down enemy wizards and easing dispel attempts by giving them a -1 modifier on all their casting rolls within 24 inches. Some players would even have two necromancer geared like this when facing heavy enemy magic. The Unholy Loadstone isnít an option most take and I do not advise it due to the fact it only gives you one additional wound for each casting of Invocation of Nehek within 6 inches of the cart. This also excludes models with the Vampire ability.

Nightmare: Standard option of a move 16 steed. For the costs however its usually more advisable to place the Necromancer in a cart for protection reasons along with a cart that can regenerate.

Core:
Zombies: Unlike our previous edition, zombies are now the primary risen unit of the VC. Meaning that you can no longer create new units of Skeletons as you could before. Zombies are also now a cheaper unit by 2 points per model, but pay for this with their lowered stat line (One of the lowest in the game, next to Gnoblars). You also cannot take a min. unit of 10, as now the unit Minimum is 20 with the maximum unit size removed. Zombies can also no longer be joined by characters. The Braindead rule has been replaced with shambling horde, as this now means you no longer can persue enemies, instead dealing hits based on the number of models and how many ranks.

Skeletons: Skeletons overall received a face lift by combining some of the point costs into the units by giving them off the back light armor, shields, and hand weapons. Meaning no longer having to spend points to bring them up to a base value. This overall cheapened the cost of the units allowing a larger base size. Skeletons can also no longer be created as new units, to reflect their new points cost. However they can have their units size increased with a new vampire power known as "Lord of the Dead". The unit's overall command is cheaper now as well. Their stat line didn't change much at all which is a good thing reflecting their new lowered costs. Minimum unit size is still 10, with the maximum unit size removed.

Crypt Ghouls: Ghouls are no longer a skirmishing unit, which is something most of us VC players will miss. With this replacement they are now undead and no longer living. The Minimum unit size is 10 instead of the original 5, and the maximum unit size is removed. Ghast upgrade (Champion) is also now cheaper making it a more viable option. Ghouls have still retained their T4 stat and poison, making them a very popular choice. Also unlike the previous edition you can now raise more of them with the new Summon Ghouls power.

Dire Wolves: The wolves retained their fast cavalry, but lost their slavering charge (no more +1S on the charge). They dropped in price being only 8 per model which was nice, however they no longer count towards your minimum core choice requirements. Their leadership was also cut in half. Dire Wolves still have a 5-20 unit size requirement. The Dire Wolves unlike previous edition can be raised back from the dead with the Summon Creatures of the Night Vampiric blood power.

Bat Swarm: Bats received a major boost by dropping their points cost per base down by 25 points. They still retain their maximum flight movement of 10 inches, swarm, but are no longer alive and are now also undead. They also had their Ld. dropped from 10 to 3. lost a wound, and an attack off their profile, and no longer are counted towards your required core choice selection.

Corpse Cart: A new unit in the VC army. the Corpse cart is a chariot but does not follow the rules as one, and is considered a monster. A Necromancer may ride in one as if it were a chariot as well. The Corpse Cart can join units with a necromancer. It has an armor save as if it were a chariot, along with regenerate. It has a bound item spell allowing all within 6 inches to ASF. It can take 1 of two upgrades. Balefire allowing all enemy casters within 24 inches of the cart a -1 to their casting roles. Or they can take the Unholy Lodestone which allows all units within 6 inches of the cart to gain an additional wound if Invocation of Nehek is casted upon them. Excluding Characters and Vampire Units.

Special:
Grave Guard: Whatever you might have thought about these guys in 6th edition they now are back with a lot of improvement. With their good stats and decent armor we found them in many armies of the last edition. Now they can be revived at a dice or two these crack infantrymen have done a lot of good for the vampires. They lost their ability to take both shields and halberdís, but instead now get shields for free and can exchange them for great weapons for 1 point per model. They can either be set as a 3+ save in CC, or as a 5+ with S6 hits. Either way they are both still deadly with their Wight weapons giving them killing blow. The only downside for both the Black Knights and the Grave guard is the Banner of the Barrows was toned down a bit from being an always 3+ to hit in CC to only a 1+ bonus. Most will tell you to take a full command as its worth it, also many feel that the great weapon option is a must take (Winding) however I feel the 3+ can also make for a serious hard to kill unit in CC supported with a melee vamp now more so that they can be raised back with IoN (Invocation of Nehek).

Black Knights Despite still having a really ugly range of models these cavalrymen are purchased or converted and valued throughout the gaming community. Obviously some gamers still prefer high movement over all other values. With their mostly very adequate stats and good armor these heavy cavalrymen strongly suffer from their inability to march on their own power, as this has been mended by having more vampire units in the army black knights seemingly made their way back into 7th edition. But they have been put on second place in combining damage output and speedy swiftness. Only the insubstantial steed rule now keeps them in the more balanced forces. They are still effective cavalry with s6 and killing blow despite their lower WS. They ability to revive them one at a time also helps them from the previous edition. They are often used as center pieces of an army, or in small groups for flanking from behind cover into rears and flanks using a spell like Vanhelís to get them into combat. The increased cost in barding and overall unit cost has made people take fewer numbers, or without barding. Regardless of opinion, barding still confers a -1 movement pen. but does not remove insubstantial steed bonus.
Some prefer either a full command or none at all for these units.

Fell Bats The bats are the most mobile and speedy special unit given to vampire counts players. These gifted hunters of war machines and single wizards are a good bang for your buck. They can even be increased in size by a vampire suited to this task. By these means no blame will fall on them for having average stats. Fell Bats have no real disadvantages except for being Undead. (Winding). I personally do not agree with this, as I feel that being that they are a too expensive for what they are, and do not perform as well as I would like them too.

Spirit Hosts Ethereal creatures are a very nice addition to a undead army. Spirit Hosts posses respectable stats at a adequate price. A real drawback is the minimum unit size of 3 Bases, but they can be slowly put back together again by using invocation. The required size 3 has turned many players away as many originally used unitís of 2 bases for flanking purposes. They are still effective none the less. They are effective in put in a flank or rear of a unit to negate rank bonuses on units without magic weapons, as this allows you to tie up an enemy unit. They are effective against certain armies, but against others they take a major beating, examples. Great against Empire, bad against Deamons of Chaos.

