PDA

View Full Version : Linked Gothic-40k Campaign



Stinkfoot
03-07-2008, 05:56
I've been working on rules for a linked 40k-Gothic Map-campaign. I would appreciate any input you guys would be willing to give. I should warn that it's a rather long file, but if you're interested in playing campaigns yourself it might give you some ideas at the very least.

The army special rules included are for the armies I expect to participate in the campaign, but if anybody has any suggestions for rules for other armies I'd be happy to hear them.

Attached (hopefully) is a .doc file with the rules, as they currently stand. This is the first time I've uploaded something on this site, some hopefully the format and whatnot works out alright.

Drogmir
03-07-2008, 06:46
I like the random Tyranid Hive fleet invasion.

But are you sure it's really wise for SM and IG to be so intermixable in one list?

Also no Necron special rules?

How about Tau?

Stinkfoot
03-07-2008, 06:51
Well, like I said I only wrote special rules for the armies I expected might participate in the campaign (ie, the people that I play with often enough to have a fairly long campaign with). I do know a guy with a fairly large Tau army however, so if you have any other army special rules to suggest (approximately in line with the others, ideally), I would like to hear them.


*edit*

Oh, and the IG-SM mixing thing is mostly because it seems fluffy. I'd imagine a realistic space marine campaign would include a considerabe guard detachment. It probably isn't perfectly balanced, but I'm more tolerant of that in a campaign setting. Hmm, could you think of anything to balance the extra mixing option for other armies? I could see allowing Tau to field IG platoons as well, but it wouldn't make so much sense for armies like Eldar or Orks...

Drogmir
03-07-2008, 07:02
Well the Tau have the problem of not really having FTL technology that isn't warp based. Meaning getting around huge distances quickly is a bit of a problem.

Maybe you could incorporate some sort of system to present that? Like it takes 2 turns to move instead of 1 but they get more points

If it was me,

I would do something along the lines of alternate travel lines and such where Everyone can use Warp Portals to skip sectors but the Tau are stuck using traditional sector to sector methods

ex. below

Circles are planets, Squares are sectors

For every place that says warp portal an army can take it and transfer their army to another sector with a warp portal .

And perhaps the portals drift every turn causing some randomness

Stinkfoot
03-07-2008, 07:23
I kind of like that idea, especially if I get the Tau in on the campaign. Hexes would probably work best with that kind of system... plus hexes look more sci-fi appropriate than squares (IMO, at least). Further, it might be cool too if the Eldar had some way of manipulating the warp portals, since they presumably have scattered warp gates that the "lesser" races don't know about.

I don't really like the idea of giving Tau straight up more points to be honest; I think that really misses an opportunity to make an off-setting special rule for one and having extra Gothic points may just make them a slow-but-implacable bulldozer faction. Maybe allow them to take units from the codexes of player's whose planets they've conquered (absorbing the natives into their empire)? I don't think that would entirely offset the rather crippling slower-space travel rule, it would at least be a step in the right direction no? Maybe allow them to get resources from just-conquered planets as well, to represent their more rapid assimilation?

Plastic Rat
03-07-2008, 07:25
Oh, and the IG-SM mixing thing is mostly because it seems fluffy. I'd imagine a realistic space marine campaign would include a considerabe guard detachment. It probably isn't perfectly balanced, but I'm more tolerant of that in a campaign setting. Hmm, could you think of anything to balance the extra mixing option for other armies? I could see allowing Tau to field IG platoons as well, but it wouldn't make so much sense for armies like Eldar or Orks...

About to download and read now, but I had to comment on this. YES! Good work there. It does seem fluffy and I always said if I ever ran a campaign I'd allow IG and Space Marines to mix in the army. You could do it in 2nd edition in any game. It made much more sense. Additionally, it was great for collecting a second army, you could start off with just one or two units to add to your army and then fill it out till it could be fielded on it's own.

Plus, the logic and fluff side makes so much sense. Marines fighting on their own makes about as much sense as an entire war fought here just using Navy Seals.

Stinkfoot
03-07-2008, 18:05
Nothing more? I was kinda hoping to hear what you had to think Plastic Rat. Did you get a chance to read over the rules? Do they make sense, at least?

kozmo
03-07-2008, 22:27
I think the Ork special rule (to represent looting) could also work for the Nids (to represent increased biomass).

