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Scorpius_78
02-07-2008, 08:11
What would happen if the Emperor of the Imperium were to just one day die. What would happen to the Imperium? Would they just cover it up and act like it never happened. Would it fall into civil war with the lords of Terra fighting each other to try and grab what they can, who would leaders of the Imperial Guard fight for, or would they fight for there own worlds, what would the space marines do?

Would Chaos still keep fighting the Imperium or would they just fully turn on each other.

Would the Tau push out and try to grab as much new ground as they could, or would they try and help the Imperium.

Melchor
02-07-2008, 08:24
I believe it is the Emperor that acts as a channeling 'device' for the Astronomicon, focusing all the psychic energy of the Choir into a single beacon.

If that is the case, the death of the Emperor would mean the death of the Astronomicon and (if no solution is found) the end of the Imperium. It would be the Age of Strife all over again. Also, Chaos would probably rule mankind (Under Abbaddon maybe?) but this wouldn't last. This would result in mankind fighting amongst itself and eventually burning out taking the Chaos gods with them (Mankind being the #1 supplier of Chaos worship).
This would result in other races (Orks and Tau especially, Eldar are too few) taking over and having their way with the galaxy. Until the Tyranids arrive in full force of course. ;)

There are some who say that the Emperor will be reborn if he dies so there would still be some hope for mankind but in all we would be pretty much *********.

Norminator
02-07-2008, 08:29
The Tau Empire would probably make huge gains, in that they'd manage to absorb large amounts of the Imperium near to them that were left stranded by the collapse of the astronomican. There are even (vague) hints in the new WD about friendly relations between Ultramar and the Tau Empire, which suggests that the idea of alliance if s**t hit the fan isn't so unlikely.

DarkMatter2
02-07-2008, 08:47
The Star Child would be born into the Warp and all of humanity's enemies would be destroyed.

Scorpius_78
02-07-2008, 08:47
I dont know about chaos geting to rule over mankind (no matter how much i would like to see it happen), I mean when look how the forces of choas act even now. They fight each other then they do the Imperium, with there main enemy gone i just see them going to into a full civil war with each other basely comeing down to my god is better then your god.

As for the Tau ya i could see them getting alot out of the Imperium falling and i could even see them takeing in space marines and Imperial guard to live and fight with them.

Melchor
02-07-2008, 08:52
Chaos isn't stupid.

They'll see that the Imperium is severely weakened and probably seize the oppertunity to wreak havoc and bring mankind under their rule. Once that is done, they get bored and the infighting will start, tearing what's left of mankind apart in a galaxy spanning civil war.

Which will result in Mankind going the way of the Eldar or (even worse) the Squats.

Khaine's Messenger
02-07-2008, 09:00
What would happen if the Emperor of the Imperium were to just one day die.

There are a few options. Some of them are cataclysmic, and some of them are conspiratorial.

The most interesting to me would be that nothing would change at all. The Emperor's been nearly physically dead for ten thousand years, and it's not his corpse they're really trying to sustain. If indeed all this focusing the Astronomican stuff is hooey--since it's powered by the sacrifices of the Chosen of the Astronomican--then it's quite possible the only thing that would skip a beat is the constant stream of soul binding rituals to pump out more astropaths. And even that might still work because it could well just be a machined process. This is all up there with the horrifying realization that the Imperium's not just being led by a corpse, but by a legion of corpses...or at least individuals who may as well be corpses, with their offices handing out edicts and actors portraying them when they need to walk out on a balcony (none of whom know that the person they're portraying is dead, thanks to centuries of lies and ignorance). The hyper-bloated bureaucracy of the Imperium keeps grinding on under its own weight, and it may have been doing so since the days before Vandire. Why couldn't all the machinery do so, too? The Emperor may well guide in spirit, ascended perhaps, but the ask what would happen if he died sort of assumes he already hasn't. And this whole vacuum of power thing would, I think, be more frightening on an intellectual level.

