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shveen
30-06-2008, 19:34
This is an army I've been wanting to do for ages and have fianll accumilated the models for. Everything here is bought and built, but I also have 5 Pistoliers about 10 Knights and 15 Free Company.


Heroes

Captain
Armour of Meteoric Iron
Sigil of Sigmar
Great Weapon
Total 94

Goes with the Swordsmen, will hold the line together and is ok in CC.


Battle Wizard
Level 2
Rod of Power
Total 130

Not sure which Lore to choose for this guy. I want something offensive like Heavens or Fire so I may go for one of those.

Core

24 Swordsmen
Musician
Standard Bearer
Champion
Total 169

Detachment
5 Free Company
Total 25

This guys can give a charge and take one. The detachment should be able to negate any rank bonuses and the extra attacks will come in handy.

25 Spearmen
Musician
Standard Bearer
Champion
Total 170

Detatchment
5 Free Company
Total 25

These guys are more of a defensive unit I may have them secure a flank or ride with the main line.

10 Handgunners
Total 80

Fire support. Should be able to take out most Light Armoured troops


Special

Great Cannon
Total 100

Character/ wizard sniper. Maybe cuase a few panic checks

15 Greatswords
Musician
Standard Bearer
Count's Champion
Total 180

Detachment
5 Free Company
Total 25

This unit is the hammer unit of the army should pack a punchin CC and stubborn is very nice.


What do you guys think?

Shveen

Stinkfoot
30-06-2008, 19:48
A lone wizard will never cast anything. Demote him to a scroll caddy, maybe with only one scroll since this is a small game, and double the size of all of your free company detachments. With 5 men in them any casualties will make them pretty much useless.

Also, make the gunners a detachment. There is no penalty for doing so, and if they're a detachment they don't cause panic.

I think two units of 5 knights would work better than the greatswords, but the GS will work fine.

Kahadras
30-06-2008, 23:21
I've got a few sugestions....


Captain
Armour of Meteoric Iron
Sigil of Sigmar
Great Weapon

I'd think about dropping the Sigil of Sigmarto save a few points here. With a decent armour save and a Great weapon he should be fine. Another build I would think about is maybe giving him full plate, a shield, a hand weapon and the Holy Relic which would make him even harder to kill in combat but less effective at killing stuff (basicaly you trade offence for defence)


Battle Wizard
Level 2
Rod of Power


Unfortunaly this guy probably isn't going to do a lot by himself (you need two wizards, the Rod of Power and a couple of bound spells to get a decent magic phase at 1000 points. Better just to turn him into a level 1 scroll caddy as Stinkfoot sugests


24 Swordsmen
Musician
Standard Bearer
Champion


Looks fine to me.


Detachment
5 Free Company

I agree with Stinkfoot that the detchment is far to small. I'd think about taking a ten strong unit of state troops as a detachment as they can take a lot more punnishment before being destroyed/rendered useless.


25 Spearmen
Musician
Standard Bearer
Champion

Again looks OK.


10 Handgunners


I'd think about swiching these guys to Crossbowmen. I've used both and I prefer the extra range over the armour piercing at the end of the day.


Great Cannon

Virtualy mandatory in an Empire army.


15 Greatswords
Musician
Standard Bearer
Count's Champion

A bit small for my taste. The unit will get chewed up pretty quickly if anybody out there has a decent amount of firepower/magic. I'd look to possibly boost them up to 20.

Overall the list has one cardinal sin though and that it lack of mobility. If your opponant has fast units he is going to be able to hit the army where ever he feels like and the speed which the army will be able to react won't be good enough.

Personaly this is what I'd do...

1. Make the Wizard a scroll caddy (level 1 with a dispel magic scroll)
2. Drop the Spearmen
3. Add in a unit of 5 Knights
4. Bump up the detachments to 10 Swordsmen for the Swordsmen and Greatswords
5. Bump up the Great Swords to 20.
6. If you have any left over points get a unit of Pistoliers

Hope this helps

Kahadras

Frankly
01-07-2008, 00:14
I think the army lacks a bit of mobile support like knight or pistollers, to cover holes in your defences or to play a more agressive role if needs be.

Protect your general, your lis twill be working of his L.d. 90% of the time, so you can even stuff him on a barded horse to up the armour save.

Apart from that, its a very nice list.

Napoleon Blownapart
01-07-2008, 01:34
Excellent list, lots of infantry is important as is the cannon ( I've seen pegasus and stank at 1k). You could REALLY use a unit of 5 knights with musicians, most empire lists use at least 1 unit of them.

shveen
02-07-2008, 18:29
Thank you for all the advice guys. I will demote the wizard to a scroll caddy and bump up the Detachments to 10 men each. The Greatswords seem to be ineefective at this points level, I'll drop them for a unit of Knights and a Unit of Pistoliers for extra mobility. Here is the new list.

