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View Full Version : So.. With all the Broken armies etc



SPYDER68
02-07-2008, 21:49
What in your openion is a broken list for the armies ? As in show the list, maybe some people dont know any better..

I know around here, its play whatever you want, if you get stomped its fine, try a new list and learn to win.

In 1k points for my daemons..


I run 10x daemonettes, 10x bloodletters, 13x plaguemarines
Tzeentch herald + chariot
blue scribes
Mounted Nurgle Herald

This is my base list i started playing daemons with and havent lost yet with it, just a couple close games.. Now since ive been winning almost all my games, are you all here saying i should nerf my list down because its good ? I just kinda tossed units together to try them and went and it worked and i find the list fun.

I dont think its overpowerd as others, but it seems very effective every time ive played it, i could make it alot stronger if i wanted.

What do you considerd to Strong ?

2x Tzeench hearlds on chariots master of sorc..
Blue Scribes
59 Pink Horrors seperated into units i would determine later on.

Thats what i could run..
and i would consider that one cheesy and i would pull it vs somone else who wanted to try to cheese a list.

I'm just kinda curious thou, it seems around here if people lose to a list they cry call it to strong and refuse to play it, and maybe players arent even trying to make a strong list and just a fun one like i did.


btw any army can be broken/cheesy/overpowerd

i chose daemons because its the only army i currently use

Bloodknight
02-07-2008, 21:59
Wrong forum...plague marines?

Solasun
02-07-2008, 22:10
I think any list with Space Marines versus the Empire/Ogre Kingdoms/Vampire Counts/Beasts of Chaos/Warriors of Chaos/Dwarfs/High Elves/Wood Elves/Dark Elves/Chaos Dwarfs/Bretonnia/Tomb Kings/Skaven/Dogs of War/Orcs and Goblins/Lizardmen/Tilea/Araby to be pretty broken and imba.

wizuriel
02-07-2008, 22:34
think he meant plaguebearers not marines.

imo any list with a special character is cheesy (espically the newer ones from the high elf book on)

OldMaster
02-07-2008, 23:02
Nah, only Teclis can shift my point of attention... all others may come and get killed :)
... all right, except Thorgrim. And actually Tyrion too, but I refuse to play against high Elves most the times :\

Frankly
03-07-2008, 00:20
I think any list with Space Marines versus the Empire/Ogre Kingdoms/Vampire Counts/Beasts of Chaos/Warriors of Chaos/Dwarfs/High Elves/Wood Elves/Dark Elves/Chaos Dwarfs/Bretonnia/Tomb Kings/Skaven/Dogs of War/Orcs and Goblins/Lizardmen/Tilea/Araby to be pretty broken and imba.


OMG!!! My Nids would rule the old world if their hive fleet ever bothered too come down to these parts.

My Winged Hive tyrant with 2 x TL devourers against cavalry he he.

catbarf
03-07-2008, 00:39
They did. Cold Ones are really the bastard children of Zoats. Their link with the Lizardmen comes from their latent infiltration abilities a la Genestealers.

OldMaster
03-07-2008, 00:48
We also have the slann : )

phoenixnl
03-07-2008, 01:05
There's no such thing as an army that is too strong. The point of the game is winning, win! Obviously when a list is so strong that winning becomes a chore, Games Workshop messed up real bad. And though there's definitely strong lists around there's no 'auto-win' option.

If people complain that your list is too strong, tell them that they should have chosen your army/list then. Anyone who complains is basically incompetent to be able beat you; or is purposely handicapping himself by not playing the 'auto-win' option. If he is, he has no right of complaining, since he could do something about it.

Torga_DW
03-07-2008, 01:18
i think someone else said it best. The objective of the game is winning. The point of the game is to have fun.

szlachcic
03-07-2008, 01:23
think he meant plaguebearers not marines.

imo any list with a special character is cheesy (espically the newer ones from the high elf book on)

Why? Most special characters are huge points sinks that will never prove their worth on the tabletop. Generic characters kitted out for a specific goal usually are much more useful.


There's no such thing as an army that is too strong. The point of the game is winning, win! Obviously when a list is so strong that winning becomes a chore, Games Workshop messed up real bad. And though there's definitely strong lists around there's no 'auto-win' option.

If people complain that your list is too strong, tell them that they should have chosen your army/list then. Anyone who complains is basically incompetent to be able beat you; or is purposely handicapping himself by not playing the 'auto-win' option. If he is, he has no right of complaining, since he could do something about it.

You should go post this in the thread where the OP is whining about the daemon book.

TheDarkDuke
03-07-2008, 01:33
Have you not heard? Every army is broken, which hence balances them out...

Lets see, I remember Ogre Kingdoms being released everyone cried broken, that faded away to the point many thing they are under powered. Wood Elves came and man did the broken cries roar loud. Up came the Dwarves and the cries of broken were not as bad as Wood Elf but there were quite a bit there. Orcs and Goblins came and actually I don't think I heard much broken... but Greenskins tend to be down to earth people, in an odd way. Empire came and screams of broken lists arose from the ashes. High Elf came and the world was going to end if ASF... Warhammer Fantasy was going to fold with this game breaking rule! Vampire Counts came, and people screamed why are Vampires so strong? Magic magic magic. Daemons come and they are spawned from broken.

I think I see a trend... unless your greenskined your broken. I guess a famous star was right saying "It ain't easy being green."

szlachcic
03-07-2008, 01:40
I think I see a trend... unless your greenskined your broken. I guess a famous star was right saying "It ain't easy being green."