All that philosophizing skirts the point of the question entirely, though. And ignores not an insignificant fraction of background. But the quasi-canonical theories of what would happen when the Emperor's mortal coil finally croaks basically go like this:

1) The Astronomican would lose focus. How quickly this propagates depends entirely on narrative convenience. While the Astronomican is likened to a lighthouse, the Warp is fudgy and has "tides" and all that. The Astronomican's signal splits and hits itself in the ether. However, it's likely that this would lead to an overall decrease in reliability of long-haul warp transit. This wouldn't doom sector-level transportation, since that should mostly be jumps that could be made without Navigators. But still, in terms of managing grand strategy, you can kiss the Imperium's "reaction times" bye-bye....
2) Soul Bindings (and thus, the creation of Astropaths) would cease. The after-effects of this woudn't be immediate, but without FTL communication, you'll have to stick with starship courier services. It's possible that astropathic training would continue without soul-bindings, but it might take some time to bridge the gap or retool the training programs to be more stringent.
3) The Imperium would become an even more horribly maintained relativistic empire.
4) The enemies of man will sieze upon this infrastructural collapse and pounce. The Imperium as a contiguous whole (a pleasant fiction at the best of times) will dissolve into chunks of well-trod sector trade routes.

The most immediate effects would probably be that active warzones--like the simmering hostilities around the Cadian Gate, the hunt for Tyranid splinter fleets in the Eastern Fringes, the war on Armageddon, etc.--would grind up and enemies would gain traction. If the Imperium is lucky, the Emperor will return in a cloud of glory to fix everything. If not...well, it's down-hill from there.

On the plus side, once Chaos breaks into the Segmentum Solar, it's probably not going to have all that great an infrastructural backing either. So whoever comes out of the Hive Fleet Leviathan debacle the winner will probably have their blood up, and then it's back to a few thousand more years of dark ages.


Would the Tau push out and try to grab as much new ground as they could, or would they try and help the Imperium.

That is something that I have debated with myself ever since the Eye of Terror campaign. To me, the vastness of the setting should have prevented some of the rationalizations for Tau gains; news of the EoT campaign should not have even reached the Eastern Fringe, and so all this nonsense about drawing reinforcements from the Fringe or the Tau even having an inkling that the Imperium is devoting its attentions elsewhere is all...wrong. If it took psycho-Kage and his posse a year's warp travel to go from the Fringe to Armageddon...well, I suppose I could say something smarmy like "do the Math," but it's 40k. Math gave up on 40k a long time ago...and warp travel is supposed to be inconsistent anyway. It would have made more sense to just say that the Imperium didn't have that many invested resources in the area to start with. You can say things like "grand strategy" and "High Lord edicts from decades ago" and etc., but it still gives me headaches. Ah, well. 40k. Roll with it.

Anyway. I imagine that their "newly" christened psychopathic leader (Aun'va) will renew his campaign for the Fourth Sphere once they realize that it's possible to accomplish. What this will bode for developing infrastructure to maintain the Empire, I can't say anymore. I've been at right angles to GW's interpretation of the Tau for quite some time.

Scorpius_78
02-07-2008, 09:02
Im not saying Chaos is stupid. Im sure they would band together and spread out to gain alot of ground but i just dont see it lasting long enough before they other races start attacking them. With infighting and other races attacking i just cant see chaos keeping up. They really dont have to man power to fight on alot of fronts.

What Chaos really needs is a leader someone they can all get behind and someone all the chaos gods like. Becuase Abaddon isn't doing it.

Lax
02-07-2008, 09:12
Well, on a technical point it leads to forget about warp travelling, telepatics and protection from warp.
Morally, the new of the death of the emperor would then take ages to be known by all (except those who'll guess it).
Then, death company for everyone ? Brain washing one time a week ?

Sadly, the mortally wounded state of the emperor is necessary IMO for the fluff to stand, so I don't think he's going to die for a long time.

Melchor
02-07-2008, 09:14
Abaddon has done so for 13 times. The fact that he has failed to win is not really because he failed to unite the Traitor Legions but because a HUGE chunk of the Imperium's military might has been thrown against them.

