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GodsHammer
30-06-2008, 21:05
I have to say im amazed by the knowledge of the people in the Forums, i take my hat off to you all.

Ive very new to the WarHammer games and alot of the information i read from other threads really goes over my head. Where do you get all of your information?

ATM i am reading the Space Marine Codex and i find it very informative yet a little to much to retain.

I decided to go for the UltraMarines design,but now im thinking changing to something else as i now found out that they are the most popular. Now. Are all the Space Marine figures the same in design e.g. UltraMarines the same as White Scars and the only thing differences is the colour schemes and decals?

Knowing the back history, is that integral to playing the game?

I really hate being a noobie and being a 29yrd noobie is even worse...Ask me anything about a Nissan 200SX and im your man :D

I really hope you all go easy on me.

Cheers

Peter

Black Antelope
30-06-2008, 21:21
Ive very new to the WarHammer games and alot of the information i read from other threads really goes over my head. Where do you get all of your information?

We are insticntivly born with such infomation in our minds, as they are far superior to those of mear motals like yourself!

Nah, dont know myself, just absorb it

ATM i am reading the Space Marine Codex and i find it very informative yet a little to much to retain.

I decided to go for the UltraMarines design BOO!!,but now im thinking changing to something else as i now found out that they are the most popular. Now. Are all the Space Marine figures the same in design e.g. UltraMarines the same as White Scars and the only thing differences is the colour schemes and decals?

Its not a design, there are all different. In fluff [background] they are all seperate chapters with different leadership strutures, tactics, belifes about the God Emporer (ie, is he a God, the Big Daddy, or just one hell of an awsome dude). In the game itself, they are not only sperated by the colours and badges, but have different compostions and different play styles. Ultranoobs use mixed, Scars use a lot of bikes, Salamaders have short ranged firepower, melta/flamers, DA 1st company uses all terminators etc. also, some (BA, SW, BT) have their own codexes.

Knowing the back history, is that integral to playing the game?

Definatly

Well, ok, its not, but it helps to get a 'fluffy' army and, IMO, enjoy it more

I really hate being a noobie and being a 29yrd noobie is even worse...Ask me anything about a Nissan 200SX and im your man :D

All gotta start somewhere, all I know about the Nissan 200SX is that its a car:D

I really hope you all go easy on me.


*The following annoncement is from the DoF [Department of Filler]*

Snorg is the anwser to all things podsol

Shibboleth
30-06-2008, 21:27
In terms of models, yes White Scar Space Marines are the same as Ultra's, but they are known to have a Mongolian influence and mostly ride around in bikes and landspeeders, so you may want to customise the models that way too.
There are some White Scar biker models available also which have the mongolian look.

Rules wise you'd follow the traits listed for them in the current codex, although it's legal to play them without any traits.

However it's only a few months until the new SM codex comes out, in which special characters will affect your options rather than traits, which are being abolished...

The models are all based on the same plastics though...

For Space Marine info and background you could try Wikipedia, or the official site here:
http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/

Also the Index Astartes books have a lot of background material on individual Legions and Chapters.

ankara halla
30-06-2008, 21:39
I have to say im amazed by the knowledge of the people in the Forums, i take my hat off to you all.

Ive very new to the WarHammer games and alot of the information i read from other threads really goes over my head. Where do you get all of your information?

Books and previous publications. A number of people also get their info second hand, which can be a problem if one isn't careful about the sources.

But yeah, that's all it is, reading. It's not that big of a deal. All it takes is enough rainy days with nothing better to do.


ATM i am reading the Space Marine Codex and i find it very informative yet a little to much to retain.

I decided to go for the UltraMarines design,but now im thinking changing to something else as i now found out that they are the most popular. Now. Are all the Space Marine figures the same in design e.g. UltraMarines the same as White Scars and the only thing differences is the colour schemes and decals?

Yes, they are the same. Apart from the odd sculpetd shoulder pad etc. there is no difference, modelwise. The plastic kits are all interchangeable and there's nothing to prevent you from mixing them up all you want.

Ruleswise there are some differences, but that doesn't mean you can't use those same models with different rules as long as the rules you use are legal (basically, don't mix rules from different armies).


Knowing the back history, is that integral to playing the game?

No, it's an added extra meant to set 40k apart from other sci-fi tabletop games. There are people who are into 40k more for the background than the rules and see strict adherence to the established material as essential, but most people see it differently. It is your hobby, you can do whatever you want whit it and being creative is rarely a bad thing in a hobby such as this.


I really hate being a noobie and being a 29yrd noobie is even worse...Ask me anything about a Nissan 200SX and im your man :D

I really hope you all go easy on me.

Cheers

Peter

Nissan eh... I'm more into European roadsters and American muscle myself, but I appreciate a nice Jap when I see one and the 200SX is kinda cute, it's the kind of a car I could see my girl driving in! :p ;)

Welcome to the hobby! :)

GodsHammer
30-06-2008, 21:40
*The following annoncement is from the DoF [Department of Filler]*

Snorg is the anwser to all things podsol

Now whats what i call a good responce. I understood all of that...I think lol.

