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Malagant
02-07-2008, 04:18
Would a Brettonian Knight's Ward save (from praying to The Lady) work on a 5+ or 6+ vs. a Banshee's Ghostly Howl?

DarthBinky
02-07-2008, 05:27
The howl does not have S5 or higher (it has no S at all!) so it would have to be the 6+ ward.

Malagant
02-07-2008, 17:47
See, I have a problem with that logic. I know I'm way over-thinking this, but as an engineer I can't agree with your statement.

If a value is undefined, then by definition it can not be greater than or less than any given value. Your statement says, in my terms, that since it's not 5 or greater, it's less than 5...but with that statement you've defined a value that you then go on to say is undefined!

On the table, we played it with a 5+ ward, using the very fuzzy logic that anything that can do a wound with no armor save must hit pretty damn hard :p

Any other thoughts on this?


The howl does not have S5 or higher (it has no S at all!) so it would have to be the 6+ ward.

Loopstah
02-07-2008, 18:39
On the table, we played it with a 5+ ward, using the very fuzzy logic that anything that can do a wound with no armor save must hit pretty damn hard :p

Any other thoughts on this?

Yes, you obviously played it wrong.

The Banshee howl does not have a strength value.

The 5+ ward save only works "versus attacks with strength 5 or higher."

The 5+ ward therefore only works on attacks in a clearly defined range:
Strength 5
Strength 6
Strength 7
Strength 8
Strength 9
Strength 10

The 5+ ward does not work on attacks outside that clearly defined range:
No Strength Value
Strength 0
Strength 1
Strength 2
Strength 3
Strength 4

Oddly for GW it's actually a clear and concise rule with no room for interpretation.

DarthBinky
02-07-2008, 18:41
You are indeed way overthinking it. :)

1. The Blessing's rules state that you get a 6+ all the time.
2. The Blessing's rules also state that against attacks that have a S5 or higher, the affected model gets a 5+.
3. Banshee wail has no S value.

So you cannot claim the 5+, since the condition for it (the attack having S5+) has not been met. Whether or not the Banshee wail's S has been "defined" doesn't matter- it simply doesn't meet the qualifications necessary to grant the better save.

Fulgrim's-Chosen
02-07-2008, 22:53
Agreed with both Loopstah and Darth B. ;)

EvC
02-07-2008, 23:31
See, I have a problem with that logic. I know I'm way over-thinking this, but as an engineer I can't agree with your statement.

I'm also an engineer, and to think the way you describe is unthinkable!

The Banshee scream does not fulfill the requirements to get the 5+ ward save, so it doesn't get it.

Dalamyr the Fleetmaster
02-07-2008, 23:42
No strength value no 5+ ward

Malagant
03-07-2008, 02:00
Thanks for the answers, guys! My Brettonian opponent will not be pleased! :)

Is it 5 or greater? No.

Is it less than 5? No.

My PLC would explode :P

SolarHammer
03-07-2008, 02:14
Is it less than 5? No.

And that, right there, is where you go wrong.

The rule has two sentences:

Affected models get a 6+ Ward save.
and

Affected models get a 5+ Ward save versus attacks with Strength 5 or higher

So they always get a 6+ ward save, unless the attack has S5+. There is no check to see if the attack has S4 or less, because the 6+ save is the default position.