With the Imperium in disarray, resistance will be much weaker allowing Chaos to do what it does best; wreak havoc. Don't forget that Chaos Marines are still Space Marines. They know how to fight lightning wars and strike swiftly before the enemy know's what hit them. And Chaos Marines are just a small chunk of the Forces of Chaos. Traitor guard, mutants, cultists and daemons will fight too.

Also, some former Imperial worlds will rapidly embrace chaos. Others will be cut off and force to fend for themselves against the various nasties the galaxy can throw at them.
Chaos will obviously have to fight Eldar, Tau, Orks, Tyrandids in some places but they'll strike for the heart of the staggered Imperium (Terra) initially.

Scorpius_78
02-07-2008, 09:18
I just want to say very well worded Khaine's Messenger and i agree that news should not have even reached the Eastern Fringe for years let alone should they of had to send reinforcements. Hell by the time they got there the battle would have been over for years. (but i guess GW had to give Tau players something to do during the EoT)

Death Before Dishonour
02-07-2008, 09:19
The Star Child would be born into the Warp and all of humanity's enemies would be destroyed.

I thought the Illuminate and Sensai had to do something for that to happen? :confused:

Scorpius_78
02-07-2008, 09:23
I really dont believe the Illuminate and the Sensai thing simpley becuase if they could bring back the Emperor why haven't they just done it let.

Sybaronde
02-07-2008, 10:26
I have this tingling feeling that if the Emperor would die off 'totally', The Ultramar Empire would rise. And somewhere in this future, the God-Emperor would re-incarnate, possibly more powerful then before, and presumably kick a lot of ass.

Firaxin
02-07-2008, 16:42
If the Emperor died, the Imperium would finally win.

Reincarnation/Starchild FTW.

G.I.JimmyJazz
02-07-2008, 16:58
if word got around enough i think some of the chapters that are already held by a string (blood angels, space wolves, etc) would break and start there own crusades (not that they cant already).

some of the chapters would join tau and the ethereals because they to kill in someones name.

Condottiere
02-07-2008, 17:04
Who says he isn't already dead, and that powerful lobbies keep this fiction of a Golden Throne alive, in order to maintain their power bases?

Feor
03-07-2008, 01:03
Couple scenarios, presented in order of lieklyhood:

1) as has been presented: everything stays the same. This would have some benefits. The Imperial Church gains alot more traction since now it would appear that the Emperor truly is a god, not just a Psyker with galaxy spanning power. The Custodes suddenly find themselves freed of their given task, and head out to do whatever they feel needs to be done to preserve the Imperium for the Big E's eventual return. The Space Marines finally cave and acknowledge the Emperor's Divinity. Chaos find itself short a battlecry now that "death to corpse-emperor" doesn't work anymore.

2) Everything stops. The Emperor actually dies. The astronomicon goes out, the gate in the Palace opens up, no more astropaths, no more high lords once those daemons finish up with Terra, no more Terra, period. The Imperium Fractures into a million different pieces. Guard Regiments head for their homeworlds, leaving some sectors neigh impennetrable fortresses, other undefended kill zones. Whatever Chaos forces are on Cadia are thrown back as 40 bajillion Cadian Regiments show up uninvited from wherever they had previously been posted. Cadia would likely become the focus of the Guard, with a number of regiments whose homeworlds were beyond hope due to the chaos (occasionally involving Chaos) in the Galaxy joining with the Cadians to form one mini-empire on the edge of the Eye. The Space Marines plsit into three factions. McCragge would come to lead the Marines who think that they should be consolidating and protecting what they can from the ravages of what is suddenly a very dark and scary Galaxy. Fenris (possibly orbited by The Rock) would probably become the center of thsoe chapters that think a good offense is the best defense, and would become the jumping off point for great crusades against the darkness. Other marines would simply return to their homeworlds and work towards securing their home (sub-)sectors, uncaring of the galaxy at large. The Inquisition tried to keep the Imperium together, but eventually either shatters itself, or (what I like) the Inquisitors agree that their role now is not tio Guarantee the Imperium, but to safeguard humanity. The Inquisition becomes a roaving, independant force, whose first objective is to ensure the purity and propagation of the human race.

