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ShiAlit
03-07-2008, 16:05
This is my first attempt at a fantasy army list. I am just getting into fantasy after getting sick of elf’s 40k. I am building both a Vampire counts army and a Dark Elf army(the will come later when the new models are out) I haven't gotten to play a game of fantasy yet as I live quite a distance from my nearest store. they are just too much fun to paint and convert lol. here is the list it is still very rough and I would appreciate any input.

Proposed Vampire Counts Army:

Heroes:
Vampire(General)(100), Red fury(50), Blood Drinker(40), Hellsteed(20)=210

Vampire(100), Forbidden Lore(35), Lord of The Dead(15), Dispel Scroll(25), Nightshroud(20)=195

Core Units:
Zombiesx20 Full Command= 92

Skeleton Warriorsx20 Full Command, Standard of Everlasting Death(15)=215

Skeleton Warriorsx20 Full command, Standard of Everlasting Death(15)==215

Bat Swarmx2=70

Special Units: None

Rare Units: None

Total:997

One thing I am lacking is cavalry I don't like the black knights or the dire wolves models so any input there would be great. I was thinking of some of the Blood Dragons as my Rare choice (then I can hide my mounted commander in that unit). please remember this is my very first list lol.

jme
03-07-2008, 16:29
Its a good start to your army, some solid core units. As a note you cant have the same migic item twice (apart from scrolls and power stones) so both skeleton units cannot have the same banner.
I would drop the swarms personally as I dont like them and take some dire wolves, have a look at some other companies as you dont like the GW models. I would also drop the command on the zombies, you dont need it, in fact I would be tempted to drop the zombies completely. I would also drop the blood drinker on the vamp as he does not have any other protection he will either die in one round or not. I would take Instead the sceptre de noirot to raise lots of zombies. Forbidden lore is also not much good as your only a level one wizard and can only roll a max of 2 dice per spell, dark acolyte would be better.
With the points saved I would be get a vargulf, at a 1000 points hes nasty! Good start for your first list tho, keep up the good work!

Belerophon709
03-07-2008, 18:20
Pretty nice work for a first-time-around-list.
As have been mentioned it has some quirks though.

Your general: In a 1000 point game, and a hero level character, I don't think Red Fury is worth it. I would sink the points into Infinite Hatred and Walking Death instead. Rerolling your attacks and having +1 static CR is nice. I'd also lose the Blood Drinker. Would opt for the Balefire Spike and the Flayed Hauberk instead. That leaves you with 15 points left to spend, which could be used for the Black Periapt, should you wish.

Your caster vamp: Forbidden lore on a lvl 1 is no thx. Dark Acolyte and Lord of the Dead (since you're going for skellies) is the way to go here. Personally, I wouldn't go for a Scroll in 1000 point games. Overkill if you ask me, since you have 4 DD already (5 if you bring the periapt and use it for DD). I'd bring the Book of Arkhan and lose the Nightshroud as well (I like Nightshroud, but I'd favour the Book in this case).

As for your Core:

I'd lose the zombies. You only need 2 core and since you're low on points (expensive chars and 1000 points), this is where you need to cut. If need arises, you can get zombies during the game.
I would also make the skeleton regiments smaller (give one unit War Banner, the other one Banner of the Dead Legion), since you can make them larger than their starting size via Lord of the Dead on your caster hero. Would save you some points.

Personally, I don't like bat swarms. Better choices all over the army book. I'd drop it.

Having cut the zombies, some skellies and the swarms, you should have some points left over. What your list needs is support and possibly another hard-hitter. If you've cut the skeleton regiments down to a starting size of 10 each, you should have enough points for both. A Varghulf and some Dire Wolves (possibly even some fell bats) would do the trick.

I took 5 minutes and wrote up a suggestion for you to think about:


General: Vampire, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Book of Arkhan @ 180p.

Hero: Vampire, BSB, Infinite Hatred, Walking Death, Balefire Spike, Flayed Hauberk, Black Periapt, Hellsteed @ 245p.

Core: 14 Skeleton Warriors, Full Command, War Banner @ 157p.
Core: 12 Skeleton Warriors, Full Command, Banner of the Dead Legion @ 141p.
Core: 5 Dire Wolves @ 40p.

Special: 3 Fell Bats @ 60p.

Rare: Varghulf @ 175p.

I switched it up a little bit here, made the caster hero the general (he'll be sitting back with the skeletons anyway) and made the other hero a BSB. This way he'll have a static CR of 2 (+1 for his banner and +1 for Walking Death). On top of that he'll have his 3 WS6 S7 (if he charges, otherwise S5) attacks. Coupled with the Vargulf, he can really mess things up in a 1000 point game. I added two support units in the form of the Dire Wolves and Fell Bats (alternative models are all over the place). The points that were left over, I used to add some more skeletons, so you have a larger base.


Hope it helps.

ShiAlit
03-07-2008, 19:50
Cool thanks for all the input, a few things of note, this is what I have now(based on what models I liked painting or converting). The goal for the general was to eventually throw him into a unit on horseback (this is for the move from 1000 to 1500-2000 at 2k he will become my lord). I really like the Varghulf and the blood dragons so I think ill take the advice and go with the smaller units of skellies, and the changes in the magic items for the commanders. For the 1500+ list ill take the zombies(they are just too pretty…I mean ugly not to field)

Belerophon709
03-07-2008, 21:19
Seems like a good plan.