Rare:
Varghulf This new vampire found its way into 7th edition at a good movement with regeneration and a most respectable stat-line. Allowing other units to march within 6" does add a great deal of mobility to the adjacent units. The hatred has done a lot of good to it as well. Very high price in comparison to especially tomb scorpions, prone to going down to flaming attacks the Varghulf is a somewhat popular target as it has no armor at all. The bestial fury rule has not been of any use to me at all so far. After 10 games with the Varghulf it was abandoned swiftly and with style. I personally feel the unit is a hit or miss for different armies. Depending on the type of army it can be good or bad. I feel it works well with armies with a lack of melee characters to join in combat with good units, but bad to try to run solo with (except to hunt down warmachines and the like.)

Cairn Wraiths A new unit with a lot of old faces. These Etherealís combine shooting and close combat power in one unit. As skirmishers the minimum size unit does well with the champion upgrade at 25 points. Just like spirit hosts they are perfect for some tasks but do fail at others. They are very useful at holding flanks thanks to their well equipped and good stat-line wraiths and banshee. The downside is the high price tag for the minimum size unit.

Blood Knights These ferocious warriors are the apogee of excitement when it comes to totally destroying anything. A unit of five will certainly abolish everything in its path.
15 Attacks at S7 and WS 5 are nothing to sneeze at especially including the s4 steeds attacks right after. The frenzy drawback can be overcome by using dire wolves in a certain manner. But the price tag weighs heavy on them. At T4 and a mere 2+ armor save they need some extra protection against the heavy shooters. This will increase the expenditure once more so this is a unit to appear just once per army. It will provide some extra movement for being a vampire unit. Frenzy and the units champion must always issue a challenge and always accept. Plus it is very expensive to have it are the downsides.

Black Coach An admirable armor save and a ward save may give sufficient protection against small arms fire, but against some adversaries she is not very useful. The downside is its expensive, inefficient, and eats your power dice at the worst times.

Azmazi
29-06-2008, 03:51
Items and Combos
Standards
Banner of the Dead Legion: Very good on a unit of black knights. A unit of 6 will now outnumber most infantry regiments and you'll need only 2 knights for a flank or rear bonus. Helps ensure opponents flee when you beat on the charge. Also useful for units that could be stuck in the center of combat against large blocks of forces.

Icon of Vengeance: Not overly attractive but since virtually everyone in the army now has ground hugging low Ld it can be very handy on a unit without a character leading it. It becomes much more attractive at low point games when you can't afford a lord level vampire.

Cursed Pennant of Mousillion: Far from the best of banners but if you plan on being sneaky and are likely to face elves then it can prove very amusing. A banner that doesn't give away any VPs is worth it in my book (Elves in particular don't hold onto it long). Best used on a small unit of skeletons that would otherwise need a lot of bulking up through invocation. Also saw someone with their BSB use this banner. Ironically I personally thought it wasn't the greatest but it saved him a lot of points when his BSB died in a combat and the player dropped the banner.

Standard of Hellish Vigour: Great if you're playing very large or very small games and want a flanking unit to operate far from the rest of the army. (A unit of skeletons or black knights put down first on a flank to mess with enemy deployment. If the enemy ignore it then they will get a nasty flanking unit mid-game.)

Screaming Banner: Not the greatest banner, but can be useful against armies they are not immune to fear but don't have many issues with them. Armies like Lizardmen and the like come to mind in this regard.

Banner of the Barrows: Not quite as amazing as it used to be in the previous 6th edition. It still is quite useful in a unit of black knights or Grave Guard. Also good with a Wight King due to him also getting a bonus from the banner.

Banner of the Endless Nightmare: Good banner for units of skeletons that are being used a primary tarpit. The extra +1 from ranks means you can get the unit to a size of 30+ and enjoy the additional staying power.

Standard of Everlasting Death: This is one of the few banners I personally don't feel is really worth it. I can see in a large point game you could give a unit this but in all reality if it was like a 2+ one less wound it would be more worth it, but a 4+ means its a 50% chance for 15 points.

Banner of Hellfire: Very useful when you need to get a unit with magical attacks. Amazingly this banner is extremely useful against Tomb Kings and WE alike thanks to their weaknesses to fire.

Royal Standard of Strigos: Amazing banner for units like Blood Knights, as hatred can really help the characters and the blood knights themselves get rerolls for failed hits. Especially being that also the mounts are hatred.

The Drakenhof Banner: Being used a lot by players today, its mainly coupled with large blocks of grave guard with great weapons and with a character in the unit. This banner is expensive, but when you couple it with a banner of the barrows in a unit of grave guard with great weapons, it makes for a hell of staying unit especially if you place your lord in it as well to take full benefit of the regeneration.

The Flag of Blood Keep: Mainly used for larger units of blood knights to help keep them from being shot to death by shooty armies. Most would argue that its increased cost over the original Banner of Doom wasn't as worth it even for the +4 over a +5.

Magic
Necromancy Spells
Invocation of Nehek
Raise Dead
Vanhel's Danse Macabre
Lore of the Vampires
Gaze of Nagash
Curse of Years
Wind of Undeath
Summon Undead Horde

Windings of a snake
29-06-2008, 22:51
Is this meant to collect all inputs and then put together or is it intendet to gather thoughts on these topics per individual?

Windings of a snake
29-06-2008, 23:17
There we go:

Vampire Lord:

The Vampire Lord is the centrepiece of every Vampire Counts Army. He is the most flexible and most valuable lord choice.

With the ability of having access to 100 points of magic items and vampiric powers the vampire lord is what you want him to be.

It is most advisable to spend 50 points on upgrading him to beeing a level 3 wizard there is not a single game this would not prove to be helpful. The additional dice granted by this are invaluable.

Options:

Nightmare: providing the rider with some addtional armour is not the main reason for purchsing it, at those points this movement enhancer is not a cheap option.

Hellstead: this mount seems to be very reluctantly used. Beeing able to fly is a rather good option, but not beeing able to hide in a unit is less commendable

Abyssal Terror: A bargain on itsself this mount is very nice indeed. Although i have no experience in using it myself there seems to be no reason to hesitate using it at all.

Zombie Dragon: A viable option for its cost. The cloud of flies adds a distinct touch of safety in close combat. Altough with practicly no armour and less wounds it is a undead model. Keeping in mind the option to regaining wounds lost by any means is most helpfull if you wish to find a proper judgement on this one.