So really its a good idea to read a little bit of the "Fluff" <iirc> to get a sort of feel to the Laws and Ideals of various Gods/ Emperor's type personage?

So which SM are classed as good with positive Law's etc and which are the down right bad boys?

I read that its possible to start your own "chapter"? My understanding is you can choose your own theme's and "Fluff" to give that particular "chapter" some depth and realism?

Koryphaus
30-06-2008, 21:47
Well, at the very simplest level, all the Imperial Space Marines are "good", and all the Chaos Space Marines, both from the original Traitor Legions, and later renegades, are "bad".

However, some "Good" SMs are better than others.. Like all good things, there's plenty of grey areas..

And yeah, its more than possible. Its encouraged! There is absolutely no need or requirement to use any of the published armies! It's all your hobby, so let your imagination run wild!

Vedar
30-06-2008, 21:53
As people have said the new Space marine Codex comes out soon. Unless you are playing one of the special SM chapters with its own codex, (Blood Angles, Space Wolves, ect) you will be playing generic space marines.

Unless you really like UltraMarines I'd play something else (even make your own chapter) Ultramarines take a lot of flak for being GW's golden boys. Ultramarines are just plain unimaginative.

Knowing history means nothing in the game though most people get interested in the history of the armies they play.

GodsHammer
30-06-2008, 22:09
I think ill finish off the Battle for Macragge and my 2 tactical squads in Ultramarine blue and have a couple of games and see how that goes. I think ill probably look at researching other areas of SM.

Ive spent a fare few hours painting and gluing. I totally love it. Its a real break from the norm of life.

Any information and advice will always be appreciated.

Lord Inquisitor
30-06-2008, 22:28
Bear in mind that there is absolutely nothing wrong with ultramarines. They are perhaps the finest Chapter of Space Marines, there is a huge wealth of background on them, they have a mountain of special characters for you to choose from, some really gorgeous unique models such as the honour guard that no other Chapter has, they've a really very nice yet easy colourscheme.

The only reason they are maligned is simply because they're the ones on the front of the boxes. Once upon a time Blood Angels were viewed in that way. Don't feel you need to pick some obscure Chapter - while making your own colourscheme up can be rewarding, everybody recognises the Ultramarines.

RazielZian
30-06-2008, 22:37
The vast majority of space marine chapters are for teh most part exactly the same, they might see things a little differently but thats pure fluff and doesn't effect the game.

There are a few chapters who operate a little differently, for example:
White scars listed above tend to use a lot of bikes/speeders,
Space Wolves tend to take more close range weaponry (with the exception of long fangs, their heavy weapon teams),
Blood Angels are the masters of the assult phase (who else would be crazy enough to stick a twin-linked assult cannon on a predator),
Blood Ravens have very little in the way of mechanised support and are for the most part an infantry army,
Salamanders, who along with commander Shrike have a great love of fast hit and run tactics and emply a large number of assult troops,
Then there is the Dark Angels... sorry a Dark Angel never reveals the secrets of his chapter...

Lord Inquisitor
30-06-2008, 22:58
Salamanders, who along with commander Shrike have a great love of fast hit and run tactics and emply a large number of assult troops,
Psst... You're thinking of the Raven Guard. The Salamanders are the ones who don't use many assault troops and prefer to blast the enemy at point blank range with flamer and melta weapons...

GodsHammer
30-06-2008, 23:14
So the Tactical Squad that you can buy in a box of 10 is a generic SM squad?
As mentioned above there are a vast amount of extra peices available for each Chapter, does that mean there are particular peices that only go with say Ultramarines and no other Chapter? If i want to buy a particular peice will it tell me on the box that that part only belongs to a certain Chapter?

What book would you reccomend i have a read of for some Fluff?

I have used the search button and i couldnt find noobie section with Q/A.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Lord Inquisitor
30-06-2008, 23:36
I really hate being a noobie and being a 29yrd noobie is even worse...
29 yards? Yikes...

Anyway, your best bet is to get the rulebook and the Space Marine codex. These will give you enough background and handle on the rules to get by, and the Space Marine codex will tell you what units you can have.

Be warned though that you're just starting at a period of great change. A new edition of the rules is shortly to be released (although looking at these boards you'd think it'd been out for ages!): there is also shortly going to be a new Space Marine codex. In some ways that's great for you - everyone is going to have to learn the new rules, so in many ways it'll be easier to start now as everyone is a "noobie"!

electric
01-07-2008, 00:58
So the Tactical Squad that you can buy in a box of 10 is a generic SM squad?
As mentioned above there are a vast amount of extra peices available for each Chapter, does that mean there are particular peices that only go with say Ultramarines and no other Chapter? If i want to buy a particular peice will it tell me on the box that that part only belongs to a certain Chapter?

What book would you reccomend i have a read of for some Fluff?