Hey Stinkfoot, are you looking for players for your campaign? :D

Stinkfoot
04-07-2008, 03:02
That's a good idea Kozmo. It would work a lot better than an earlier special rule given to the Tyranids...

When trying these rules out before, the Tyranids had a rule where they never occupied planets, and if they conquered one they just got a boatload of resources (2000 points, I believe) and the planet was desolated. That sounded cool and Tyranid-like, but it let them gain momentum too fast in the early game when other people didn't have enough points to stop a full-on invasion. If the 'Nids conquered two planets uncontested on the first two turns, they would basically have an unstoppable armada and roll everybody else over. That ALSO may be cool and Tyranid-like, but doesn't make for a particularly fun campaign.

If you're in the area we could always use more players!

Plastic Rat
04-07-2008, 03:28
Nothing more? I was kinda hoping to hear what you had to think Plastic Rat. Did you get a chance to read over the rules? Do they make sense, at least?

They did make sense and I found them really impressive. Nice and simple, but with some fun detail. They're also making me feel that I will be visiting GW's site and ordering even more BFG models in the near future.

A few notes.

- For the fluff monkey I am, I'd lead players to understand that their extra resources are not in fact coming directly from the planets they hold, but rather the extra territories they control will allow their faction to place a higher priority on the campaign and send more re-reinforcements. Still works in exactly the same way, but would make more sense. Excuse me for being a pedantic git.

- For space battles, on a fleet entering a system occupied by another force, I would allow the previous occupant to withdraw without a battle if they wished, unless the attacking player specifically states that they are moving in stealthily with the objective of locating and destroying enemy ships.

- For landing troops on planets I would simply use the planetary assault scenario straight from BFG. Meaning ships would have to enter low orbit in order to do anything.

For the ground campaign, I like what you did. I would however simplify it to a system of 'reserve pool' on each planet. That way a player doesn't have to keep track of each individual soldier.

I actually wrote up some rules for a narative-roleplaying map based campaign a while back that incorporated BFG. I never wrote the BFG part so if you don't mind I'll be stealing your BFG rules as they stand.

My stuff covered the ground war more intensively with various different missions you could declare and what effects they would have on your opponent if you won. Everything from stealthy kill-team raids to all out assaults.

The only thing I was worrying about was one player growing so powerful that they became completely unassailable. An entirely realistic event, but not much fun for everyone.

I wanted to make up a bunch of cards of 'bad juju' that the player with the highest number of forces in the system had to draw from every turn. Sort of to keep things in check. Still bouncing that idea around.

I attached my rules for you to look over if you're interested. I'd need to go over the whole lot again after reading yours and change a bunch of stuff in mine to make them both coincide. Also want to streamline a few things on mine, in hindsight they look a bit clunky.

Love the random occurrences table by the way, especially the Tyranid invasion. Our Tyranid players should love that. I'd like to expand the table a bit though and get more stuff happening.

Overall this whole thing got me really excited to get back into BFG and combine it with 40k.

Mott
04-07-2008, 03:59
Ive always liked the idea and this set seems simple and elegant enough to provide some great campaigns, I just wish people at my local shop played gothic!

I think a good way to represent Tau is make them twice as slow at moving around, but either give them advanced orbital defences or more starting territory to represent their advanced tech and the fact that they usually are on the defensive during events of this scale.

Stinkfoot
04-07-2008, 04:37
First to address some issues you (Plastic Rat) brought up:

-First of all, feel free to use/modify my rules. It's good to hear that other people may find them useful and fun

-A fleet withdrawal sounds fair, probably on a successful leadership test.*

-Your reserve pool system is definitely simpler than the system I lay out, but I'm not sure it's better. I've played campaigns where you track individual squads and campaigns were you don't, and I feel like with the squad-tracking, immutable army lists you develop a much deeper connection with the army. Not only is experience easier to do, but units gain psychological reputations with your enemies throughout the campaign. Your enemies come to fear your elite Wolf Guard unit becauses it's the same unit that dragged down their general the last time you played, or you actually feel the loss when your favorite veteran Sargent bites the bullet. I suppose what I'm getting at is that the squad-tracking enhances the role-playing part of the campaign, which I really like.

