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Pyrofighter
02-07-2008, 11:07
Hello everyone, im a beginning warhammer player and i have a medium sized O&G army. But i have trouble fighting dark elf army's...
They always shooit the crap out of me, and i have nothing good versus them i think.(I have a rock lobber but it hasnt proven itself worthy..)

My opponent uses a lone line of Rxbow's and he has a bolt thrower. He also has the CoK and some Black Guards. And a really annoying unit of manflayers...

And i have some trouble with spider riders... their dying... and there not killing their just a waste? And the rock lobber is also dissapointing T_T

I have these troops:

-Black orc bigboss
-3x N.Goblin Shamans
-1x Goblin big boss
-1x Goblin Big boss on Great cave Squig

-40x Night Goblins
-20x Night goblins with bow
-2x Snotlings
-19 Orc boys (soon more)
-(soon some Orc Arrer boys)
-30x Forest goblin Spider riders (im very dissapointed in them..)
-10x Goblin wolf riders
-7 Fanatics

-10x Black Orcs
-1x Squig herd team (i love them ^^ only i need more :P)
-1x Rock lobber (Damn i regret buying it.. :( or i use it wrong)
-2x Orc Boar Chariot (1 unfinished)

-1x Snotling pump wagon (never used it before its not finished)
-1x Troll


Could anyone help me get a good army list? And give me some advice to beat those pointears ? :D I would really appreciate that :D

Stinkfoot
02-07-2008, 16:17
What does the table you're playing on look like? How much terrain do you use? It's hard to beat a gunline on an empty table, and it's kind of unfair if that's all you ever play on.

WhiteKnight
02-07-2008, 16:23
More black orcs. You need a big, solid unit of them to kill stuff. And in close combat, you can give them a solid armour save with hand weapon and shield.

Pyrofighter
03-07-2008, 08:43
Yes we play with terrain, its random regenerated. More black orcs might work..

Skulliz
03-07-2008, 13:16
I woulds say more Orc Boyz! two units of 25 with choppas and shields is a nice core to build your army around. For just 180pts each their surviviability is awesome!

As for spider Riders I guess you are using them in units of five or six without any command uppgrades, more than that would just be a waste. From my experience Spider Riders almost never kills anything but they are totaly awesome anyway! I use them as screeners/flank protectors/flankers/baiting unit.

Lotho
03-07-2008, 16:00
Ok, from rare to core...

Pump wagon, amusing Unit though random movement hurts too much.

Trolls are great if you keep them close to your Black Orc general, boost them to 3 because they are only 120 points which cause fear and get 4+ regen saves (so awesome).

If your reasonable at guessing range get a Doomsdiver to either shoot his RBT/RXB guys or CoK, D6 St5 hits and no armor saves will do some nice damage.

For special
Run black orcs in a group of 20 with shields as others have said they can take a fair amount of punishment. Allow a chariot to get the flank charge after.

Spear chukkas are also great, 2for1 at low points? yes please.

For Core
Dont even bother with NG bowmen, divide your spearmen into 2x20 groups and then add 10bowmen to the back of each and make em count as spearmen. 2 groups of 30 is much better. Add nets to the groups and keep the fanatics 2 or less for each group unless you want a funny game and dont care if they smash your own lines.

Snotlings use as screeners to a unit of your choice.
Orc boyz boys are good, throw in some arrer boyz to boost them to 25 strong.

Wolf and Spider riders use in groups of 5-6 as others have mentioned probably 2 of each is best (march blocking/warmachine hunting).

For characters definitely use Borc as general and either throw a NGob BSB in the unit of blackorcs or Orc boys (survives a little longer hopefully) or buy a Blackorc BSB on a boar and put him in a unit (extra armor).

Hope this helps a little, remember to put the orc boyz inbetween NG units so the other NG unit doesnt panic if one breaks. If you want some ranged units in your army then go for the warmachines, I find that Orc/gob bowmen suck too much.

Lotho.

Pyrofighter
03-07-2008, 18:02
Thanks mate! The battle was today and i was second, first the woodelves were shooting the crap out of me, and then those annoying skaven guns shot allot of hits on me. But my fanatics did the job and a while later almost all those sqeeky rats were dead.Then the dark elves came and i died... he camped allot and shot hail of bolts... My army couldt fight that, i had some gobbos and orcs left but nothing more :cries:

And damn i hate that rock lobber, the model is cool but it s*cks. I killed 2 manflayers with it nothing more. :mad:

The heroes of the day were:

-Troll (yay he was sweet, my pumpwagon wasnt finished so i chose him ^^)
-Orc big uns (choppa and shield)
-Gobbos with fanatics and nets of course (the skaven player doest like them:angel:)
-Orc boar chariot
-Shamans ^^

And on the "lozer" list:

-Black orcs (not their fault there arrow magnets..)
-Rock lobber (really i think its a waste of money :cries:)


And those spideys did something usefull after all They killed the crew of that damn skaven warplightning cannon thing. ^^ (but for the rest of the game they s*cked like always..)