I have used the search button and i couldnt find noobie section with Q/A.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Yes, the tactical box is a generic squad. Unless you play Black Templars or buy an upgrade pack from Forge World, all chapters use that box and just paint the squad differently.

There are only a relative few marine pieces that only go to one army, and those will be evident to you. For example, the Ultramarines Honor Guard box will have the ultramarines clear on it. Special characters usually have their army on the blister pack name, but if not then in the appropriate codex it will tell their name. Usually just spending time with the game makes you realize what space marines use what.

For fluff, one of the best sources is the internet. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com is a wiki for everything 40k, and has almost all the information you could ever imagine in it. Look up White Scars and learn about the army you want to play. However, Black Library is the part of Games Workshop that puts out novels and if you like the game you'll find that many novels will be to your liking. The novels host settings from before the time we're playing in to the point of "modern day" time.

Although, as others have said, knowing the background doesn't mean much game-wise, you'll find that it feels good to know where your army is coming from and how they work.

RazielZian
01-07-2008, 01:11
Psst... You're thinking of the Raven Guard. The Salamanders are the ones who don't use many assault troops and prefer to blast the enemy at point blank range with flamer and melta weapons...

Yikes... your right of course... heh silly me, going on like I know what im talking about and then mixing up the chapters :wtf: :D

Anyhew, as for the 10 man tac squad box, space wolves also use different models, but you can interpose the standard marines throughout the squads to beef them out a bit (and its cheaper that way too)

P.s. I'd recommend not taking space wolves to start with, they are not an easy army to handle, and trying to paint that blue-grey armour can be a bit*h to begin with, as for painting tips... for the white scars, make sure you have a minimum of 3 brushes, 1 just for white (trust me you do not want to contaminate the white on the armour), 1 for inks (once again to avoid contaminating the white) and 1 for others/drybrushing.

Its a fairly obvious tip, just hey, it makes it look like I know more than I actually do! :p

CommisarMolotov
01-07-2008, 01:24
If you're not sure which chapter you'd like your Space Marines to be from, why not paint up your army as a "crusade" made up of Marines from several different chapters? You could have an Ultramarines squad, an Imperial Fists squad, a Blood Angels squad... Heck, even some Flesh Tearers or Mortifactors. Go nuts!

Rules wise, you'd just use the "generic" Marine rules, but it would let you try out some different painting techniques - and it'd keep you from getting bored while painting!

Kalec
01-07-2008, 01:48
I wouldn't be putting too many guys together with a new codex just around the corner. We don't have all the details yet, and there will probably be some things in there that you will like, and some things that you won't. It would be beyond optimism to hope that these do not overlap with what you are buying now.

That being said, you can't go wrong with scouts and tactical marines.

Juicebox
01-07-2008, 04:23
What book would you reccomend i have a read of for some Fluff?

Not a book but, it does have tons of info, including really detailed background sections on the big SM chapters and the paint scheme to many, many others:

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page

Good luck with everything!

Champsguy
01-07-2008, 04:31
Okay, a lot of people have given some good answers in this thread, but I'm going to chime in as well.

99% of Space Marine chapters use the same models. There are a few chapters that have special sets for something within their chapter (i.e., Dark Angels have a special "Dark Angels Veterans" box), but for the most part, you can even paint up these models in whatever color you like and it will be fine. Most of the different models are different only in that certain chapters go for a certain look -- Space Wolves usually have lots of hair, and wear wolf pelts on their armor, while Dark Angels wear lots of robes. These are merely differences in physical appearance and don't affect the rules in any way. So if you decide to play Ultramarines, but you really like the look of that White Scars guy on a bike, you can go ahead and paint him up in your colors and he is still perfectly legal.

As far as the background goes, there are lots and lots of books available. Some of the oldest ones are incredibly hard to find, though. The 2nd edition codexes had a lot of information in them, so you may ask around and see if anyone has a copy (however, the rules in 2nd edition were so different from today that they are totally incompatible).

A new Space Marine codex is coming out in October. You can certainly continue buying, assembling, and painting Space Marines for the next few months, but be careful about over-specializing. There is a "traits" system at the back of the current Space Marine codex that allows you to personalize your own Marine force. This traits system is going to go away in the next codex. It wasn't balanced and there were a lot of problems with it. If you focus on simply buying and assembling units as they are in the front of the book (i.e., without messing with the traits rules at all), then you will be fine when the new rules come out.

The background is what makes many people choose their army. I'll give you a quick breakdown of each of the big chapters.

Ultramarines are the true blue good guys. They are organized and efficient, wise and judicious. The worlds the Ultramarines control are some of the nicest places to live in the entire Imperium. The Ultramarines are like that guy in school who is smarter than you, is good at sports, and looks like Brad Pitt. And on top of that, he's nice. This is why a lot of people don't like them.

The Blood Angels are some of the most honored soldiers in the galaxy. They also are wise and kind. It is not enough for a Blood Angel to simply kill the bad guys -- they want to protect the innocent as well. They are pure of heart and favor hand to hand combat. They would be the perfect Marines, except... the Blood Angels have a terrible flaw. On the eve of a great battle, some of their warriors fall into madness and insanity. They become almost uncontrollable, and want nothing more than to slaughter their enemy and drink his blood. Once a warrior succumbs to the Black Rage, he is forever insane and will never recover. When the Black Rage hits them, they become vampires.