Disadvantage: There is no options for purchasing any mondane equipment at all. This is the most treacherous thing when considering the allowance of 200 points. You might end up with a great weapon at the price of 20 points. The lack of an option to purchasing a non set suit of armour also forces players into spending some of the allowance to gain a piece of equipment which is not worth the points invested. This has led to unsurmountable fits of rage when facing the poor choices of magic weapons for a vampire lord. The magical suits of armour are also in a certain way below average.

Azmazi
30-06-2008, 05:55
Is this meant to collect all inputs and then put together or is it intendet to gather thoughts on these topics per individual?

As put together, meaning summerized based on many different sources. This way new VC players have something to better understand the different options and the like.

I will update it more tomorrow as I will have more time to devote to it.

AngryAngel
30-06-2008, 06:53
A good job done thus far, and I look to the revised pages being finished. As a relatively new VC player. I find the options and discussions very helpfull, I've found the inputs invaluable in making purchase choices. Though honestly, I tend to buy alot of everything. I love variety.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 09:35
Necromancer:

Very popular in 6 th Edition as a asic spell caster and scroll caddy the necromancer now performs his duty as a small support wizard beeing limited to level 1 in its capabilities.
For a mere 55 points a viable new scroll wearer has emerged, but none the less he has a awfull lot more to offer.

Let us take these options into consideration closely

Corpse Cart:A new basic choice in the vampire counts book this non chariot mount provides you with the miasma of deathly vigour this presents you with a enormous new way of using magic in its supporting role. Proving adjacent units with first strike until your next casting phase without beeing remain in play there is no better bound spell to be found in the entire book if you wish to depend strongly on magic skills.

Balefire:Onto the corpse cart ridden by the necromancer mostly balefire is added for its splendid ability to cut down enemy wizards and easing dispel attempts. Some players would even have two necromancer geared like this when facing heavy enemy magic.

Unholy Loadstone:Corpse Carts are usually not equipped with this option, but there have been some new experiences gained with this one and they are quiet nice. But still the balefire proves stronger. And with an eye in the keyhole on numerous armies with spells beeing cast on 3+ or 4+ the balefire cart has gained the standard place in the average infantry army.

Nightmare: This option has never been utilised by myself another player may find the movement incease usefull, but it is in no way any chance of increased armour protection.

Disadvantages: Beeing unable to gain a magic level by usuall means of purchase is quiet a setback. Only the somewhat helpfull arcane item section is able to better this disease but there is no cure. The extra dice that could have been generated by this would have had the ability to ensure the decisve van Hels dance macabre to be cast.

Besides this matter of fact it is most usefull to spend another 15 points on an additional spell. Usually players prefer van Hels Dance macabre to upgrade their mobility and/or damage output in a fashionable way. Although cast on 7+ this spell is still managable to a necromancer because he may use dice out of the main pool.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 09:54
Vampire: Considering the impressive stats of this herocaster he shurely is a good bang for your buck. Extremly flexible and with 100 points of gear at his disposale the vampire is a wothy hero choice. His ability to allow marching within 6" is a new very helpful feature that is not to be underestimated. While beeing expensive as a low level caster he is easyly upgraded to level 2 at a nice price. In addition there is the obvious the master skills that grant a decent raising option plus a most acceptable bonus on casting invocation. But these rather good options do no good to the points left after having geared this one to its maximum. As a result some players do not use every hero slot they are invited to.

Options:

Nightmare: providing the rider with some addtional armour is not the main reason for purchsing it, at those points this movement enhancer is not a cheap option.

Hellsteed:this mount seems to be very reluctantly used. Being able to fly is a rather good option, but not beeing able to hide in a unit is less commendable.

Battlestandard bearer: Inspite of strong competition by the less vulnerable wight King there have been some Vampires that would bear this standard although his stats are no match for the wight Kings. This is done by having access to powers and items alike. On the other hand it will give to you a strong liability in terms of points invested into this model. Nevertheless the battlestandard vampires seem to do well at a very high price.

Disadvantages:There is no options for purchasing any mondane equipment at all. This is the most treacherous thing when considering the allowance of 100 points. You might end up with a great weapon at the price of 20 points. The lack of an option to purchasing a non set suit of armour also forces players into spending some of the allowance to gain a piece of equipment which is not worth the points invested. This has led to unsurmountable fits of rage when facing the poor choices of magic weapons for a vampire lord or hero. The magical suits of armour are also in a certain way below average. This even forces some vampires into the second line of battle in order to allow them to survive their supporting deeds. This may not mean demeanour for one vampire, but surely it should not apply to more than one. So far the vampire is invaluable in many ways but it is also vulnerable in many ways.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 10:14
Wight King: Ascending from 6th edition with increased point costs and the vampire heroes being casters in a heavy magic army the Wight King shows his value in enhanced toughness and an additional wound. The big advantage of coming out of the can with a heavy armour and a shield does a lot of good to him. This is going to be very helpfull when bearing the battle standard. Also the wight king does have killing blow by himself. Thanks to his stats he is a worthy adversary in challenges even for a mediocore lord choice and poses a threat even to the most heavily armoured units.

Options:

Great weapon: At a high price and demanding on foot use this weapon is not the primary choice.

Exchange shield for additional hand weapon: This also appears not to be the most valuable solution.

Lance: As a matter of fact this option is far more in use then those priorly mentioned. Combing the lance with the already present armour and a barded skeletal steed provides an excellent hero choice at low cost. In case of running him as bearer of the battle standard a lance will complete the model in terms of damage output.

Mount: Skeletal Steed with barding: There is no such an improvement of armour and movement like this and it is getting even better as this grants you superior terrain handling.

Disadvantages: It lacks the adaptability of a vampire and is no caster at all. This may fail its entrance in an army inspite of being most cost efficient and able to sustain heavy damage. To further hesitation in use there is a dire need of a vampire to enable his full movement potential.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 10:37
Special:

Grave Guard:

Whatever you might have thought about these guys in 6th edition they now are back with a lot of improvement.

With their good stats and decent armour we found them in many armies of the last edition. Now they can be revived at a dice or two these crack infantrymen have done a lot of good for the vampires.

