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View Full Version : Vampire Counts Vs Brettonians, advice please :D



Grey Seer Skretch
03-07-2008, 09:11
Hi guys,

Got my first game with my VC list versus a heap of Brettonians being used by a very good player tonight! I've got an idea or two to try out, but any last minute general tactical advice would be great!

I'm running 2250 points as follows
Vampire Lord Lvl 4 with 6+ ward, magic +1 to hit sword, power stone and 2 scrolls.
Vampire Lvl 2 with black periapt and scroll
Vampire Lvl 2 with avatar of death, gem of black blood, scroll
Vampire Lvl 1 with avatar of death, eternal hatred, flayed hauberk and (the item that makes ppl WS1 for a turn)

30 skellies with hand weapon, shield, light armour and full command.

40 zombies with full command.

Corpse Cart with Balefire.

7 Black Knights with Banner of Barrows and full command.

Varghulf.

10 Ghouls inc Ghast.

4 spirit host bases.

the lord and the lvl 1 ride with the skelies, the 2 lvl 2s sit in the ghouls.

Its too late to be changing my list (and I can't afford that till nxt month anyways) but any general advice on what to do vs a brettonian army comprising grail knights, 2 units of 'of the realm', trebuchet, 2 units of archers, 2 damsels, a grail relic with lotsa pilgrims, and a couple of units of peasent spearmen with a knight-hero chap with 'virtue of sit in a peasent unit and bolster their ld'.

So...er...advice? assistance? Kind words? all accepted gratefully :)

badgeraddict
03-07-2008, 10:04
The most important thing for you to do, is not to put your general in a position in which he will be dual charged by 2 blocks of knights.

I'll give you an example;

I had a tournament game against my friend and warseer member Zak, he had his general in a large block of grave guard at the front of his battle line. Needless to say, I dual charged this block with a unit of 8 Grail Knights with Lord and a rather diminshed unit of 2 Knights of the Realm with BSB. Didn't even need to hit the Vamp as the whole unit crumbled to my obscene CR!

As well as protecting your General, you MUST make it your mission to kill the Bret BSB. If its anything like mine he will generate 3 CR on his own! Put into a block of 8 knights, that unit could have up to 6 CR. Kill the BSB. He is a flag wielding beast!

Hope this helps :)

Lord Khabal
03-07-2008, 10:15
Brettonia has no relevant magic phase so drop the CCart. You have 7 dd, thats more than your opponent will have in power dice...
why +1 to hit on the lord? brettonia rnfile isnt your concern. the knights are. give him S uprades (sword of might).
Personally I think your lord should be better protected. No AS and 6+WS wont cut it if he gets into combat. And why arent the vamps mounting something??
zombies suck. But thats just me...
Ethereal VS brettonia is lethal. consider using wraiths.

hope it helps. I'm not adept to tailoring lists, and I believe you should try to find a good all rounder, competitive list that you feel confortable with. Good luck!

Windings of a snake
03-07-2008, 10:27
After having had a dozen of games with my skeleton warriors army i got very annoyed y their limpy speed. Also did i find the skeletons not very enchanting by means of getting shot at by crossbows and handguns or of course RBT.

In addition there is nothing good left to say about them in terms of dealing any damageif your are not a very lucky guy/girl.

So I went to my local store in order to purchase seventy ghouls. Having to paint them would not be a great challenge as the new washes where at my disposale as well. So this was not going to take a lot of time. I did them in one week. Though the style left space for improvale the models have been put to a good standard within a short period of somewhat intense working.

My first doubts would be abolished very soon, after a couple of trial army lists I came to learn about the ability to move them before the game would commence. This would prove to be the greatest advantage you could buy for just 25 points.

Starting with two units to do some fighting in the frontal line at the size of 15 including a ghast, and one counting 12 in second line to carry each and every supporting char i did quiet well at first.

Let me put this in words and points.

Level 3 Vampire lord
master of black arts
dark acolyte
summon ghouls
sword of might
flayed hauberk
cursed book
4+ Ward save that "grants" stupid

His task would be obvious, kill and survive but formost and farmost summoning ghouls.

Necromancer
2 scrolls
Corpse Cart
Bell(additional models by using invocation)
van Hels Dance macabre

This char would carry the scrolls so much needed to counter the decesive spells.
The bell should enhance the summoning done and van Hels is allways a rather good option to have.

Vampire
Helm of commandment
black periapt
ghoulkin
summon ghouls

Core

15 Ghouls with Ghast

15 Ghouls with ghast

12 Ghouls

5 Dire Wolves

5 Dire Wolves

Special

21 Graveguards including great weapons and full command as well as the banner of burrows

3 Spirit hosts

3 Spirit hosts

2 Wraiths plus a banshee

5 Knights of the blood keep with standard


Another thing i found myself compelled to use was the dragon hunter.

It takes a unit of seven dire wolves including a champion.

Let them charge a griffon and his rider no matter rear, flank or frontarch. Then issue a challenge with the doom wolf!