The Space Wolves are viking warriors. They want everybody to leave them the hell alone and stay out of their business. They grow lots of hair, have big wolf fangs, and like to get drunk and fight. They tell the Inquisition (the Imperium's secret police) to go screw themselves. The Space Wolves fight how, when, and who they wish. They are the most independent of chapters. They are the guy who moves out into the mountains, hooks up a generator so he makes his own electricity, and owns a lot of guns. They are loyal soldiers and love to fight the bad guys.

The Black Templars are crusading knights. Good? Bad? They kill bitches. They have never stopped crusading in 10 thousand years, always on the move, always looking for aliens, heretics, and traitors to kill. They prefer hand to hand combat, and their doctrines require them to stay on the move. As such, they lack a lot of long-range firepower (like Devastators and Whirlwinds), preferring close combat and mobile fire support that can keep up with their advance forces. Black Templars are no-nonsense badasses. Kill 'em all and let the Emperor sort 'em out.

The Dark Angels are the most secretive of chapters. Like the Space Wolves, they don't want anyone poking around in their business. But while the Space Wolves don't like it because they're just crazy independent, the Dark Angels don't like it because they know where the bodies are buried. The thing is, the Dark Angels were about this close to siding with Chaos way back in the day. They had a real short, real nasty civil war within their chapter when nobody else was looking. When the dust cleared, half of them were dead or missing, and the guys who were left claimed to be loyal to the Imperium. "Oh, those dead guys? Yeah, we were attacked by Chaos. ...You can go now." They have fought loyally since that date, though they'll drop absolutely everything to chase down one of the "traitors" who somehow escaped their little war. If that means leaving allies stranded in the middle of a battle, well, you've got to have priorities in life.

ChaplainAvorus96
01-07-2008, 04:42
Welcom GodsHammer! always glad to hear of a new space marine player! Though i must tell you of one more chapter that has its own codex, special models, and they forgot to mention, The Black Templar! in short, they are Crusaders, very zealous and like to rip things apart in close combat (though the Space Wolves probably can do one better haha.) I would sugest that you read up on the various chapters and find one that you like or that you think fits you. They posted some good sites, Wikipeida is another good one to. Another great thing is making your own Chapter and making your own backstory, colour scheme, iconography, etc, but its all up to you ;)

hush88
01-07-2008, 05:13
I have to say im amazed by the knowledge of the people in the Forums, i take my hat off to you all.

Ive very new to the WarHammer games and alot of the information i read from other threads really goes over my head. Where do you get all of your information?

ATM i am reading the Space Marine Codex and i find it very informative yet a little to much to retain.

I decided to go for the UltraMarines design,but now im thinking changing to something else as i now found out that they are the most popular. Now. Are all the Space Marine figures the same in design e.g. UltraMarines the same as White Scars and the only thing differences is the colour schemes and decals?

Knowing the back history, is that integral to playing the game?

I really hate being a noobie and being a 29yrd noobie is even worse...Ask me anything about a Nissan 200SX and im your man :D

I really hope you all go easy on me.

Cheers

Peter

Rules are integral, fluff (background) is for self satisfaction and enjoyment.
In terms of chapter, what everyone said is pretty much true. Whether you want Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Black Templars etc...really depends on the flavour you are looking for (as well as the paint scheme). Take a browse through GW's website where they have a gallery of different marine chapters and different colour scheme.

Apart from color scheme, some marine chapters do have their own codex, such as Black Templars, Dark Angels, Blood Angels (you can download this for free from GW) and Space Wolves, variation in rules that gives these chapters a slightly different feel. However, even if you paint all you marine blue, you can still use these codex, just make sure you inform your opponent before hand.;)

Oh...if you new to paint, try to stay away from light colors (white, yellow etc), they are a real &*%^$@ to paint. Having said, that Black Templars are the easiest to paint. :D


Now whats what i call a good responce. I understood all of that...I think lol.

So really its a good idea to read a little bit of the "Fluff" <iirc> to get a sort of feel to the Laws and Ideals of various Gods/ Emperor's type personage?

So which SM are classed as good with positive Law's etc and which are the down right bad boys?

I read that its possible to start your own "chapter"? My understanding is you can choose your own theme's and "Fluff" to give that particular "chapter" some depth and realism?

Some chapters have never been given a properly define background. so there is a lot of room to come up with some back story of your own. Alternatively, given that there are a 1000 marine chapters and only few has every been logged, you can come up with you own color scheme and your own personalise background story for the symbology/artefacts for you own chapter, oh....own chapter name as well. Of course you would still have to build your army based on one of the marine codex.


I think ill finish off the Battle for Macragge and my 2 tactical squads in Ultramarine blue and have a couple of games and see how that goes. I think ill probably look at researching other areas of SM.