Further, the squad-tracking makes it easier to take cool-but-less-than-optimal unit choices. If I only have 1000 points for a battle I better make them all count. If I spend 100 points up front but then can use my purchase for as long as he survives, then I just might go ahead and take my awesome SW Company Standard Bearer. Sure he isn't too great, but the blow is lessened.

I won't lie, tracking individual squads and the casualties they take requires a lot of paperwork, but I've come to feel that it pays off. If you haven't played such a campaign before, I suggest you try it and see how you like it.

Now onto your rules...

I like the supply rules quite a bit, though some of them seem awfully harsh. Parts and ammo shortages especially seem brutal. It would be cool to use these same rules in a multi-planet campaign. Sticking with a single kill-team over various missions seems really awesome, I want to get in on some of that!

I suppose it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume a kill team could infiltrate enemy space. Perhaps for a flat fee (100 points or so) you can deliver your kill team to a battle site immediately before an attack. You can play a Kill-team battle targetting enemy supply lines as laid out in your rules.

I hope you don't mind if I save the rules to my hard drive so I can reference them later.

*Imagining the fleet withdrawing before a big battle reminds me of the opening cut-scene in Brood War, when the Admiral's Battlecruiser leaves orbit after being alerted the base below will be overrun in minutes without intervention. Awesome...

Starchild
04-07-2008, 06:08
If it were me, I would opt for a system-focused system over a sector-focused system. That way, any discussion of this or that race not being able to travel quickly enough would be quite moot.

Since Orks don't really care where they end up, and they move through the Warp using erratic methods, you could randomize all movement of their fleets... which could lead to some interesting situations. :p

Plastic Rat
04-07-2008, 06:27
-Your reserve pool system is definitely simpler than the system I lay out, but I'm not sure it's better. I've played campaigns where you track individual squads and campaigns were you don't, and I feel like with the squad-tracking, immutable army lists you develop a much deeper connection with the army. Not only is experience easier to do, but units gain psychological reputations with your enemies throughout the campaign. Your enemies come to fear your elite Wolf Guard unit becauses it's the same unit that dragged down their general the last time you played, or you actually feel the loss when your favorite veteran Sargent bites the bullet. I suppose what I'm getting at is that the squad-tracking enhances the role-playing part of the campaign, which I really like.


Hmm, ok, after reading this you've convinced me, especially after adding that word 'roleplaying' at the end.

I'm trying to get my head around how this would work with models though. The idea of having to deal with what you have in an engagement really appeals to me.

How about rules for 'guerrilla warfare' for stranded forces? Maybe give them some penalties, but allow them to undertake raids against the enemy. Maybe I'm getting a bit complicated here. I'm going to speak to some friends this weekend and see if we can kick off a small campaign like this and see what we can do with it.




I like the supply rules quite a bit, though some of them seem awfully harsh. Parts and ammo shortages especially seem brutal. It would be cool to use these same rules in a multi-planet campaign. Sticking with a single kill-team over various missions seems really awesome, I want to get in on some of that!


Yeah, I kind of like the idea that it's fairly harsh. It makes your kill-teams useful. Plus, there are always ways around it, although they were made with the 'points pool' system in mind. If you're low on ammo, send in more assaulty units, if you're low on parts and your vehicles are falling apart, use more troops. When you're stuck with what you have to use though it's a different story.

The idea was that it would cause even more themed missions. For example, area is out of parts due to a kill-team op? Send a supply convoy from nearby as your very next move. Your opponent has the opportunity to ambush the convoy and so forth.

I'm really not sure how balanced any of this is, but this was never intended for WAAC players or whiny kiddies. The idea was to remain flexible so that if something was destabilizing the campaign or removing the fun for some players, everyone could get together and find a workaround, either by changing rules or finding a 'fluff' way of fixing things.



I suppose it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume a kill team could infiltrate enemy space. Perhaps for a flat fee (100 points or so) you can deliver your kill team to a battle site immediately before an attack. You can play a Kill-team battle targetting enemy supply lines as laid out in your rules.


The idea was to allow one kill-team mission per turn, per kill-team and both players had to agree on the possible outcomes. Hopefully finding outcomes that would benefit either side if they won.

I'd never really designed my rules with the idea of multiple planets in mind though. I guess a kill team could be left on a planet, and even if they were stranded wouldn't suffer the normal effects, since they were used to working in occupied territories and behind enemy lines.