I need to improve my tactics versus the gunline and i need to learn how that damn rock lobber can be usefull. So just rush to them, is that the best way to handle a gun line?

Shamfrit
03-07-2008, 18:16
The heroes of the day were:

-Troll


Trolls are very versatile if babysat, they deal a punch, and they're harder to kill than most infantry :) They work better when used in groups of 3-5, as 5 will hit even the largest units in the game full frontal.


-Orc Big Unz

Despite being absurdly expensive, they're worth the investment as a hammer or anvil unit, don't make the unit more than 25, and avoid magic banners (unless you're not running a BSB to carry Spirit Totem that is.)


-Night Goblins With Fanatics

Hence why they PWN!


-Orc Boar Chariot

These guys are still top notch, despite taking up a special slot - get them in their and they can win combats if they're aimed at the right target, and killing more than 6 Clanrats will win you the combat more than likely.


-Shamans ^^

BOOM BOOM!


And on the "looser" list:

-Black orcs (not their fault there arrow magnets..)

This is entirely down to only taking 10 of them. A unit of 18 (three ranks of six) works considerably better, and you can take alot of casualites and still maintain max offensive capabilities. Don't take them AT ALL if you're taking Big Unz. Or drop the Big Unz to make the Blorc unit bigger, your choice.


-Rock lobber (really i think its a waste of money :cries:)

Stone Throwers always are a very risky investment. Nothing anyone can do can change that...but when they DO hit, oink!

[/QUOTE]

Best way to deal with a gunline is to rush them yes, but - rush them in the right place. Threaten their weakest positions, not position. Lance them, in at least three places, and then, their few combat units will not be able to be in all places at once, letting you tear half the board apart :angel:

Pyrofighter
03-07-2008, 20:26
This is entirely down to only taking 10 of them. A unit of 18 (three ranks of six) works considerably better, and you can take alot of casualites and still maintain max offensive capabilities. Don't take them AT ALL if you're taking Big Unz. Or drop the Big Unz to make the Blorc unit bigger, your choice.



Stone Throwers always are a very risky investment. Nothing anyone can do can change that...but when they DO hit, oink!

Yes maybe 10 black orcs is a bit to low, but their kinda expensive if you put them into large groups. I could cut off some useless spiders and get some black orcs instead. I also think to switch spidey's for wolves. I think the 18 charge range is way better compared the spiders...

And for the stone thrower, i know he is radom but i think he does to little... (even for the 70 points..)

I go put some wolves in know, and instead of 1 troll a pump wagon. :D I also plan on giving my black orcs no command and use them as bait for arrows?

Gobbo Lord
03-07-2008, 20:43
Hello everyone, im a beginning warhammer player and i have a medium sized O&G army.

Good choice, Orcs are a great army to learn the basics of the game with (and kick some ass)

I believe the problem is you havent played many games, its not that your troops cant deal with the opposing armies, its that you havent yet developed as a player. This is not meant as an insult.

Spider Riders, for example are not meant to be a killy unit that destroys lots of enemys. They are perfect, along with wolf riders, for diverting and charging in the flanks those units of repeater crossbows you are having problems with.

Most of the above advice is telling you to get certain units and dump others, i dont think this is the problem here (i had a thread in general discussion about replies such as these). You just need to play more and you will learn how to fight these units. the rock lobber should be firing at big blocks of infantry for example, not manflaying skirmishers. Also get some games in against other armies, and if thats not possible then watch other people play, you learn a lot more from playing and watching games than following advice such as...


Run black orcs in a group of 20 with shields as others have said they can take a fair amount of punishment.


This is entirely down to only taking 10 of them. A unit of 18 (three ranks of six) works considerably better, and you can take alot of casualites and still maintain max offensive capabilities.

They really cant, they have a 4+ basic save and the same toughness as your normal core boyz. 20 Black Orcs is an expensive waste in an army which needs lots of troops. I run a unit of 12. Though 10 is fine. Those extra 2 ranks everyone is saying is a must can buy you 20 Orc Boyz which can take crossbow fire much better than 10 black orcs. You should use them alongsde a big unit of orcs or goblins, the black orcs kill, the lesser greenskins provide ranks and numbers.

Plus the bigger the unit you run the more likely the opponent will try to take it out due to psychological effect. They are less likely to shoot at 10 than they are at 20.