Ive spent a fare few hours painting and gluing. I totally love it. Its a real break from the norm of life.

Any information and advice will always be appreciated.

This is always the fun bit of the hobby:D. Until the day where that pile of grey plastic is 10 feet high....it will happen sooner or later...perils of this hobby...


So the Tactical Squad that you can buy in a box of 10 is a generic SM squad?
As mentioned above there are a vast amount of extra peices available for each Chapter, does that mean there are particular peices that only go with say Ultramarines and no other Chapter? If i want to buy a particular peice will it tell me on the box that that part only belongs to a certain Chapter?

What book would you reccomend i have a read of for some Fluff?

I have used the search button and i couldnt find noobie section with Q/A.

Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions.

Fluff? Black Library has got some good books for some well known chapters (Space Wolves, Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Dark Angels etc) as well as some unknown (Brothers of the Snake). You might want to try Wikipedia, they have got some decent infomation on 40K.

Luck!!

GodsHammer
01-07-2008, 09:28
I just want to say a massive thank you for all your coments and information.

Since i decided to go down the UltraMarine route i am going for the 6th Company colour scheme, loving the look of blue and gold.

So for a full working army the basics are:-

1 x Captain
1 x Chaplain
1 x Apothecary
1 x Standard Bearer

10 peice Tactical Squad

2 Dreadnaughts
2 Rhinos
2 Land Raiders

Would that be a strong enough Company to start with?

Ill check out Wiki and the GW website. Any free information is always good as long as its accurate.

ankara halla
01-07-2008, 09:37
While you can split your tactical squad as two 5 man squads, it would be highly recommendable to get another 10 man squad to bulk up your force. Marines are allmost allways outnumbered anyway, so you'll need all the bodies you can get.

With that in mind, two Land Riders is a bit excessive. While the LR will be a heck of a lot better in 5th ed than it is now (most consider a LR a point sink under 4th edition, and with good cause...) it's still a very expensive tank points wise, you could get 20 kitted out marines instead. But it is hellacool... even so, I'd drop one of them and if you absolutely, positively have to have one, get some assault terminators to go with it. Throw in the Chaplain with them and you've got a very powerful one kick pony.

As to apothecary and standard bearer, under current rules you'll need a few extra guys to make it a command squad. You can't get them in an UM army without one. Personally I'd wait for the new codex to come out before getting those guys. You'll have plenty to paint in the mean time with your troops and vehicles to pass the time 'till marines get their new codex.

Chaplain Mortez
01-07-2008, 10:32
I just want to say a massive thank you for all your coments and information.

Since i decided to go down the UltraMarine route i am going for the 6th Company colour scheme, loving the look of blue and gold.

So for a full working army the basics are:-

1 x Captain
1 x Chaplain
1 x Apothecary
1 x Standard Bearer

10 peice Tactical Squad

2 Dreadnaughts
2 Rhinos
2 Land Raiders

Would that be a strong enough Company to start with?

Ill check out Wiki and the GW website. Any free information is always good as long as its accurate.

Can't go wrong with Ultramarines! They are the ones who will probably expect the least amount of changes over time (I play Black Templars--the change over from Armageddon to their current Codex had a few inconveniences), this edition to the next.

Most people shoot to have about 2k points worth of models, while games are played at either 1200, 1500, or 1850. The 2k will let you have some flexibility when writing army lists, in addition to helping you sort out a play style.

First and foremost, I would recommend only one of those HQ choices: either the Chaplain or the Captain. You should consider buying/making both, along with a Librarian, just to see how different your army functions when you swap one out for another. The point is that these are very expensive models (points wise), and you're limiting the number of other units you could take.

In addition, go for the Apothecary and Standard Bearer later. That's not to say they are horrible to use, but you want to try using plain tactical squads first before you dive into more specialized troops such as these or Veterans. You have to buy a command squad on top of that (i.e. you can't have just the Apothecary and SB, you have to have 3 more marines to meet the minimum requirement).

A good rule of thumb I find for any army is to take no less than 4 troop choices, 5 is better, 6 is optimal. As is right now, you only have two units that really can't function well. Go grab at least three more boxes of Marines, or a few units of scouts. These are your bread-and-butter units. They will do most of your fighting. As such, you can't go wrong with running 4 units of 8~10 Marines with Assault and Heavy weapons.

2 Rhinos is a good start. Try them out for a few games. If you find them useful, go ahead and pick up a rhino for each of your tactical squads. I tend to find them extremely useful for delivering troops, grabbing objectives, and serving as movable pieces of terrain.

Can't go wrong with 2 dreadnoughts using any combination of weapons you see fit. I would wait to put together your tactical squads and count what kind of weapons you have. Do you have lots of anti-tank? Lots of hoard control? Lots of anti-heavy armor (i.e. power, terminator, mega-armor)? Take a look at the one you have the least of in your tactical squads, and then assemble your dreadnoughts to make up for any weaknesses.