3) The Emperor is reborn. Not "in the future", not "we need to go hunt for him", but right fricken now. The Golden Throne shuts down, the Imperial Corpse explodes into a cloud of dust, the custodes wail in horror and sadness, then the doors open and the Emperor wanders in in a bath towel all like "Yo, sup? I miss much?" The Board Games gets kicked up a notch as the Emperor starts hunting the Primarchs down, and hunting the Demon Primarchs down. Guardsmen are suddenly worth 2pts each, space marines worth 5, but if you don't have a greater Daemon or Primarch in your army you don't stand a hope in hell of walking off the battlefield in one piece.

TheOverlord
03-07-2008, 02:38
The Chaos Gods will NOT perish from the extinction of mankind. Yes mankind is easily one of the largest supply of psychic energy in the universe of 40k, but the Chaos Gods aren't exactly fire. They don't require constant fuel to burn. They are GODS! Physical Gods. Saying thus would make Slaanesh disappear very fast because the Eldar were once the single driving force behind the creation of Slaanesh, and mankind simply does not hold a candle to what they once supplied, but He's still there. What they accumulate is kept within themselves and they won't dissipate simply because they lost their buffet table :P There are hundreds maybe thousands of other alien races yet undiscovered that could be as large of the Imperium of Mankind still supplying the Gods with power. Only through the direct intervention of ANOTHER God can one God be vanquished.

Anyway back on topic.

The Astronomicon CAN be replaced. This has been done before by Malcador the Sigillite/Hero, even if he only held it working for a few hours before becoming dust. They just have to pour in more and more psykers to keep up with the power demands of the Astronomicon, but eventually they'll run out.

Or they can attempt to capture Magnus and tie him into the Astronomicon to keep it running for another 10 thousand years. Which was the Emperor's original plan anyway. False hope though.

My guess is that once the Emperor dies, there will be massive shock wave amongst the sanctioned psykers soulbound to the Emperor and die en masse, causing such a devastating psychic release that it will either tear yet another hole in the fabric on reality unleashing another Eye of Terror right in front of Terra, or birth a new God of Chaos. Either scenario would be wicked cool.

Humanity becomes prey to the Legions and one by one, every sector closes down. Ultramar will not become a new empire simply by the sheer impossibility to maintain contact over such a large space, same problem as the Tau faces. Daemons will run rampant around space and eventually the Tau will be consumed by either the Tyranids or Chaos, and the Eldar will either flee to another galaxy or finally fulfill their destiny and die like the pasty faced pansies they are, birthing their so-called God of Death which apparently will wipe the floor with the Chaos Gods... I'd like to call it wishful thinking, but we all know what Eldar really do with wishful thinking :P (here's a hint... create Slaanesh :P)

Tyranids and Orks come out of the woodwork, and finally face one another, at full strength, where an enormous stalemate will occur over half of the populated planets of the Imperium, a massive war that will shake the Universe with the clash of steel and chitin.

Or at best nothing will happen, because the Corpse God is already dead, and the Imperium runs along it's merry way towards self-destruction. I don't buy the Starchild crap, but then I don't really trust the words of deluded Inquisitors anyway :P

Ddraiglais
03-07-2008, 03:09
Im not saying Chaos is stupid. Im sure they would band together and spread out to gain alot of ground but i just dont see it lasting long enough before they other races start attacking them. With infighting and other races attacking i just cant see chaos keeping up. They really dont have to man power to fight on alot of fronts.

What Chaos really needs is a leader someone they can all get behind and someone all the chaos gods like. Becuase Abaddon isn't doing it.

Chaos could be pretty close to the Imperium in numbers. Chaos isn't just CSM. There are tons of humans and mutants. Throw in daemons, and that's an impressive looking horde. There could be as many worlds inside the Eye as in real space. Nobody really knows how many worlds there are in the Eye. If all of Chaos were directed towards a weakened Imperium at once, they'd make gains. I haven't even touched on the Imperial worlds where there are already Chaos cults. Then there's all the worlds that would turn to Chaos in the chaos of a galaxy without the Big E. Of course Chaos being what it is would make quick gains and then slow down due to infighting.