At a reduced price these are a impressive unit espacially when considering their options and the access to many usefull magic banners. Powerfully equiped with awesome great weapons they may even cut a fully armoured knight in two pieces. Even with a defensive hand weapon and shield combination they pose a threat due to the ability of slicing heads from a torso.

Options:

Full command: Almost used each and every time these 30 points are a good investment.

Great Weapons: In my personal opinion this is a "yes please option".

Disadvantages: There is not a lot bad to say except for not being a cheap unit at a feasable price. They still do well in terms of bang for buck but they are not cheap, plus they are infantrymen. Still they are used with great pleasure by veteran gamers as they are now revivable.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 12:21
Black Knights:

Despite of still having a really ugly range of models these cavalrymen are purchased and valued throughout the gaming community. Obviously some gamers still prefer high movement over all other values. With their mostly very adequat stats and good armour these heavy cavalrymen strongly suffer from their unability to march on their own power. As this has been mended by having more vampire units in the army black knights seemingly made their way back into 7th edition. But they have been put on second place in combining damage output and speedy swiftnes. Only the insubstantial steed rule now keeps them in the more balanced forces. Their competition with the Knights of the blood Keep is not to be monitored just by means of damage.

Black Knight are a very enduring S6 cavalry that suffers greatly because of its mediocore weaponskill. Now they can be revived one at a time, thus making them a better choice than they have been before. Their new role might be found in smaller numbers but of equal importance. Oftenly used in small groups to attacking rears and flanks with the assistance of the invaluable van Hels danse macabre. Still on line are the magical attacks and of course the killing blow skill.

Options:

barding at 4 points each: Increasing the cost of this option by 100% means in no way the end of being viable, but players tend to use smaller units because of this so redirecting them to a new task. In addition there is still discussion about the movement penalty.

Full Command: Good for larger units espacially with the banner granted. Smaller units could be kept cheap enough by not purchasing it.

The new black knights are still in tone with the orchestra but they are by no means a mainstay for a magic heavy army.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 12:28
Fell Bats:

The bats are the most mobile and speedy special unit given to vampire counts players.
These gifted hunters of war machines and single wizards are a good bang for your buck.
They can even be increased in size by a vampire suited to this task. By these means no blame will fall on them for having mediocore stats. Fell Bats have no real disadvantages except for being undead.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 12:38
Spirit Hosts:

Ethereal creatures are a very nice addition to a undead army. Spirit Hosts posses respectable stats at a adequat price. A real drawback is the minimum unit size of 3 Bases, but they can now be slowly put back together again by using invocation.

Superbly performing if used against chariots and monsters without magical attacks these ethereals are prone to going down against daemons of chaos. So they are specialists in terms of dealing with some armies. On the other hand they are not to be the mainstay of the special category. They are to be used in a balanced force. Here are some nice things they have done for me:

flanking a steamtank in round three and keeping it bound!

Charging rears and flanks with van Hels danse macabre, this is done quiet easily with their fairly good movement of 6".

Knocking down expensive high elf infantry with low soft scores. 12 Swordmasters with no magical attacks did get beaten up by them within short time.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 12:46
Varghulf:

This new vampire found its way into 7th edition at a good movement with regeneration and a most respectable statline. Allowing other units to march within 6" does added a great deal of mobility to the adjacent units. The hatred has done a lot good to it as well.

Disadvantages: Very high price in comparison to especially tomb scorpions. Prone to going down to flaming attacks the varghulf is a somewhat popular target as it has no armour at all. The bestail fury rule has not been of any use to me at all so far. After 10 games with the varghulf it was abandonded swiftly and with style.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 15:46
Cairn wraiths

A new unit with a lot of old faces. These ethereals combine shooting and close combat power in one unit. As skirmishers the minimum size unit does well with the champion upgrade at 25 points. Just like spirit hosts they are perfect for some tasks but do fail at others.

Extremly usefull against other non daemon skirmishers these are the hight of exitment when it comes to hunting stegadons, ogre kingdoms and stuff alike. Their movement of 6" is also very usefull. They do of course need a vampire unit to enable this swiftnes.

Disadvantage:

There is a quiet high price tag attached to this unit even in minimum size, just like the spirit hosts these should not be in exclusive use!

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 15:56
Blood Knights:

These ferocious warriors are the apogee of excitement when it comes to totally destroying anything. At a horrid price of 70 Euros and 55 points these mounted vampires are a whirlwind of death. A unit of five will certainly abolish everything in its path.
Looking at 10 Attacks at S4 by the greater nightmares, there is more to come with the knights themself. 15 Attacks at S7 and WS 5 are nothing to sneeze at.
The frenzy drawback can be overcome by using dire wolves in a certain manner. But the price tag weighs heavy on them. At T4 and a mere 2+ armour save they need some extra protection against the heavy shooters. This will increase the expenditure once more so this is a unit to appear just once per army. It will provide some extra movement for being a vampire unit.

Disadvantages: Frenzy and ugly models plus expensive as hell. The units champion must allways issue a challenge and allways accept. Plus it is very expensive to have it.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 16:04
Black coach:

Whoever has come up with the evocation of death had a bad nights rest. It is most useless as it eats more of your dice then your enemies.A chariot at the price of an astounding 200 points is absolutely horrible. An admirable armour save and a ward save may give sufficient protection against small arms fire, but against some adversaries she is not very usefull. Also does the chariot only give limited movement support to adjacent units as it is unable to march. Until now i played her about 5 times and she was of praticly no more use than a chariot at half the price.

Disadvantages: Expensive, inefficient, slow, eats your direly needed power dice.

EvC
30-06-2008, 16:20
I wish I could disagree with you on the Black Coach, but despite using one in nearly every 7th edition game I've played, I still haven't found it overly useful. But then I do manage to fail any and all savs that will see it destroyed in one go...

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 16:23
Magic weapons:

Most veteran players are thrown into fits of rage when considering these weapons because there is nothing above average except for one item.

Frostblade: This weapon would do nicely with no armour saves allowed. But as it is right now there is no proper use for it. Even adding +1 S would have been most sensible and given it at least a chance in comparison.

Dreadlance: Nice price tag, nice combos, but it is for mounted chars only. Still the best weapon available.

Black Axe of Krell: Too expensive and risky on a hero

Blood Drinker: At 40 points it lacks power. Either +1S or at the very least armour piercing would have been adequate.