I wouldn't use two Land Raiders in anything under 2.5k in any edition. One is enough. The thing to consider, however, is that you can almost get 2 predators for the price (in points) of one Land Raider. That's definitely something to consider because you get more weapons and have more units (2 vehicles with front armor 13 is better than one vehicle with 14). Whirlwinds and Vindicators are other great options for your army. I would use your tanks in the same way as your dreadnoughts: find what kind of weapons are lacking in your army and equip your tanks accordingly.

Here's a sample of my 1850 Black Templar army (note: it has different rules and points values, especially the Emperor's Champion and Power Weapons taken instead of heavy weapons, but it should give you an idea of how big a Marine army is):

HQ

Chaplain
• Reclusiarch
• Bolt Pistol
• Frag Grenades

My mandatory HQ choice. Cheap and effective.

Emperor’s Champion
• Vow: Accept Any Challenge—No Matter the Odds

Black Templar special character. He's also mandatory and functions much like a captain (if I could, I would just use him in the army and not the Chaplain and buy another tactical squad).

Elites

Dreadnought
• Twin-Linked Lascannon
• Missile Launcher
• Extra Armor

Dreadnought
• Heavy Flamer
• Assault Cannon
• Smoke Launchers
• Extra Armor

Two dreadnoughts--one anti-infantry, the other anti-tank. I use these to support my Marines by either hiding them in cover to prevent counter-attacks or moving them up behind my rhinos.

Troops

Tactical Squad
• 9 Initiates, 144 pts.
• Power Weapon, 10 pts.
• Rhino
• Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter
• Smoke Launchers and Extra Armor

Initiates are the same thing as Tactical Marines. They just have a different name because they're a different chapter (Space Wolves are called "Blood Claws, if I recall correctly)! Thought I would point this out since you may decide to call your troops different names than what's in the codex. This particular unit goes with the Chaplain and functions as a shock-trooper unit meant for wiping out enemies in hand-to-hand.

Tactical Squad
• 8 Initiates
• Heavy Bolter and Plasma Gun
• Rhino
• Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter
• Smoke Launchers and Extra Armor

Tactical Squad
• 8 Initiates
• Heavy Bolter and Plasma Gun
• Rhino
• Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter
• Smoke Launchers and Extra Armor

Two identical units meant for taking and holding objectives. They move up in the rhino, the tank blows its smoke to provide cover, and then they move onto the enemy or objective. I took heavy bolters and plasma guns because these provide good all-round weapons against enemy infantry.

Tactical Squad
• 8 Initiates
• Heavy Bolter
• Plasma Gun

Tactical Squad
• 8 Initiates
• Plasma Cannon
• Plasma Gun

These two units form a base of fire in my deployment zone, shooting at enemies that may pose threats to my marines moving up in rhinos and dreadnoughts. I also will sit them above objectives, just to thin down my opponent's units or pose a threat.

Heavy Support

Vindicator
• Extra Armor
• Smoke Launchers

A vindicator. It vindicates things. I move this bad-boy up with my rhinos because it attracts a lot of fire (which is good--the tactical squads are by far more valuable). In addition, once in range, I use it to inflict horrendous casualties on my opponent, providing short-range fire support for nearby units.

Predator Annihilator
• Lascannon Side Sponsors
• Extra Armor
• Dozer Blade

Predator Destructor
• Heavy Bolter Side Sponsors
• Pintle-Mounted Storm Bolter
• Extra Armor
• Smoke Launchers

One anti-tank, one anti-infantry. These are kind of the counter-parts to my dreadnoughts, in that they sit back with my regular marines without rhinos whereas my dreadnoughts move up. Predators are the bread and butter of the tanks of the marines. Very versatile and effective.

Hope this was useful! Good luck and welcome to the hobby!

GodsHammer
01-07-2008, 13:17
I have just been out to Hobby Craft and bought a SM Devastator Squad and a SM Commander with a couple of paints. I was looking at geting the Dreadnaught but i couldnt fork up an extra £25 for it, my missus would kill me lol.

I see you talk about points alot i take it that thats how much damage one trooper/machine can take at anyone time?

So i have:

37 Troops = 555 points
1 Commander = 75 points

Total points = 630 points

Ill look at geting some heavy artillary soon.

Chaplain Mortez
01-07-2008, 13:29
You are correct. You and your opponent will agree upon a certain number of points before the game, and then write your army list within the given points values and in accordance to the restrictions of each unit and the force organization chart.

I also forgot regular marines get devastators! :p
Good choice since they are just as sturdy as a tank and give up mobility for some better defense.

Looks like you got 633 points so far, you say? Add in about 6 special weapons to the tactical squads, 4 heavy weapons for the devastators, 4 sergeants, and give your commander some gear and you got yourself around 1000 points.