Isn't the time period for Angron's time out almost over? If so, I nominate Angron as the new leader of the black crusades.

Caiphas Cain
03-07-2008, 03:27
I would be teribly sad..... We had some good times, i remerber the time when we was drinken smirnoff and then a servo skull comes over and the Emperor says, he says. HEY!!! You almost tricked me into telling you the secret!

Kage2020
03-07-2008, 04:36
For me? Merely an acceleration of the process that started upon his mortal wounding at the hands of Horus...

:D

Kage

Croaker
03-07-2008, 04:54
Yep, the big E is dead, seems like the new janitor turn of the golden throne instead of the lights when he left the room. Let’s see what would happen, 1st the Astronomican goes BOOM, 2nd the Emperor soul fully enters the warp and kicks some chaos backside(strengthening real space from the warp, and 3rd the Eye of Terror begins to shrink.

How would this effect the Galaxy, will do this codex by codex

Space Marine .. The empire is gone. Well since the smurfs can have there own little pocket kingdom so can we and begin to take over. SM vs. SM, SM vs. IG

Tau .. The humans are weak, so lets teach them about the Greater Good. Lets kick off the 4th wave explanation early.

Imperial Guard .. Each system/sector government, religious sect thinks they know the best way to restore the empire(under there rule). Massive civil war.

Demons .. The Gods are ticked off. They can’t reach Real space as easy. The Gods must combine there strength to send there armies of demons through. (hay that makes combined demon armies fluffy now).

Dark Elder .. What the great enemy is weaker now in real space. (inserts evil laugh) PARTY TIME!!! Pack your hooks and pointy stuff were moving out of this dump.

Chaos Renegades .. Now with the Eye closing , the legions are free. No need to start a Black Crusade to break thru the gates, the walls are down and no-one to stop them.

Tyrinids .. Human resistance is in shambles, the Hive Fleets are growing larger and larger from easy feasts.

Eldar .. Biel-Tan declares the NEW Eldar empire to begin and calls on other craft worlds to join them,. Retaking maiden worlds conquering exodite worlds that will not join. The other craft worlds that did not respond persue their own adjendas. Ulthwe hunt the releast chaos legions, Iyanden aids craft world threatened by the expanding Hive Fleets.

Orks .. This is a sign from Mork or Gork or both , WAAAGGH

Well you get the point … There is only WAR unending.

Scorpius_78
03-07-2008, 05:00
I liked the idea of some of the space marines banding together and doing there own thing, i could see that happening. As well as someing of them joining the Tau.

Does anyone here think that there would be some Chapters that would still try and fight for what left of the Imperium?

Grindgodgrind
03-07-2008, 10:08
I think that if the Emperor died, if not dead already, then the Imperium would continue to fracture. Possibly time for the Necrons to go on a massive harvesting spree, or the Orks to launch 'da mega waaaaaagh', or the 'nids to declare a 24-7, 365 all you can eat buffet.

Lax
03-07-2008, 12:04
Having read the V5 fluff from the rulebook, they still say that if the emperor was to die, all humans would have their head popped by warp forces.
Humans would all turn in chaos forces and universe would be invaded by all warp creatures.
So it's not likely to happen now ^^!

Kage2020
03-07-2008, 12:21
Well, that would be the belief of the not-so-common-(w0)man, for sure, but that doesn't make it true. After all, it is merely the "Emperor Protects!" phrase writ large.

(And nicely shows that, once again, there is no such things - or very rarely, at least - as "god perspective" in GW writings. :D)

Kage

Templar Ben
03-07-2008, 12:27
Does anyone here think that there would be some Chapters that would still try and fight for what left of the Imperium?

I see the Black Templar doing that very thing.