Hahaha, that just made my day. Quoted for truth.

wizuriel
03-07-2008, 02:39
Why? Most special characters are huge points sinks that will never prove their worth on the tabletop. Generic characters kitted out for a specific goal usually are much more useful.

they imo were fine when they took up lord slots and an extra hero or rare. when you have hero characters like the mask, blue scribes, that skull collector guy, teclis as hero choices that are abusrdly powerful for their costs they more than make up their points

Alucard13
03-07-2008, 03:13
He may make up for his cost in general but with his high cost the rest of the army is lacking in the fun thing imo.

SPYDER68
03-07-2008, 05:49
Bored at work for 3-4 hours solid and just got done reading the 40k forums = misnamed plaugebeares :P.

Braad
03-07-2008, 06:41
Whoho, I'm not broken!
All other armies are broken, yes. Broken by the Orcs! To pieces. With nothing left. Lets keep it that way. I like to break stuff


The point of the game is winning, win!


The objective of the game is winning. The point of the game is to have fun.

May I say that I completely disagree with the first and completely agree with the second.

I don't think any armies are really broken. When the community first sees the new army, they see either 1- an army they play that has changed a bit, which scares them, or 2- an army they have to face and they don't know how it will behave, so they are scared of the unknown.
In the end, it is al just a matter of not knowing, and when people get used to them this whining automatically dies of.
Maybe we should just put a bit more faith in the design team, they aren't just sitting there in the office with a huge bottle o' rum, writing **** down, no, they do playtesting, so they already know something is not completely crazy before they release him.

Something can only be really 'broken' if people actually start complaining a few months AFTER the release.

Frankly
03-07-2008, 12:37
The point of the game is winning, win!

eeeaaaaasy tiger!

Thats not everyones 'point of the game'.

Mine is to drink beer and throw some dice around with my mates and talk alot of crap about things we don't know about.

Are you old enough to drink beer?

WhiteKnight
03-07-2008, 17:27
There's no such thing as an army that is too strong. The point of the game is winning, win! Obviously when a list is so strong that winning becomes a chore, Games Workshop messed up real bad. And though there's definitely strong lists around there's no 'auto-win' option.

If people complain that your list is too strong, tell them that they should have chosen your army/list then. Anyone who complains is basically incompetent to be able beat you; or is purposely handicapping himself by not playing the 'auto-win' option. If he is, he has no right of complaining, since he could do something about it.

I kind of have to disagree and agree.

For the 'auto-win' option, Tzeentch Beastsmen are one of the easiest armies to win with. One guy at my GW store has won a bunch of games and maybe lossed 3, keyword Maybe. Its just a destroyer of armies in the magic phase. I saw him pull a massacre in turn 4 because of the amazing Tzeentch lore.

As for the complaining about a list being too strong, it just means that the player did not handicap himself, like you stated. Here's what I see in a strong army.

1.Solid characters that are good in their phase and don't take up too many points of your army.

2. No special characters. There are two guys that always field special characters in order to win. A VC player always uses mannfred and just destroy everything in the magic phase. The other guy is an empire player that always uses Karl Franz. I absolutely hate playing these guys because thats the only way that they can win. Yes they're good in a game but they're meant for large games. A good player doesn't need a special character to win.

3. Solid core choices. The best list has a solid core choice selection. Even for high elves, you need solid spearmen or lothern sea guard units or solid archers. 3 units of 10 archers with no add-ons is 330 points. It's cheap and its effective.

4.Powerful special choices. These units will help you support your core choices or be part of the frontlines and take out opposition.

5.Support from rare choices. Even pros need rare choices to fill in the gaps. Bolt Throwers, flyers like great eagles, war machines, Dogs of War, or even giants need to be used for protection in areas other units can't help in.

Aliarzathanil
03-07-2008, 19:30
The point of professional sports is to win. This is a hobby. Try and have some fun. Swap armies and see if you enjoy playing against it.

Skyth
03-07-2008, 20:32
Try and have some fun. Swap armies and see if you enjoy playing against it.

Playing with or against an army that is built to be weak isn't fun for me.

The SkaerKrow
04-07-2008, 14:50
Warhammer has the potential to be an incredibly fun, engrossing and rewarding game. Unfortunately, most of the time it isn't because players gravitate towards very strong WAAC armies. Usually with unpainted and proxied figures.

The sad fact is, there is little balance in Warhammer, and there are broken armies. Some people might bristle at that statement, but it's the truth. A list of 2,250 points from Army X should be roughly equal in power to 2,250 points from Army Y, should have the same number of advantages (even if they're very different advantages) and have the same potential for victory. In Warhammer, that's not always (or even usually) the case.

I could begin listing specifics, but I won't since that has a habit of making people see general statements as personal attacks on their armies. But I will say this much; in the Internet Age when gamers have access to massive communities from which they can glean powerful combinations and army compositions it becomes more important than ever for a games designer to strive for proper balance within their game. To this point Games Workshop has failed in that respect almost completely, and they show no signs of pulling out of their current nosedive. Warhammer is a great game, and it deserves better than what it's getting.

Conotor
04-07-2008, 16:42
Only lists that spend over 666 points on shooting.

Conotor
04-07-2008, 16:44
The point of professional sports is to win. This is a hobby. Try and have some fun. Swap armies and see if you enjoy playing against it.

For most people, the point of sports is also to have fun. You do it by trying to win. In a well designed game, of any type, the best way to win should also be the most fun way to play.

IzDaBoss
11-04-2009, 22:04
IMO theres no broken armies everything is fair and fine people just need to complain and a excuse for why they lost