Magister
01-07-2008, 14:55
If you ever make your own chapter, taking bits from other races sprues can be quite fun, not only does it give you unlimited convertion option, but can help make for some interesting fluffy stuff

RazielZian
01-07-2008, 16:19
If you ever make your own chapter, taking bits from other races sprues can be quite fun, not only does it give you unlimited convertion option, but can help make for some interesting fluffy stuff

Be careful with this, trophies are fine but if you start adding in xeno tech then you no longer have a loyalist company.

spagunk
01-07-2008, 18:43
I have just been out to Hobby Craft and bought a SM Devastator Squad and a SM Commander with a couple of paints. I was looking at geting the Dreadnaught but i couldnt fork up an extra £25 for it, my missus would kill me lol.

I see you talk about points alot i take it that thats how much damage one trooper/machine can take at anyone time?

So i have:

37 Troops = 555 points
1 Commander = 75 points

Total points = 630 points

Ill look at geting some heavy artillary soon.

Typically, the point value is listed in the corresponding codex. These value indicate the worth of the model in general with no upgrades. Along the way, certain models may be able to get additional gear or upgrades to their weapons. This will increase the cost and subsequently will increase the total number of points in your army.

However, point totals are calculated based on a unit rather than individual models. The example here being a 10 man Tactical squad: The unit listing will state that the cost of the unit is based on the number of marines times the point value for each marine (with a minimum of 5 marines per tactical squad). From there, each upgrade or piece of gear increases the cost of the unit. Once you have settled on the unit layout, you should have the total value of the unit. Each unit adds up to a total amount of points in your army. This is how the 4th edition Space Marine codex works.

I play blood angels myself and the base cost for each unit is calculated different. Instead of multiplying the cost of marines verses the number of marines per tactical squad, I pay X amount of points for a 5 man squad, then +X amount of points for an additional 5 men. This means i can only ever have 5 or 10 men per tactical squad. From there, I add points to the unit depending on which upgrades i choose. This will give me the total cost of my squad. It is my understanding that the new Space marine codex will behave in a similar manner.

My point here is that point totals are based on units rather that specific models. So you may very well have more than 630 points worth of figures. Like everyone states, the new space marine codex is going to have tonnes of updates that may change the value of your figures so it is important to be ready for that when it comes.

Spartacus the bemused
01-07-2008, 20:00
Be careful with this, trophies are fine but if you start adding in xeno tech then you no longer have a loyalist company.
Well, it would still technically be loyalist, but going the way of the Relictors, and that is a dangerous path to tread.

Plus, you can go overboard with 'addition conversions' (which is basically gluing stuff from other sprues to the model) - believe me, I suffered terribly from this when I first started and was collecting DE; I basically stuck zombie bits all over my Raiders and Warriors. It looked like they'd crashed into a slaughterhouse. Then a cemetary. And then a Butcher's. It was a mess.

My current Guard are much more clean, and nowhere near as top heavy and cluttered as my Gorefest Warriors :D.

GodsHammer
01-07-2008, 23:51
When im making up my squads there are always bits left over and i really dont want to clutter the peices. As you already know there is always 10 small machine guns, 1 flamerthrower unit, 1 big machine gun.

I tend ot favour using the biger gunn and flame thrower unit over the smaller guns. Does this make any difference than say using only the small machine guns?

Also, this will make me sound daft but i dont know how to describe it in any other way. It looks like a PKE Meter from Ghostbusters...can anyone tell me what it is and what does it do?

cheers

Champsguy
02-07-2008, 00:26
When im making up my squads there are always bits left over and i really dont want to clutter the peices. As you already know there is always 10 small machine guns, 1 flamerthrower unit, 1 big machine gun.

I tend ot favour using the biger gunn and flame thrower unit over the smaller guns. Does this make any difference than say using only the small machine guns?

Also, this will make me sound daft but i dont know how to describe it in any other way. It looks like a PKE Meter from Ghostbusters...can anyone tell me what it is and what does it do?

cheers


A tactical squad can carry one special and one heavy weapon. The flamethrower (called a "flamer") is a special weapon. It will cost you a couple of points to add on to one of your marines, but it changes the way he shoots. The big machine gun (called a "heavy bolter") is a heavy weapon. You can't move and fire that one, but it is a lot more powerful than the standard little machine guns ("bolters") that your guys carry. So yes, it will make a difference in how your squads work, but that's okay, because they are pretty much an improvement over the standard weapons. You squad will just cost more.

The PKE meter is called an "auspex", and it is a sensor that allows... well, I actually forget what it allows. I play Dark Angels, and they can't use an auspex. I'm pretty sure they're going to eliminate the rules for this item in the new codex. I think it allows you to shoot before the game begins at guys who infiltrate, but I don't remember for sure.

RazielZian
02-07-2008, 01:16
the auspex only really has any use in the night fight scenario, it allows the marine to detect the location of enemies he wouldn't otherwise be able to see.

hush88
02-07-2008, 04:16
I just want to say a massive thank you for all your coments and information.

Since i decided to go down the UltraMarine route i am going for the 6th Company colour scheme, loving the look of blue and gold.

So for a full working army the basics are:-

1 x Captain
1 x Chaplain
1 x Apothecary
1 x Standard Bearer

10 peice Tactical Squad

2 Dreadnaughts
2 Rhinos
2 Land Raiders

Would that be a strong enough Company to start with?