Heroes

Captain
Armour of Meteoric Iron
Great Weapon
Total 79

Battle Wizard
Level 1
Dispel Scroll
Total 90

Core

24 Swordsmen
Musician
Standard Bearer
Champion
Total 169

Detachment
10 Free Company
Total 50

25 Spearmen
Musician
Standard Bearer
Champion
Total 170

Detatchment
10 Free Company
Total 50


5 Knights
Musician
Total 127


10 Handgunners/Crossbowmen (Haven't decided yet)
Total: 80

Special

Great Cannon
Total 100


5 Pistoliers
Musician
Total 97

Total Army Cost

Kahadras
02-07-2008, 19:11
That looks a lot more solid IMHO. The Pistoliers and Knights will give you some mobility on the flanks and the two infantry blocks should give you a pretty tough center to work with. Now just get some games in and tweak the list as and when you see fit.

Kahadras

Stinkfoot
02-07-2008, 19:27
Looks great to me.

I'd suggest taking the handgunners over the crossbows. Handguns get the extra d6 inches range on the first turn, which is usually enough to bring whatever they want to shoot at into range. This offsets the main advantage of crossbows. After the first turn, the enemy will probably be in range of either unit anyway.

Kahadras
02-07-2008, 22:20
Handguns get the extra d6 inches range on the first turn,

Untrue I'm afraid. That was back in the last ed of Warhammer and was subsiquently removed. Handguns now have a set range of 24 inches which is offset by the fact they are armour piercing. Unfortunatly I tend to find the lack of range crippling against any army that utilises crossbows or longbows. The added range allows your opponant to get in the first round of shooting which can be devestating in some situations.

Crossbowmen can hit your opponant on turn one even if you get the first turn. The example I hold up is two games I played against the new High Elves. In the first game I was using Handguns. I won the initative and found that my handguns were essencialy useless for the first turn. In my opponants turn he hit my Handgunners with a volley of arrows that killed enough to force a panic check (which I failed)

Learning from my mistake the next time I faced a High Elf army I had a unit of Crossbowmen. Again I won first turn but this time my crossbowmen got in the first shot on his archers. I downed enough to force a panic check (which he passed) but because of the damage I cause to the unit his return fire was in no way as effective as it could have been meaning my Crossbowmen where still fairly much intact (no panic check) and were able to fire at the archers again next turn.

Kahadras

Stinkfoot
02-07-2008, 22:59
Untrue I'm afraid. [The extra d6" range] was back in the last ed of Warhammer and was subsiquently removed. Handguns now have a set range of 24 inches which is offset by the fact they are armour piercing. Unfortunatly I tend to find the lack of range crippling against any army that utilises crossbows or longbows. The added range allows your opponant to get in the first round of shooting which can be devestating in some situations.

Apparently my usually Empire opponent has been "forgetting" to mention that...

That does hurt the case for gunners, but I still think against many opponents they're the better bet. Guns are probably excessive against Elves, but against armies without longbows and/or with tougher troops, such as Brettonia or non-Daemon Chaos, I'd still say the guns are a better bet. I think the rule of thumb should be that if your opponent is fielding lots of troops with a 4+ or better save against shooting, the armor piercing is worth the loss of range.

So who are you playing shveen? That should help you make the decision, assuming you don't want to buy both.

Kahadras
02-07-2008, 23:39
I'd say go for both (I do). The Crossbows give you the range while the Handgunners give you that extra punch. I'd use the handgunners as detachments and the Crossbowmen as a flexible deployment choice. The fact is though that if it comes down to one or the other there are far more low armour save armies out there than high.

Kahadras

shveen
03-07-2008, 16:52
Thanks for all the advice guys. My game is against Orcs and Goblins so I think I will take the Handgunners over the crossbowmen for the extra punch as their shotting will not be that powerful (I hope).

Thanks again

Shveen

Marwynn
03-07-2008, 17:49
Hmm... well, the Greenskins aren't that heavily armoured and with Animosity they would sometimes give you more opportunities for them to be shot at. But it is a good choice, the Greenskins would be trying to get as close to you ASAP.

Oh, and use them as a detachment to one of your blocks.

You can also trim down the Free Company to 9 and deploy them in a 3x3 formation. This helps out because it compacts your line and makes them harder to charge on their own. The're also more maneuverable. It's the Unit Strength that counts for negating rank bonuses so they're fine even if they get less attacks on their own. This assumes however that you have your other flanks covered.

Personally I'd bring more artillery. For 80% of the cost of a Great Cannon they can bring two Bolt Throwers. Or maybe even a Doom Diver or Stone Thrower. Not the most accurate or reliable of weapons, but they'll squish you good just the same.

bassmasterliam
04-07-2008, 08:50
Against Greenskins you should take a mortar or two, great at smashing units of Greenies you don't want getting to you lines, i would also take Halberdiers as detachments, their +1 str is great when fighting T4 armies like Orcs.