Skabscrath: the worst of them all. practicly no use at all. The ability should not be on a weapon.

Sword of Kings: Very nice and decent weapon for a wight King and a good reason to use a wight King. The price is most reasonable.

Tomb blade: Not expensive but of no use without skeletons. It would only be usefull with a vampire at S5.

Balefire spike: excellent bang for your buck, avoid high elves.

Magic armour:

Mostly overpriced or no good bang for your buck, these are a collection of somewhat usefull items.

Walach s bloody hauberk: While being bloody expensive this armour provides a ward save and a armour save in one item. I did never use it and hope not to be using it. Still it would be good for a vampire BSB.

The accursed armour: While a catastrophe on first sight a wight King could manage to put it to good use if there would not be better options to keeping him alive. Combine with helm of commandment of avampire and there you go.

The flayed hauberk: Whilst everybody of decent origin has a better armour save at the same price this suit is quiet ok as it leaves you with a chance of combining it with other items. Bitterly enough human and dwarves pay the same for a better save.

Armour of night: Usefull only to a certain extend a vampire could make good use of it on his own and maybe there could something in for him as a scout. For general use this item is of secondary choice.

Nightshroud: see armour of night. Vampires in a unit can not put it to proper use. Giving it to an necromancer means throwing it away or overlooking the necromancers combat weaknes.

The cadaverous cuirass: Although very nice it is of secondary meaning.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 16:46
Enchanted items

Overall good performance and nice price cost.

Hand of Dust: At 50 points the hand of dust still is nothing to sneeze at in a heavy magic army. Use it with avampire and you might have a decent hero caster. Still it would appear to be very expensive.

Rod of flaming death: Just like the hand of dust it is good but to expensive.

Helm of commandment: The best echanted item VC can get. Zombie at W6 or W7 are awesome. Use it with the BAnner of burrows on wights and give them great weapons.

The cursed book: Still a viable option for a lord choice the cursed book is a good protection for that decisive round.

talisman of lycni: M9 at ten points is mostly a gift from above.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 16:56
Talismans:

Usually a source of ward saves something went terribly wrong.

The Carstein ring: At 75 points Vlad should have taken into his grave when he might have been killed. Superbly useless.

Crown of the damned:Although this direly neede ward save grants stupid there is no other option. It must be employed on either a wight King or even better the vampire lord.

Wristbands of black gold: Usefull to vampires mounted on Hellsteeds and of course abyssals and Dragons.

The gem of blood: Nice but also very usefull to a wight king with the sword of kings.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 17:07
Arcane items:

Skull Staff: Expensive but viable. I would have loved to see the bonus on casting as a single item in trade for some reduction in price.

Staff of damnation: Expensive and of no real use at power level 3. The power level of those items should be 4 on all of them to balance the cost.

Book of Arkhan: The same is true for this book but slightly less expensive and containing a excellent spell this finds its way into some armies.

Sceptre of noirot: At first glance it looks good, but as you can not use it to increase unit size later on there is no use for it at all.

Crimson Gem of lahmia: power stones are the better bang for your buck and do not take away wounds you need to heal with dice.

Black periapt: Cheap, usefull, flexible and stylish. I do not leave my tomb without it.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 17:21
Magic Standarts:

Some good some worse some depressing

The Drakenhof Banner: Expensive but usefull with a Wight King BSB in a larger unit of Wights with great weapons. But it is nearly not affordable.

The flag of the Blood Keep: Knights of the blod keep only.It is expensive and it is not going to be used on a BSB.

Banner of Burrows: Whilst not very cheap it is awfully usefull to any unit of wights and Black knights. Love it with wights and great weapon and helm of commandment.

Screaming Banner: one of the most useless at 40 points. At 25 it would have suited a unit of skeletons

Royal Standard of Strigos: Use this with blood knights...!
A fair price for a good banner, remind youself of pursuing...!
Apart from that it is of general use and may appear in some armies.

Icon of Vengeance: I never saw a VC army win after the Vampire Lord died. So there is very limited use.

Banner of the dead legion:If you can not outnumber your opponent with raising and summoning something wentr awfully wrong.

Cursed pendant of mousillion: Even after more than twenty games i found no use for this banner at all.

Banner of endless nightmare:the second warbanner of a second unit of skeleton warriors. Not bad but war banner is better all the way at the same price.

Standard of hellish vigor: This standard has never ever seen use. It just is not good enough.

Standard of everlasting death: Same as standard of hellish vigor.

Banner of Hellfire: Very nice bang for your buck. Avoid high elves.

Windings of a snake
30-06-2008, 17:30
Vampiric powers:

spectral form: At 50points and these limitations i can not see any general use.

Ghoulkin: Superbly done power. cheap and efficient but on the other hand it might be a little to cheap. Great power.

Supernatural Horror: Nice, but there is other more usefull stuff to purchase. A good general use but just secondary in terms of demand.

Master of black arts: The best skill you can get shoulder to shouldrer with red fury.

Forbidden Lore:If it would be more affordable it might be used more frequently. Very nice flexibility.

Dark acolyte: Also a very usefull skill. Combine with Master of black arts on a vampire lord.

Darkangeldentist
01-07-2008, 00:29
Some nice advice Windings of a snake, however I find your dismissal of some items unfair.

For the banners;

Banner of the undead legion: Very good on a unit of black knights. A unit of 6 will now outnumber most infantry regiments and you'll need only 2 knights for a flank or rear bonus. Helps ensure opponents flee when you beat on the charge.

Icon of vengence: Not overly attractive but since virtually everyone in the army now has ground huggingly low Ld it can be very handy on a unit without a character leading it. It becomes much more attractive at low point games when you can't afford a lord level vampire.

Standard of Mousillion: Far from the best of banners but if you plan on being sneaky and are likely to face elves then it can prove very amusing. A banner that doesn't give away any VPs is worth it in my book (Elves in particular don't hold onto it long). Best used on a small unit of skeletons that would otherwise need a lot of bulking up through invocation.

Standard of hellish vigour: Great if you're playing very large or very small games and want a flanking unit to operate far from the rest of the army. (A unit of skeletons or black knights put down first on a flank to mess with enemy deployment. If the enemy ignore it then they will get a nasty flanking unit mid-game.)

