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View Full Version : Something that I wanted to know for a while...



chaos0xomega
01-07-2008, 21:05
In this image:
http://library.galciv2.com/mvlib/ss/Fullview_emperor-horus.jpg

what chapter are the marines standing behind/to the sides of the Emperor from?

I KNOW they are not the Sons of Horus (because THOSE marines are quite clearly standing BEHIND Horus), they can't be Custodes(they are wearing Black, not Gold), they don't seem to be sporting chapter colors of any other Chapter I've seen before (in terms of pre-heresy colors. I think maybe the DA wore Black, but they were totally black IIRC, they did not have the gold and red emblems, nor the silver linings), etc.

Also, what pattern power armor are they wearing?

MrBigMr
01-07-2008, 21:24
I think it's Mk. 3 Iron Armour by the mask of the helmet, but the chest has an aquila (or something other winged), so could be an a artistic freedom or just special issue armour. Didn't the Imperial Fists board the ship with E? But I would put my money on more Chaos marine (you know the rules of two big guys battling out, no one is to step in until the bad guy calls for his henchmen to slay the hero), since wasn't Sanguinus and E the only loyalist ones to witness the battle?

Killgore
01-07-2008, 21:26
many elite warriors joined the emperor on his assault on Horus's battlebarge

i place my bet on some type of custodes warrior

Col. Dash
01-07-2008, 21:29
If you look on their left pauldrons they have that gold eagle head on a red background. The missing legion! :P

Fhadhq
01-07-2008, 21:32
The warriors behind the Emperor didn't wear black or gold. :confused:

When teleporting to Horus ship, Custodes were the emperors obvious choice
to follow him aboard. All loyal troopers at this scene may belong to his
primarchs (if marines) or the custodes.A lot of pre-heresy gear is not showed
often and some are only "artists impressions". ;)

IMHO those behind the emperor wear ancient armor in a metal color.
The loyal marines got to the confrontation when it was over.
:D must be custodes then.

heretics bane
01-07-2008, 21:32
I think it's Mk. 3 Iron Armour by the mask of the helmet, but the chest has an aquila (or something other winged), so could be an a artistic freedom or just special issue armour. Didn't the Imperial Fists board the ship with E? But I would put my money on more Chaos marine (you know the rules of two big guys battling out, no one is to step in until the bad guy calls for his henchmen to slay the hero), since wasn't Sanguinus and E the only loyalist ones to witness the battle?

But only the emporers children where permitted to wear the sign of the aquila along with the custodes, so my money would be on custodes.

But wasnt the fight between Horus and the Emporer just them? or they both killed everything within a certain proximity as they fought with the shear power of there blows?

MrBigMr
01-07-2008, 21:36
What about Sisters of Silence?

chaos0xomega
01-07-2008, 21:36
Well, the actual background SAYS they were the only two, but the artist for that image obviously threw that out the window(as there are Sons of Horus standing on the opposite side of the image...). I wish I could just ask the artist him/herself, as I would love to do an army of those guys... whatever they are... and I HATE marines.

heretics bane
01-07-2008, 21:39
What about Sisters of Silence?

Ah never though of them, explains why the bolters seem abit slimer and the marines less bulky....who knows?

Gimp
01-07-2008, 21:48
Well the guys on the left have the Eye of Horus and the guys on the right have the Imperial Egal.

PondaNagura
01-07-2008, 21:52
this came up a few months ago.
most likely custodes. there are similar style/dark iron helmets in other images of them,but with the traditional golden armor. where as the guy in the back of Horus are SoH.
in the actual event, it was just the two Big'unz, and the dead Sang. those guys are more of a framing device so your eyes are more drawn to Horus and BigE, and to kind of mark how momentous this confrontation is supposed to be.

whats interesting to note is that all but one SoH have no helmets, whereas the custodes are the equal opposite.

MrBigMr
01-07-2008, 21:53
I just thought about Sisters since while the armour is not skin tight, I do remember them carrying Aquilas, having dark armour and I believe seeing a picture of them having a red plume (or something like that) on their head and doesn't that one in the back have such a thing (my screen is a little dark, so can make it out)?

chaos0xomega
01-07-2008, 21:59
Yeah, the one in the back has the red plume, but the rest are all running around with spikes popping out of the helmets instead.

PondaNagura
01-07-2008, 22:11
they aren't any thinner than the SoH. yes one has a red topknot, but the fella next to 'em is def a guy. and the armor has the lightning bolts on it which was held by the soldiers of the Terrawatt Clan, who later became the custodes.
even though the EC were the only legion to bear the aquilla, the custodes weren't a legion, they were barely 3000 of 'em during the GC. and since they are BigE's personal bodyguard i think they can get away with having a few eagleheads.

http://www.adriansmith.co.uk/sales/large/c_as_2069.html

chaos0xomega
01-07-2008, 22:15
Yep, those are definitely custodes(judging by the helmets), who I believe actually wore artificer armor?

But why are the entire suits black? I thought they wore gold and switcehd to black after the emperors death?