Ill check out Wiki and the GW website. Any free information is always good as long as its accurate.


I have just been out to Hobby Craft and bought a SM Devastator Squad and a SM Commander with a couple of paints. I was looking at geting the Dreadnaught but i couldnt fork up an extra £25 for it, my missus would kill me lol.

I see you talk about points alot i take it that thats how much damage one trooper/machine can take at anyone time?

So i have:

37 Troops = 555 points
1 Commander = 75 points

Total points = 630 points

Ill look at geting some heavy artillary soon.

Regarding tactics, Grand Master Raziel has a space marine tactica somewhere on the web. It is worth looking at. That is until 5th edition becomes official.

In terms of models, looking at what you already have, you should get
1. 10 men tactical squad
2. 10 men assault squad
3. expand your devastator squad by another 5 to 10 men as well.

This should give you the necessary basics to form a fairly balance army.
When you have developed a "taste" for certain tactics, then proceed to purchase the necessary models.

Dont get too carried away buying minis....we all do that....that's when the pile of plastic grey grows.
Also, there will always be extra bits. Keep them. They are useful for future usage. Whether for a change of equipment or conversion purposes, there will be a use for it.

SpineyBeef
02-07-2008, 05:49
GodsHammer:
I'm new to the forums but I've been playing off and on since 2nd edition. I've ALWAYS been more interested in the vehicles and characters than standard troops... but when you realize how outnumbered you'll be in an average game with so few troops, you'll start to see their value. You should probably lose a couple vehicles and/or characters and stick in more troops (whether they're standard tactical squads, assault squads, or devastators).

Think about it like this... With the army that you posted, you have less than 20 models. It will take 20 hits/wounds to destory your army... but if you trade in that second LR for 20 more troops (someone pointed this out), you double the number of times your opponent has to hit and wound/penetrate. All your eggs aren't in one basket, so to speak. =P

Focus on troops first, and add your favorite vehicles. See how the vehicles function in games and if you love how Dreadnoughts play, buy another!

GodsHammer
02-07-2008, 09:53
GodsHammer:
I'm new to the forums but I've been playing off and on since 2nd edition. I've ALWAYS been more interested in the vehicles and characters than standard troops... but when you realize how outnumbered you'll be in an average game with so few troops, you'll start to see their value. You should probably lose a couple vehicles and/or characters and stick in more troops (whether they're standard tactical squads, assault squads, or devastators).

Think about it like this... With the army that you posted, you have less than 20 models. It will take 20 hits/wounds to destory your army... but if you trade in that second LR for 20 more troops (someone pointed this out), you double the number of times your opponent has to hit and wound/penetrate. All your eggs aren't in one basket, so to speak. =P

Focus on troops first, and add your favorite vehicles. See how the vehicles function in games and if you love how Dreadnoughts play, buy another!


Ive not bought any vehicles or Dreadnoughts yet, im more focused on the troop side to start with. All i have at the moment is

1 Commander
3 x 10 Tactical Squad
1 x 5 Devestator Squad

I just dont want to over buy on the troops, but i know they are integeral to any battle.

Magister
02-07-2008, 19:19
The Relictors eh? I have an idea now....

LokkoRex
02-07-2008, 20:29
go to wikipedia, i've found almost everything i know about 40k(except the rules and a big load of pictures) there. the primarchs history is a particularly pleasant read i think.

EDIT: uhm, dude, wait until the new edition of the rules come out until you buy anything far to big, cause am i true in believing yo don't have the current rulebook? if you have the current rulebook, give it a LONG readthrough,

boogle
02-07-2008, 21:03
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Main_Page this may help you immensly


If you are doing the 6th company, they will all be tactical squads, however 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th companies consist of:
Captain
Command Unit (Company Champion, Apothecary, Standard Bearer, then minimum of 2 others)
Chaplain
6 Tactical Squads
2 Assault Squads
2 Devastator Squads
Dreadnoughts

Spartacus the bemused
02-07-2008, 21:56
Boogle posted a link to the lexicanum just before me.

But pretty much just try the GW website, not only the UK one but the US and Australian ones too, any White Dwarfs you can get your hands on, libraries sometimes have a few knocking around, or car-boot and yard sales can sometime snet you some for dirt cheap - White Dwarfs usually have a whole load of background fluff and info in them.

If all else fails, google stuff and just surf. A lot of it is rubbish, admittedly, but several sites are good.

hush88
03-07-2008, 04:14
Ive not bought any vehicles or Dreadnoughts yet, im more focused on the troop side to start with. All i have at the moment is

1 Commander
3 x 10 Tactical Squad
1 x 5 Devestator Squad

I just dont want to over buy on the troops, but i know they are integeral to any battle.

Ok....that is what you have then you should get following;

5 Devastator marines
10 Assault marines
3 Rhinos
1 Chaplain
1 Librarian
2 Vindicators or 2 Predators

This should be enough for you to have decent games to start with and some variety of troop choices.