Black coach: It can make a great march helper for your infantry regiments and the evocation of death is very good at the higher end of the scale. Still one of the toughest chariots in the game and now has decent damage potential. 5 S4 attacks in addition to impact hits mean, if you have scythes and hatred, it can tackle infantry regiments head on. High cost hurts but good armour and ward save mean that it's can take a lot of punishment. I've had it flank charged by a unit of saurus and it survived long enough for me to flank him!

For the bloodline powers;

Spectral form: Expensive and limiting since you can no longer buy magic items but very good if you want to keep spending down on the characters. Best used in conjunction with forbidden lore to give all sorts of spell combinations that will make him a nasty combat prospect. Lore of beasts is my favourite but lore of light has the evil option for pha's illumination and invinicibility! Field him in a unit of cairn wraiths and you have a very good all purpose unit. (Don't forget to take a banshee for challenges!)

Windings of a snake
01-07-2008, 01:52
of course everybody is free to use his own ideas at will. Everything is relative. This is just my personal opinion.

You are free to agree or not. I am not the pope and warhammer is not a religion!

I am not going to comment anybodies ideas but show the advantages and disadvantages.

In my personal opinion things may be diffrent. As mentioned above we are not talking about a person or his emotions but about words on a sheet of paper.

So do not take it personal but think about the ideas and read what is yet to come.

The only thing i do wish to mention is that I would never play my vampire counts army without a vampire count. The entire book is about vampire counts. I do have to admit never having played Vampire counts in games smaller than 2K and greater than 3,5K. Those banners have not in one of those 25 games ever touched my senses.

Gharof von Carstein
01-07-2008, 09:45
I have to agree with windings on a lot save one thing and that is the varghulf. sure he may be expensive but he is a regular powerhouse. with some luck your opponent may be able to wound him once in a CC phase. just IoN back to full health, rince and repeat. 5 attacks at S5 with T5 is nothing to sneeze at. Iv sent the guy headfirst into units of cavalry which he took out single handedly in 1 turn. (5 models 4 casualties the last one broke like the cowered he was only to get chased down and slaughtered) not to mention after punching through a cavalry or weak unit of your opponent the varghulf has the movement speed to basically swirl round your opponents army and make some very nice rear charges. now if only he was Unit strength 5 instead of 4 he would be whiping out a lot of units fleeing from battle just by standing in their way... for 175 points he is expensive but if I had another one I would field both in almost every army I play, hands down.

Windings of a snake
01-07-2008, 10:43
Gharof you are right in saying that its potential is good. The price is just not up to that potential. The Varghulf is a good choice but he is too expensive for what he does in comparison to a tomb scorpion.

DarthBinky
01-07-2008, 17:39
A problem with the initial post's notes-

It should probably be clarified that you don't need SCOTN or SG to create ghouls, bats, wolves, etc. You just need those to increase the associated unit(s) beyond their starting size; you can always use ION to replace casualties. The way the post is written now, it's not terribly clear that that's the case.

lparigi34
01-07-2008, 19:16
Black coach:

Whoever has come up with the evocation of death had a bad nights rest. It is most useless as it eats more of your dice then your enemies.A chariot at the price of an astounding 200 points is absolutely horrible. An admirable armour save and a ward save may give sufficient protection against small arms fire, but against some adversaries she is not very useful. Also does the chariot only give limited movement support to adjacent units as it is unable to march. Until now i played her about 5 times and she was of practically no more use than a chariot at half the price.

Disadvantages: Expensive, inefficient, slow, eats your direly needed power dice.

Have to agree here. Smaller stuff usually does not even bother shooting chariots, not even normal ones. Cannons is usually the way to go and they finish up Coaches easily.

Azmazi
01-07-2008, 19:39
A problem with the initial post's notes-

It should probably be clarified that you don't need SCOTN or SG to create ghouls, bats, wolves, etc. You just need those to increase the associated unit(s) beyond their starting size; you can always use ION to replace casualties. The way the post is written now, it's not terribly clear that that's the case.

Ahhh, noted. Lately been doing it in a word doc so I'm not doing like I did the the others and constantly editing. Also Windings I'm adding your inputs as well as the others in the doc and after work I'll start throwing them into the first and second post.

Loopstah
01-07-2008, 19:41
Just a note that Bat Swarms are no longer Swarms.
You can also heal them with IoN and get the bonus from SCotN.

Might be worth adding as a few people assume they aren't infantry.

Gharof von Carstein
02-07-2008, 00:04
iv been wondering about fell bats lately. Iv used em in a few games and I know iv been using them wrong but I was seriously underwhelmed by their combat performance. Im wondering if dire wolves cant do the job at a heck of a lower cost than the bats creating up some more room for a extra necro. a small unit of 5 wolves with one doom wolf will quickly turn into a big unit when fielded with count mannfred as my general (main general of choice for me). thoughts on this?

another thing, about count mannfred. His magic item is clearly the awesome (I like to field manny in my blood knights unit making sure that I can avoid having to fight in challenges I dont particullary like) but would it be more cost efficient and overall efficient to field a vamp lord on a nightmare and fill him up to take mannys place? I mean the only thing that manny has up on a normal lord is the sword. personally iv had too little experience with the magic item to judge. anyone got any thoughts for me on that 2?

thx.

Marshal Torrick
02-07-2008, 01:42
Mannfred has all three Arkayne bloodlines, which is impossible in 100 pts, along with Lord of the Dead and Summon Creatures of the night. In addition to this he has a good magic "armor" and weapon and the ability to take the skullstaff and Book of Arkhan. He's quite good, but you pay for it :)

Azmazi
02-07-2008, 06:17
Just a note that Bat Swarms are no longer Swarms.
You can also heal them with IoN and get the bonus from SCotN.

Might be worth adding as a few people assume they aren't infantry.

Thats because on page 50 in the VC book it has them as Special Rules: Undead, Swarm, Flying Unit, Cloud of Horror.

Yet in the ref page it doesn't state swarm or in page 93. I haven't had a chance to look at the FAQ for that piece of info yet, but if that is cleared up I will change it. However for "IoN" purposes they do get raised back as d6 per infantry.

(Edit: Okay checked the FAQ, is just states for purposes of being Undead swarm doesn't matter, so the part of the IoN does still stand on how they are raised back.)