Not sure how to drop them onto a planet though, or move them between planets, I'd have to look into that.




I hope you don't mind if I save the rules to my hard drive so I can reference them later.


By all means, go wild, copy, paste edit, distribute for money or print them out and menace the cat with them, all good.



*Imagining the fleet withdrawing before a big battle reminds me of the opening cut-scene in Brood War, when the Admiral's Battlecruiser leaves orbit after being alerted the base below will be overrun in minutes without intervention. Awesome...

Yeah, that's awesome, that scene came to mind when you mentioned it and it's perfect.

Now I'm sitting here thinking about how to incorporate Aeronautica Imperialis into this... Probably getting too complicated, but the thought of kill-teams just gave me a cool idea for an AI mission where you have to fly cover for an Aquilla lander or even an Arvus Lighter (love those models) as it tries to insert a team.

Earthbeard
04-07-2008, 14:10
Just briefly scanned the document while at work, but so far it looks good!

A Couple of points, you may want to state in the Character upgrade that a upgrade cannot get higher than 10 for a stat, obvious, but may create a slight argument.

The random events chart - it not possible to roll a 1 on 2d6, just change it to a d12, easy enough dice to get hold of!

the last thing, the army special rules seem to be better for some forces than others! Plus I think they should be expanded to include more variation (I know your local campaign as a select forces used, but maybe the extra rules/army benefits may encourage an expansion of different army collection).

But I like it, nice simple and decent system, have to see if we can get a couple of guys in the local area to give it a whirl and see how it plays?

Stinkfoot
04-07-2008, 19:41
If it were me, I would opt for a system-focused system over a sector-focused system. That way, any discussion of this or that race not being able to travel quickly enough would be quite moot.

That would certainly be a valid fix. I could see a binary star system having 15 or so planets/locations, which would be more than enough for a smallish campaign. I'd probably go ahead and say that all locations are considered adjacent to all others as well. It would make the game more up close and personal, but it would be fun no doubt.


I'd never really designed my rules with the idea of multiple planets in mind though. I guess a kill team could be left on a planet, and even if they were stranded wouldn't suffer the normal effects, since they were used to working in occupied territories and behind enemy lines.

Not sure how to drop them onto a planet though, or move them between planets, I'd have to look into that.

I think the best way to deal with this would be to not deal with it explicitly. The Kill team may travel aboard a smugglers ship, or have a small stealth ship of their own. Spy movies rarely spend much time talking about how the spy gets to the mission-site, they spend timing talking about what happens when he gets there. We should adopt a similar approach. Whatever the means fluff-wise, in game terms they just magically appear where needed and then are magically extracted after the battle. As such, the kill team would always be available and wouldn't have a location like other units. The points I suggested paying to deploy the team would likely represent the expensive of the delivery/extraction of the team, and it would give players some incentive to only use the team when necessary.

I can see what you mean about the harshness dropping and the theme (fun) increasing with a point-pool, with respect to the kill team missions at least. With the tracked-lists system I think you could still get by though with either 1) make the kill team missions harder or 2) soften the effect a bit - maybe the parts shortage causes a glancing hit with a -1 modifier to the damage table for example.

I thought about the guerrilla thing, and even tried to write some rules for it, but I'm really not sure how to go about it. I figure it would either be some arbitrary table that doesn't really add anything to the campaign except a bunch of unwanted randomness, or it would be a bunch of smaller battles that would bog down the flow of the game. If you have any ideas as to how to get around this however I'm all ears.

I thought "role-playing" might do the trick...

If you're going to run a squad-tracked campaign I'd suggest you write an army list like normal (with paper and pencil, army builder is not convenient as you'll want to erase things fairly often). In addition to squad size, type and equipment, keep track of experience and location (this is helped by naming ships and planets). I find that it's a good idea to leave plenty of space between entries so things don't get cramped as experience upgrades and squad notes start to accumulate.


The random events chart - it not possible to roll a 1 on 2d6, just change it to a d12, easy enough dice to get hold of!

This just proves the old adage: "I am an idiot." d12 it is then!

I agree that some armies have better special rules than others (Orks have a great rule, IG have basically nothing). Ideally all rules would be equal, but the Ork rule just seemed so... Orky that I couldn't not list it. In any event, if you have any suggestions for rules for other armies, or ways to balance the existing rules, I'm always happy to hear them.