Kage2020
03-07-2008, 12:28
Yet what is the Imperium for groups whose definition of that institution is provided by, well, the Emperor? What would they create in its place?

Kage

pookie
03-07-2008, 13:22
Does anyone here think that there would be some Chapters that would still try and fight for what left of the Imperium?

yes, certainly those that were former Legions or there successors, such as the BA/sallies or BT etc.

the BT especially as they still hold to the emp vision during the Great crusade, in finding and re absorbing missing Human Worlds.

Messiahnide
03-07-2008, 15:47
I think the big E might be kicking his life supported bucket soon, its hinted in the new WD. quote: "Tech priests of the adeptus mechanicus discover failures in the mechanisms of the golden throne that are far beyond their ability to repair".
Seems likely it mite be soon.

VikingThor
03-07-2008, 16:22
I think that is just to give a feeling of deeper dispair and hopelessness. I don't think he will ever "die"....he will remain in whatever state he is in now. A vessel, or conduit, something. His death would change the galaxy too much to make the game work anymore. There would just be crazy armies fighting for nothing but themselves in an apocolyse style mega battle. While fun, it would really just end the need for any more codecies, rulebooks, or black library publications....and we know that's not going to happen.

Scorpius_78
03-07-2008, 20:10
I dont know if it would change the game to much for it not to work. All it would mean (if the Emperor were to die) is that theres alot groups fighting each other. All the races and factions would still be there. Just not all of them would be fighting for/against the Imperium. And lets face it the Imperium isn't hold together to well as it is, something going to happen to it and it will happen soon.

Fargius
04-07-2008, 01:44
I recall reading some older short stories that revolved around the possibility that the 4 major warp powers were worried about him dying. They feared that if the Emperor died off, there was a strong possibility of him becoming a 5th major warp power potentially rivaling the strongest of the warp powers thanks to the billions of psychic souls that had been destroyed to maintain him in the physical world.

I wish I could remember where I read that though; it is the same story that sort of showed the emperor no longer being a single entity, but one powerful personality inundated by billions of lesser ones (the souls of the destroyed psychers).

Inquisitor Engel
04-07-2008, 07:01
They are GODS! Physical Gods.,

:eyebrows:

Umm... according to both the Liber Chaotica and many, many rulebooks and source books published by GW, the Chaos Gods (and all warp entities for that matter) are swirling vortices of sentient emotion and devoured souls, given personifications by their followers.

Just because Khorne's sentient mind chooses to appear to a Khornate Champion as a warrior on a brass throne atop a mountain of skulls doesn't make it so. It's simply what the entity WANTS him to see.

The Eldar Gods were sentient vortices (or Old Ones that ascended to that state, IMHO) and so are Gork and Mork. The Star Child is also the same principle.

I understand from your post that you desperately want the Chaos gods to be more than just a "natural" phenomenon within the warp, but that's all they are, albeit the proverbial 500-pound gorilla natural phenomena in the proverbial room.


The Astronomicon CAN be replaced. This has been done before by Malcador the Sigillite/Hero, even if he only held it working for a few hours before becoming dust. They just have to pour in more and more psykers to keep up with the power demands of the Astronomicon, but eventually they'll run out.

The Light of the Astronomicon is currently seen by Navigators as a giant beam of light that gives them bearing and point of reference within the warp, I imagine that without the Emperor projecting it, the Choir could still 'sing' and you'd get a really big bright ball of light at Terra, rather than a beam.

It'd be a lot harder, but not impossible to navigate the warp.


Or at best nothing will happen, because the Corpse God is already dead, and the Imperium runs along it's merry way towards self-destruction. I don't buy the Starchild crap, but then I don't really trust the words of deluded Inquisitors anyway :P

The Starchild isn't "Inquisitorial Fact" it was stated in Rogue Trader as unbiased, 3rd person, Rick Priestly written fact. It dropped off the radar and has now made an "in-universe" return. You'd deny what was written by Priestly. (Unless it was directly contradicted by a later piece of background carrying the same weight, which it hasn't)

Not saying you're wrong or anything, just saying...