Azmazi
02-07-2008, 06:58
Okay so far page 1 is complete (it is also full with it hitting the 20000 character mark) so we are over half way done, kinda wish now I saved a third spot for another just incase...bah.

Windings of a snake
02-07-2008, 10:31
Continued:

Flying Horror: At 30 Points this ability is great, combinations rise to minds and new options derive. It would have been more awesome at 25 points in order to allow more combining.

Infinite Hatred: Allways of use with nearly any weapon hatred has a distinct disadvantage in pursuing the enemy.

Hunter in the dark: A scouting vampire is yet nearly untested in a general purpose enviroment. I do think its potential is yet uncharted.

Red Fury: Awesome power. Awesome damage potential. But there is no good weapon available except for any lance. This powers shows the absolute weakness of the magic weapons section. The magic weapons section throws veteran players into fits of rage when trying to use red fury on foot. Having used sword of might as a last resort and finding it one of the better weapons available to the vampire chars is sad. Forbidding the use of a great weapon in comination was lame and nerfed red fury substantially

Avatar of death: A great weapon and heavy armour or any of those cominations at 20 points is throwing points into the desert of nothingness. Espacially vampires suffer from these restrictions as there is no magical great weapon. A combination of the only expensive great weapon with red fury is not possible either.

Dread knight. This set of arms and armour does quiet well in comparison to avatar of death. Decent save and a decent weapon. It could have been more combo going with a reduction of 5 points in cost.

Redking
02-07-2008, 15:55
Enchanted items

<snip>

talisman of lycni: M9 at ten points is mostly a gift from above.

Sadly this is a magic item gift only one vamp will get for Geheimnisnacht - the others will have to go for 30pt flying bloodline power or a 25pts Dread Knight.

Redking
02-07-2008, 17:11
Rank File - What to choose? Zombie, Skels or Ghouls?

Zombies - now only 1/2 the cost of Skels and Ghouls, but reduced T means taking extra casualties from most S3 bow fire. In fact, S3 range hit vs Zombs: 3+ wound no save = 66% kill. Bad against range armies - not so bad against infantry armies you need to outnumber.
Other downer - No cheap way of reaching the critical IoN on a 3+ when raising zombies, whereas the appropriate Master bloodline powers can boost Ghoul and Skel IoN summoning. You'd have to go for the dear and costly Skull Staff for that. Otherwise, needing to cast IoN on 2 dice for D6+4 Zombs is similar to 1 die for D6 - little better than when summoning via a Master bloodline power. I figure you'd rather be summoning better troops for the same cost in power dice!
The no pursuit drawback isn't so bad for tarpit though.

Conclusion - Buy some big units cheap for outnumbering, but Zombs die twice as fast as Ghouls and Skels anyway and at a glance they don't seem any easier to IoN. I think Skels and Ghouls are preferable choices.

Skeletons vs Ghouls- Skels start with ok equipment, and can get spears. With Zombs out, it's these or Ghouls. Well, vs ranged S3 attacks, it's even:
vs Ghoul: 5+ wound, no save = 33% kill
vs Skel: 4+ wound, 5+ save = 1/2 x 2/3 = 33% kill

In CC, per hit received, Skels have the edge defensively due to the LA+handW combo
vs Ghoul:5+ wound, no save = 33% kill
vs Skel: 4+ wound, 4+ save (LightArmour + HandWpn) = 25% kill

But for CC damage dealing against most infantry
Ghoul: 2 x 4+ hit (usually) x 4+ wound = 1/2 wound ave. But inc poison we get 2 x ((1/3 hit x 4+ wound) + (1/6 hit x auto wound)) = 2/3 wound ave.
Skel: 1x 4+ hit (but Ghouls have 1pt higher WS) x 4+ wound = 1/4 wound ave.

So with a front rank of 5, Ghouls get ave 5 x 2/3 = 10/3 = 3 1/3 wounds
Skels get 5 x 1/4 = 5/4 = 1 1/4 wound. So Ghouls tend to get +2 rez.

Skels can have Standard/Muse, but this doesn't match the Ghouls (and it would cost extra points too). If we give the skels spears, twice the attacks gives: 10 x 1/4 = 10/4 = 2 1/2 rez, still less than Ghouls, but if we add in the standard the Skels finally come out tops at an additional cost of 1 per skel + 8pt standard. The spears also make for a better defensive unit anyway.
The necromantic frosting on the skeletal cake is the Skels being able to take a magic banner as well.

So, Ghouls are the better deal for less points, but Skels can give you more. I think Ghouls get more of an edge as Character killers and vs tougher foes, as well as the Ghoulkin power giving a headstart on the shambling skels in crossing the battlefield.

Conclusion - At the mo, my money is going on the Ghouls for their aggressive capacity (and ASF from Corpse Cart negates the Skel spear defense somewhat) with a couple of Bannered Skels. I guess we could use Zombies for predominantly infantry armies with large unit sizes - Orcs/Gobbos, Empire (cannon fodder)?

Windings of a snake
02-07-2008, 18:35
To be perfectly honest I did try all of them and have to admit that skeletons do slightly worse than ghouls in practical use.

Remember shooting units at S4 armour piercing. They will kill more skeletons. There is a lot of that shooting.

In overall performance ghouls outclass skeleton by their ability to march before anything happens at all.

Usually ghouls excel at opponents that are below W7 at any thoughness up to 7 by using poison. Splendid against ogre Kingdoms and low armour save.

Windings of a snake
02-07-2008, 18:49
Aura of Dark majesty: At 50 points and a range of an uber 6 inches this power is prone to be ripe for the dustbin. Walking death does more good at half the points. Even with comosupport there seems to be no remedy.

Walking death: At 25 points this mobile war banner might be given to that Vampire BSB with dread knight and Walachs bloody hauberk. In a unit of WS 6 Skeletons with a war banner this is a cheap and perfect addition.

Beguile: Rerolls rarely suck. this one is quiet nice but there is a unconditional reroll for hitting, thus beeing just secondary even tough still of general use.

Lord of the dead: Perfect

Summon creatures of the night: Perfect except for beeing able to boost dire wolves properly.

Summon ghouls: Perfect

This concludes the vampiric powers.

Windings of a snake
02-07-2008, 19:04
Invocation of nehek:

This is it. This is what the undead are made of and by over and over again. This is what gives you the advatage in a war of depletion. Raise and revive does what needs to be done. This is the mind of matter spell.