PondaNagura
01-07-2008, 22:17
framing device

gold on gold would require more extremes of contrast to define the edges of where BigE ends and the custodes begin. plus it would either detract from the central figures; or pushing them to the edges would unbalance the whole scene...plus it could be a portent of bad things (dead Sang), or of events to come.

Paul Nexus
01-07-2008, 22:35
Well, the final conflict is supposed to be just Horus and The Emperor. Nothing says that they didn't start off with soldiers alongside them. Either they all got killed fighting each other and caught up in the Horus/Emperor battle, or their leaders used the whole 'leave us...' thing and got on with it.

I would agree with either custodes, pre-Imperium, or one of the lost legions. Mostly custodes though. I thought they wore gold while protecting the Golden throne? Could be they are wearing specific armour for this confrontation which happens to be that colour.

Progena
01-07-2008, 22:43
Probably Custodes in sensible armour. You don't want to board a ship in poity hats, perhaps they dug up some old issue armour?

chaos0xomega
01-07-2008, 23:10
or their leaders used the whole 'leave us...' thing and got on with it.

"So.... uhhh... you Sons of Horus guys like blow?"

lol, sorry I had to.

Lothlanathorian
01-07-2008, 23:17
The EC were the FIRST legion to be allowed to wear the Aquila, not the only. The Sons of Horus were the first to remove it from their armor, remember? So, if they were the first to take it off, then how could only the EC have worn it?

Norminator
01-07-2008, 23:37
Is it possible that the armour is the dulled metallic colour because it's all rapid replacements/repairs issues during the seige? I can't imagine painting the rapidly hammered out armour pads or issued spare sets of armour was top priority.

chaos0xomega
02-07-2008, 00:56
Well, if they're Custodes, I doubt they would have been seeing much replacements. When I first heard of Custodes, oh so many years ago, I was told that the armor they wore was "beyond power armor, it was even beyond termie armor, it was like super-artificer armor."

More interesting is the fact(I think) that they are all wearing it, and it's mostly uniform in appearance(very little variation from what I can see), which suggests to me that it wasn't replacements/replacement parts(because then SOMEONE other than the emperor would have been wearing gold), but rather issue armor. Is it possible that perhaps the Custodes made the switch after Horus betrayal instead of after the Emperors death (as a symbolic act perhaps?)?

More interesting still, is this the armor that the custodes adopted post-heresy and now wear(or wait... they went nude afterwards?).

LexxBomb
02-07-2008, 03:33
if they were custodes the insignia on the shoulders wouyld be the thunderbolt. Custodes never changed their insignia. hell today (in the 41 millenium) they still have the thunder bolt.

I would say the are Sons of Horus given the same colour scheme on horus's armnour and theirs

AdmiralDick
02-07-2008, 10:10
what chapter are the marines standing behind/to the sides of the Emperor from?

the indiscript legion?

honestly i think there is not enough information to make a realistic judgement on. the only way you could answer this question is to write a letter to the artist.

my guess would be the Legio Custodes though. whilst this is a rather radical change of appearence for them (no gold pointy hats and halberds), it was an image that started off a rather radical re-imagining of what the pre-heresy world looked like.


Also, what pattern power armor are they wearing?

again, they are wearing Mk? "Imaginary Armour".

this picture was obviously part of the HH card game and the artists were given a lot of freedom to play around with what the different marks of armour looked like. before, most marks had a distinct and set appearence, but in the card game there were much fewer unique markers for individual armour types (if individual armour types were used at all!) so unless the artist has something in mind, that is not immeadiately obvious to us (like its supposed to be Mk3 armour with some important changes), then i would imagine its just a hodge-podge of imagery that looks cool.


Well, the actual background SAYS they were the only two,

which background?

there are about 4 or 5 different re-tellings of the final battle (that's if we exclude pictures of it, which are just as valuable in background terms as words are) and they all have subtle but important differences. there are all manner of people present depending on which account you take as having primacy.

PondaNagura
02-07-2008, 22:26
well the one in the HH artbook, which is where the image is from, is the good old tale of BigE, Sang & Dorn teleports aboard but get separated..BigE leads his scattered custodes squad throughout twisted corridors, gibbering daemon-things, etc etc, until they all die and he is alone. finds Horus over Sang's body, they fight. loan custodes enters, gets obliterated, and BigE holds nothing back realizing Horus is completely evil.

Wolfblade670
11-08-2008, 22:33
...loan custodes enters, gets obliterated, and BigE holds nothing back realizing Horus is completely evil.

It was Trooper Olanius Pious DAMN IT! Hero of the Imperium and Patron Saint of the Emperor's Infinite Legions! I can't believe those lousy GW Marine fanbois stole the Guard's greatest moment of glory: that as awsome as the Emperor's genetically engineered golden boys are, that it was a lowley Imperial Guardsman whose sacfice enabled the Emperor's victory. Of all the things GW has retconned, this is one of the one's I hate the most.