You may even take maximum overkill of five and suffer the wound, never mind. As you will still outnumber the enemy this will cost you five of the wolves by CR. Meaning that the dragon and his rider would be disposed of for 2 rounds of CC. This is beeing achieved at the price of merely 6 wolves and the champion is sufficient to give it a try.

Grey Seer Skretch
03-07-2008, 10:50
Thanks guys, as I said tho changing the list (aside from item-wise) isn't really viable as I havent the money or time (game is tonite). I'm really more looking for advice like from Badgeraddict (thanks man, I'll watch out for the bsb!) on general tactics etc.

Solasun
03-07-2008, 12:37
Survive the first round of combat. He loses his lance bonus after that and that makes knights much less fearsome... well, not Grail Knights but...

Unleash IoN and pray you don't auto-wipe units from being charged.

Frankly
03-07-2008, 15:58
I'm running 2250 points as follows
Vampire Lord Lvl 4 with 6+ ward, magic +1 to hit sword, power stone and 2 scrolls.
Vampire Lvl 2 with black periapt and scroll
Vampire Lvl 2 with avatar of death, gem of black blood, scroll
Vampire Lvl 1 with avatar of death, eternal hatred, flayed hauberk and (the item that makes ppl WS1 for a turn)

30 skellies with hand weapon, shield, light armour and full command.

40 zombies with full command.

Corpse Cart with Balefire.

7 Black Knights with Banner of Barrows and full command.

Varghulf.

10 Ghouls inc Ghast.

4 spirit host bases.

the lord and the lvl 1 ride with the skelies, the 2 lvl 2s sit in the ghouls.



Nice list.

Alittle to much anti-magic I think, but I don't know what your environment is like. It's just that VC can take magic missile and nuke damage well, you really only need anti-magic on those 'self-casting' spells.

I personally don't leave home without the bookof arkhan and staff of damnation and try out the helm of command when you get a chance. All good items.

Please, please make that vampire a lvl2 mage so he gets extra dice when casting. :angel:

But they're all alittle things, stuff you'll pick up while your playing.

Doing you have any spare zombie models for summoning?

badgeraddict
03-07-2008, 16:09
I'm really more looking for advice like from Badgeraddict (thanks man, I'll watch out for the bsb!) on general tactics etc.

No problems dude :)

Good luck!

Grey Seer Skretch
04-07-2008, 07:49
Well, I lost the game by just over 500vps in the end, but it all swung on the last turn, hell of a good game. What I learned last night is that A.) its all very well successfully bogging your opponent down all game (oh god I,love those zombies, the grail knights were stuck for FIVE TURNS and must've hacked apart well over 100 despite the unit starting the game as 40...) but you've actually got to be killing them too. HIt about turn 5 and realised that while I had the enemy tar-pitted to hell all game, my army lacked enough punch to deal with the heavily armoured knights. Would anyone have recommendations on how to get around this with vamps?

My other lesson was B.) despite having a level 4, 2 level 2s and a level 1, all you can really do is grin and bear it if the only wizard who rolls up Van Hels is the level 1...dammit all...

Frankly
04-07-2008, 19:59
Good game Mr. Skretch.

Are you thinking of changing anything in your list for future games?

AngryAngel
04-07-2008, 20:47
Well for hitting power. Cairn wraiths come with str 5 a good number of attacks and etheral. Some charging units of knights of your own could help. Like some expensive blood knights.

Some GW using graveguard are also something not to over look.

Oberon
04-07-2008, 21:11
How about taking a pure castervamp, with helmf of command, master of black arts, and forbidden lore? There would be one vanhel for a good caster for certain, necros are not reliable. Zombies to the front, tar pit, then one fully ranked regiment of your own to their flank, and helm to the zombies again so they won't give too much CR, and and autobreak should happen. You have IMO too many points in characters that don't do all that much, have you thought about taking a BSB of your own (you can make the same +3CR bsb the brets can, except yours would be undead and tougher in battle than the bret paladin. price tag of 300 is a lot though). Try to fit warbanner in there somewhere. Did the spirit hosts do enough to keep them in your army? They are very expensive, perhaps something more hitty instead of them, and more wolves for redirecting. Your list has no sacrificial units of insignificant price whatsoever, spirit hosts are expensive and that big unit of zombies can do so much more.

Nedar
04-07-2008, 21:12
For hitting power, as stated in the post above, Grave Guard with Great Weapons take the cake IMO. Knights are all well and good, but are front loaded to do well in a charge. Grave Guard on the other hand will always have that S6 attack (with GW, HW/S is redundant in 99% of VC armies) to deal with anything big coming your way. Ogres, Knights, etc, normally give the VC fits...I have found that a solid GG block wielding GWs is an invaluable tool to deal with them.

If you can't afford it, even a simple block of 10-14 fielded two deep and either 5, 6, or 7 wide (The whole point is to get in those extra attacks). I've tried a GG w/ GW detachment before and they are effective, I just prefer my Blood Drinker lord leading a nice block he rarely has to magic back up to strength.