It is mandatory to have at least one of the "The master" powers in order to have a decent caster lord or hero. Different purposes are served by the invocation.

It has a decent range of 18 inches and by this has the range to be sufficiently supporting to even cavalry units. Single dice attempts are the most commonly used approach and are espacially depending on having a bonus on them to be practical in use.

To whom it might appear usefull a skull staff could boost it furtherly. however a roll of 1 and 2 is still a failure. So there is doubt about the skull staff as it does not boost the main spell to good.

In 7th edition we moved into reviving everything so there is extended use of this spell.

Windings of a snake
02-07-2008, 19:10
Raise dead:

whenever possible players avoid giving away points to the adversary, this means ghouls are in no way a mainstay unit in general purpose. Beeing able to raise them does a lot of good. Who ever limited the sceptre of noriot to raise dead misjudged the value of raise dead. there is practicly no way of enlarging this unit more easily than on a roll of 4 except with the skull staff. So for raise dead to generate a unit of fashionable size you would need two magic items!

This makes the spell a second line gear for vampires. Good aigainst frenzy units to delay and mislead it has found a good purpose.

Windings of a snake
02-07-2008, 19:15
van hels dance macabre:

Possily the best spell in the entire lore of vampires(invocation is not in the lore) a retry dual purpose movement spell cast at a mere 7+ is more tham a game winner at any time.
Its big drawback is to be found at the range of it. Only 12 inches of range do still not suffice for a balanced force.

However there is no better spell in movement because of the recasting and the ability to be purchased in a book of arkhan or a necromancer. Another plus is the casting value of 7+ which can realisticly be achieved by two dice.

Windings of a snake
02-07-2008, 19:16
gaze of nagash

2W6 S4 hits at casting value 8 is very average but for vampire counts it is the main damage spell.

Windings of a snake
02-07-2008, 19:19
curse of years:

At casting value 8+ this spell has returned at a easy casting level. The real drawback is the remain in play rule. The Vampire lord should not senselessly try to cast it.

It is a level 2 vampires spell. In this fashion it is a great spell tom be cast with 3 dice.

Oberon
02-07-2008, 21:29
Curse is fine as a phase ender spell, cast as a final spell before ending your own magic phase, then hoping he does not remember it is on and casts his own spells in a hurry. This has happened for me a few times, and especially in tournament situation they hate it when it happens, oh the faces! :D As it doesn't allow armour saves, people tend to dispell it, so this is a spell to use if you want to burn the dice away, or lure out a scroll.

Redking
02-07-2008, 23:54
Summon creatures of the night: Perfect except for beeing able to boost dire wolves properly.


I hadn't noticed the downer about the Direwolves being cavalry (1 wound only from IoN), but on the other hand Fell Bats are infantry and thus easily raised! Wow. They may be weak fighters, but to be able to give a flying vampire an easy-to-boost 20 wound flying bodyguard is pretty amazing I think! In fact - aren't Fell Bats the most valuable undead that can be raised D6 wounds at a time by IoN? Just need to take some items to boost the fightiness perhaps, or just run circles around the foe, march block etc.

Possibilities to try: Flying, Summon CotN, vamp BSB with some cheaty banner + Fell Bats x 10? A mostly aerial army with 2 or more Fell Bat units + accompanying flying + Summon CotN vampire? The dead really do travel fast!

Windings of a snake
03-07-2008, 00:43
Wind of undeath:

At first glance a low potential hard to cast spell with limited damage output appears to e waste of dice.

Au contraire baby, this one is a real stinker for the enemy. Damaging single chars like lone slann priests. Speedy loners like saurus and vampire heroes and other single chars is a victory point gainer. Taking away a rank does decide battles.

Not to forget the spirit hosts you could even van hel!

Windings of a snake
03-07-2008, 11:22
Summon undead horde:

This dual purpose spell is cast on an impressive 12+ so there is only one single model to be its caster, the vampire lord.

Option one create 5D6 zombies plus the sceptre of moriot bonus seems qiuet good, but on the other hand it is 4D6 for 5D6 zombies. Not to much then.

The alternative option appears to be more viable if considered closely. Still it does not do a lot better then 4 single attempts of invocation of nehek. And it is easier to keep in check.

Frankly
03-07-2008, 22:17
Wow awesome job guys.

Windings of a snake
04-07-2008, 07:23
Thank you very much frankly.

I was planning on a combo tactic against the diffrent adversaries.

Windings of a snake
04-07-2008, 07:50
Vampire counts vs Beastmen

The undoubting sacrifce of the beastmen as a viable army by cutting it down to the original book has made facing them somewhat more predictable. Beastmen tend to be very flexible in terms of their ability to use diffrent lord choices to alter the face of their army.

Doombull: An adversary that puts some respect in most vampires and even their lords.
A staggering 5 attacks with a great weapon make most armour obsolete. But the weaponskill is only mediocore. . The main advantage is to be found in the newly gained core choices.You can choose minotaurs as core.

Minotaurs with mark of khorne and great weapons pose a major threat to every unit vampire counts can put up on foot. Cavalrymen will find it difficult to break them by resolution. This is of course not true for blood knights. Smaller groups of these core choices in their gear can multicahrge and move swiftly.

Adding some chariots and three wizard on chariots will make a formidable force to face theundead onslought. The piny hounds of chaos will not be deployed for their poor movement and leadership value. This leaves you with the advantage of beeing more flexible and manoeverable by using dire wolves in a more supporting role. The absence of war machines is also lifting weight from their shoulders.

Countermeasures:

Core choices: Use ghoules instead of skeletons. Use the ghoulkin power. One Necromancer with his scrolls mounted on a cart with either balefire or loadstone.Both will do well in this enviroment. Dire wolves make the day.

Special choices: Go ethearel. Use some Spirit hosts.

Rare: choices: Blood knights for speed and damage and cairn wraiths with tomb banshee for damage and aborting attacks mounted by chariots.

Chars: A standard vampire lord with dice enhancement and extra level to meet the demands of summoning. Armour and ward save are needed. Use sword of might for damage.

apart from one necromancer there is need for a support vampire with helm of caommandment and the black periapt and extra magic level and summon ghouls.

Another vampire will add ghoulkin plus whatever you fancy.