Seriously, between a genetically engineered psychic in Terminator armor and a normal human being who charged the Avatar of the Chaos Gods with nothing but a bayonet, which do you think has more balls, hmm?

EDIT: Sorry for the OT post but I just had to say something.

Chem-Dog
12-08-2008, 00:08
this picture was obviously part of the HH card game

You know, I honestly don't think that it's that at all, I remember a load of stuff about this Adrian Smith piece, I don't think it's a HH card image.


Of all the things GW has retconned, this is one of the one's I hate the most.

Except it wasn't actually retconned, the more accepted version of events existed previous to the (one and only) mention Olianus Pious.

chaos0xomega
12-08-2008, 01:05
I heard the Olianus Pious story well before the Custodes version (and there was an Imperial Fists version as well, wasn't there?)

Wolfblade670
12-08-2008, 01:47
Except it wasn't actually retconned, the more accepted version of events existed previous to the (one and only) mention Olianus Pious.

I remember reading it in a 1990 White Dwarf, so it's at least that old

EDIT: And yes, there was a version where it was an Imperial Fist Terminator as well.

I wouldn't mind the varitions if GW wasn't going to actually explore the Heresy. The multiple versions are a natural evolution of a distant legend, as the Heresy originally as. That's what I liked about it. But now that GW is doing the HH novels which tell you exactly what happened here will be no room for variations, and when the time comes for the last novel and Horus battle the Emperor, it will be either a Custodes or and Imperial Fist who will save the Emperor, not Trooper Pious (though it could easily be argued that Pious was in fact made up as a propaganda tool for the Imperial Guard, I mean, his last name is Pious, kind of convinient, but I like the Guard having their holy warrior so I hope I'm wrong.)

PondaNagura
12-08-2008, 01:49
Hmm, Realms of Chaos: LatD has it written as a 'terminator'...i guess later it was changed to custodian.

edit: realms of chaos, also from 1990.

olmsted
12-08-2008, 01:51
im almost positive its just artistic freedom in keeping with the dark in grim and dark. if you have the book look in the guard codex and within the first few pages you can see a pic at the bottom of the page of what seems like mordian guard. however among their ranks you can see 3-5 eight pointed stars of chaos.

PondaNagura
12-08-2008, 02:10
those are penitent wheels...it was to add to the over-zealous nature of the guard back in 2nd-3rd edition. not really chaos, just fanatical. look at the old zealots from sisters of battle in the first chapter approved book...or even ordo hereticus in general.

Wolfblade670
12-08-2008, 02:20
those are penitent wheels...it was to add to the over-zealous nature of the guard back in 2nd-3rd edition. not really chaos, just fanatical. look at the old zealots from sisters of battle in the first chapter approved book...or even ordo hereticus in general.

Ah. For the longest time I had been wondering about those. Thanks.

olmsted
12-08-2008, 03:36
moridant dont seem to be like the ones to use penitent wheels. also where did you even come up with that? never heard of them

Logarithm Udgaur
12-08-2008, 04:23
"So.... uhhh... you Sons of Horus guys like blow?"

lol, sorry I had to.

Funniest thing I have read on Warseer in at least 2 months!

WrYpoRrY
12-08-2008, 19:34
The best guess is Custodes, but it said somewhere that the big E. was trying to reason with Horus, not believing his favourite son could be evil. Then an Imperial Fist marine ran into the room and Horus flays him alive (where you take someone's skin off in one huge piece all at once) by looking at him. Then of course the E. realises that Horus is evil so he gets the strength to kill him. So the marines behind the Emperor might be Imperial Fists with different armour.

olmsted
13-08-2008, 03:36
it was a guardsmen!

icegreentea
13-08-2008, 03:39
it was a guardsmen!

It was a guardsman, an Imperial Fist, and a Custodes. Depends on your version of fluff. As far as I'm considered, until the current HH series gets to that point, all three are equally valid, explained away by the whole 'time of myth' thing.

Personally I like the guardsman.

LexxBomb
13-08-2008, 06:58
It was a guardsman, an Imperial Fist, and a Custodes. Depends on your version of fluff. As far as I'm considered, until the current HH series gets to that point, all three are equally valid, explained away by the whole 'time of myth' thing.

Personally I like the guardsman.

im just waiting for it to become an eldar was killed by Horus:D

olmsted
13-08-2008, 07:11
nah it was an orky necron hybrid.

Grimbad
13-08-2008, 07:41
I thought Mr. Pious threw himself on a sword for the Emperor at another point in the siege of terra.
And weren't the Guard called the Army at the time?

Lord Dante
13-08-2008, 09:21
Shock news just in: Artist uses artistic license to depict a scene!!!

chaos0xomega
13-08-2008, 18:11
Yes, Guard was Army, but the Army became the Guard in the same way that the Space Marine Legions became Space Marine Chapters.

LexxBomb
14-08-2008, 11:35
Shock news just in: Artist uses artistic license to depict a scene!!!

yes and all BL staff shopuld be forced to read the Fluff Bible ( in a Clock Work Orange method)