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huitzilopochtli
01-07-2008, 22:01
Hi all,

I've recently started using high elves and my battle record isn't that great. So far I've suffered 5 losses and only managed to win 2 (and draw 1).

I've found that putting my BSB in my white lions with the battle banner is a surefire winning strategy - it gave me both of my victories, which were massacres - but I'd like to diversify a bit. My other troops include phoenix guard, swordmasters, shadow warriors, sea guard, archers and a lion chariot. What advice can you give to help me utilize these more effectively and lessen my reliance on the white lions?

Thanks
H

OldMaster
01-07-2008, 22:07
High Elf uses? you mean, them being pretty tasty when baked on a slow fire for a few hours? :|

Oooh, such uses.

I don't know how you manage to love your White Lions more than Swordmasters - I just can't understand.
Basically, I've never seen a unit Swordmasters lose a SINGLE battle. Support them with BSB, chariots andshooting if you want - but they don't need it.

Fideru
01-07-2008, 22:19
Basically, I've never seen a unit Swordmasters lose a SINGLE battle. Support them with BSB, chariots andshooting if you want - but they don't need it.

I've got to say the opposite, I haven't seen Swordmasters win battles on their own against units of equal points.

Well, I'm assuming you're going for the complete elite army? What about Dragon Princes? Reavers?

As well, what OTHER things happened during those two massacres? Look back at those games. The BSB and White Lions could not have done it completely on their own.

huitzilopochtli
02-07-2008, 14:51
ok well allow me to explain a little...

i've only had the swordmasters in one battle so far whereas my lions have been in every battle. as such they've had more of a chance to prove themselves. also, i play against dwarfs mostly and a 3+ AS is invaluable against S4 shooting.

i'm used to playing with lizardmen more than elves, and i'm finding the lack of mobility difficult to cope with. i use the white lions like i used my kroxigor; a high strength flank protector that's more mobile than the rest of my army. i need to know how to use the rest of my infantry blocks effectively.

I'm afraid i don't own any cavalry except for the chariot as i wanted an infantry heavy army.

As for my massacres, they went something like this -
HE vrs OaG
my bolt thrower and archers shot up one unit of savage orcs and killed most of it.
my phoenix guard and sea guard (or possibly spearmen) sat in the middle of the field and did very little.
my lions with BSB went up right flank through forests, charged the flank of a unit of savage orcs, broke them, ran into another unit (goblins i think) broke them in the next round, ran into a third unit, and so on so forth.

HE vrs dwarfs. the exact same, except my phoenix guard helped to hold the enemy in the middle of the field and my archers and bolt thrower didnt do as well.

Condottiere
02-07-2008, 16:37
Despite what some may believe, Sword Masters attract a great deal of attention from artillery and other direct fire damage units. Always screen them.

Phoenix Guard are the HE anvil. Most units break against them.

Dragon Princes are the hammers. The danger is letting them get sucked into prolonged combat.

White Lions are for ambushes and other unpleasant shocks.

Forget Silver Helms. Reavers might be useful for blocking and hunter-killer.

Chariots need not be explained. One unit of Shadow Warriors will always keep your opponent on his toes. If not, it's a hunting we will go, a hunting ...

Marwynn
02-07-2008, 22:19
The White Lions are also fairly solid on their own. Give them the Lion Banner and array them in a 5x? formation and you have a Stubborn unit that's Immune to Terror. That ASFs with S6 weapons.

It's not the "killing" formation, but if you field 15 of them you can swap between 5x3 or 7x2+1 as it warrants vs your opponent. The PG should always be 5-wide unless they're screening in one massive rank.

And Reavers are useful for marchblocking and so on. Get the bow upgrade or sidegrade.

And yes, Sword Masters get shot at and rightfully so. A unit of Sword Masters (starting from 14 or so) reduced to a mere 5 could seriously destroy most Core infantry blocks on its own. Then again, they can also fluff all their attacks and get run down as they run away.

I'm saying this a lot but head on over to Ulthuan.net and join the forums. Lotsa stuff in there.

Chicago Slim
03-07-2008, 11:29
I'm playing lately with 4 units of 6 white lions each-- they're effective, they're stubborn, and they're cheap enough to be disposable, so I don't care when they do break and die. They go out first, to soften up the enemy, and then my spears and Phoenix Guard clean up the remnants. It's working out okay.

One thing to remember, tactically, is that the infantry ALL moves the same speed (and faster than most opponents). So, there's nothing wrong with rushing EVERYTHING up, and hitting the enemy with all of it at the same time (on Turn 3). Try pushing both flanks, for example, instead of just the right side...

Deadmanwade
05-07-2008, 16:52
I've played 5 games with High Elves so far and I've never had my Swordmasters fail to make their points back, even when I've lost the game. Unless the enemy also has ASF, its like putting the enemy warriors into a blender. I usually run two small (6 or 7 elf) squads of Lions to occupy woods and tie up units until my Swordmasters or Silverhelms can get stuck in. Their stubborn rule is great and they can take down almost anyone with 8 strength 6 attacks in a 7 wide unit. What they lose in static combat resolution they make up with kills usually. Spearmen can be great if they get charged by something with a lowish toughness/save. Not so good against heavy cavalry or monsters though.
Out of 5 total games of Warhammer, all using HE (I just started recently), I've won 3 lost 1 by a small margin and been annihilated once, although that was a legendary battle.

Curufew
05-07-2008, 16:56
I just recently got a 2K HE army and I was wondering which units can be used to screen Swordmasters

isidril93
05-07-2008, 20:33
swordmasters are amazing cos with one rank the can take down most stuff. i luv them soooo much. they are the best unit when a prince with bears anger is put in them. one time there i had just 3 swordmasters left with a prince and they just racked up over 10 kills against some night goblins.

Condottiere
05-07-2008, 20:36
Skirmishers, of course, but Shadow Warriors are a tad expensive for that role. You could place them behind, say two 2x5 Spears, with a tiny peep hole and charge all three units at the critical moment. Phoenix Guard can absorb a lot of damage.

Mabbz101
06-07-2008, 04:13
My last battle was a 4000 point game against Orcs and Goblins. my 25 strong unit of Swordmasters wiped out grimgor and his body guard in 2 turns only suffering 4 losses. lucky rolls perhaps.

Id recomend widening your options have a unit of 15 of each special choice and get yourself a dragon. The dragon mage has never let me down yet and and prince riding a dragon is an awsome sight. id also recomend a griffon mounted prince. Quite tasty.

kroq'gar
06-07-2008, 04:18
I just recently got a 2K HE army and I was wondering which units can be used to screen Swordmasters

Nothing- use yout RBT's to take out any ranged threats first. Magically defend them- a character with sacred incense also helps (-1 to hit w shooting).

Failing that, utalise a hill or wood to block LOS. Possibley a regiment of silverhelms could help, screen and then run hell-for-leather at the enemys shooting with the knights. Create a more immediate threat.

W A L 5 H Y
06-07-2008, 21:37
Swordmasters are awsome, second to none in my eyes. With a unit of spearmen either side of them to give you a good set of infantry (and at a reasonable point cost). I also try to bring some cavalry in aswell. a couple of small reaver units to get round and maybe some dragon princes aswell. But as long as you have a couple of mages and some bolt throwers i dont see how you can go wrong :P lol