Blood Dragons can be tricky to use. I find them best used in conjunction with screening fell bats to prevent a frenzy charge that will leave them sitting in the open. When the time comes, you can charge the bats away so the Knights are free to charge.

Regarding your general: While mounted on a Hellsteed he can't join units. So if you plan to stick him in with some horsemen, you have to rethink the whole Hellsteed part.
If you wish to keep him on the Hellsteed though, I suggest you make him a Lord and give him the following: Red Fury, Walking Death, Beguile, Dreadlance and Wristbands of Black Gold.

Since the Hellsteed is a cavalry mount, the Wristbands of Black Gold protects the entire model. He may seem frail in CC, but with Fury, Beguile and Dreadlance, he should be safe as long as you get the charge in.


Good luck!

ShiAlit
04-07-2008, 00:32
thank you :) you all are such a great help.

ShiAlit
04-07-2008, 14:53
Ok you think that there would be issues with me using blood dragon models to represent black knights? I really hate the way the black knight models look but I love the blood dragon models. Or would it simply be better to dismount the lord and throw him into a skele unit?

Belerophon709
06-07-2008, 00:50
First of: Mounted characters are allowed to join infantry units. Common misconception that it's against the rules.

Using Blood Dragon Knights as Black Knights to me sounds iffy unless it's just for proxy'ing. If you don't like the models, just make your own :D Lots of people use Bret or Empire Knights painted up to look "ghostly" to represent Black Knights.

Personally, I've made my own out of empire knights, replacing the helmets with 6th ed. skulls. Works just fine.


Cheers.

Stinkfoot
06-07-2008, 01:58
Personally, I've made my own out of empire knights, replacing the helmets with 6th ed. skulls. Works just fine.

I did the same thing with my black knights. They look pretty cool, and they're cheap as the set is plastic. That said, I doubt many people would have a problem with you using blood dragons (knights of blood keep?) as black knights, just be sure to state at the beginning of the game what they are.

Belerophon709
06-07-2008, 13:47
I did the same thing with my black knights. They look pretty cool, and they're cheap as the set is plastic. That said, I doubt many people would have a problem with you using blood dragons (knights of blood keep?) as black knights, just be sure to state at the beginning of the game what they are.

Don't think people would have a problem with it either. I just don't think the models are suited to play the part of BKs as a long-term deal. Alot of better options are available.

Windings of a snake
06-07-2008, 13:56
A real good start. Let me point out something very important for your games to come.

Increase the size of the games so you can include a vampire lord.

Nedar
06-07-2008, 17:29
There is a use for Forbidden Lore on a hero...Lore of Beasts for a few spells in there to easily cast on two dice, plus Bear's Anger for combat.

ShiAlit
07-07-2008, 17:32
As I read the vampire counts book, and look at the models, and more importantly read fluff in the form of books and short stories I am really getting excited by the army. So here are the modifications I am making.

1. the commander was a blood knight and still has his honor, but more so he truly respects it among his opponents he will seek out heroes from among his opponents and fight them, if successful I will add command models (lords or heroes or knights depending on the army I m fighting) later this will represent the vampire either turning the model or raising it as a goul/wight/whatever (I feel this is akin to Davy jones in the pirates of the carabin asking sailors ”do you fear death”). This I think will be interesting for me as I can continue to add to the army. I plan for this army to be a really big one(and I have already ordered a concerdable amount of new stuff for it).

2. I really want a horde army. Lots of skeletons, zombies and ghouls. So I think as a personal rule I am going to make it a low fantasy army (in game terms this means that over 60% of the army’s points MUST be spent in the core section). My reason for this is that I simply enjoy painting and converting the skeletons, zombies, and ghouls. I am not saying that I won’t have special and rare units.

3. this is more of a question does anyone else play low fantasy? My understanding of it from an old White Dwarf was that you make an army that has most of its points in the core section, has more limitations on character magic items and special and rare units. I understand that this is not a popular style of play but my favorite 40k army is my space wolves army which is centered around 50 basic marines( 2 blood claw packs, and 3 gray hunter packs all in transports).

Caiphas Cain
07-07-2008, 17:37
I dont know much about vampires, but i do know that having no specials or rare choices will really hurt you.

ShiAlit
08-07-2008, 00:52
i didn't say i wouldn't take any rare or special choices, just fewer than you see in the average army list.

Nedar
08-07-2008, 02:53
VC shine in taking more special/rare than average simply because their core aren't the most stellar fighters around. They also rely heavily on characters with good kits to help carry their sub-par troops through to win the day.

I'm not saying it's impossible to win with just troops, just considerably more difficult. And there are certain armies you will not stand a chance against without proper support from Special/Rare areas. However, if you take the right things and learn to play them well you can be just as effective with a Vargulf and a Black knight unit (can number under 300 points if you want them too for both).

If you are doing this consider a nice hefty block of zombies to start the game, and be sure you have decent magic to keep the horde running.

ShiAlit
11-07-2008, 16:16
Ok here is my revised list, i actually got to play a few of games with it this weekend and it did fair (lost against empire, lost against Chaos mortals, and won against high elves). i still have much to learn about this game as it is significantly diffrent from 40k. it is a far more adult and sofisticated game :).

one thing i noticed is that i am easly out manuvered and that hurt me, so i need some wolves like you all say...anyone know a company that makes some nice looking models for dire wolves? any other ideas or coments are more than welcome. i am adding more skeletons and a full unit of grave guard next as well as wolves when i find some i like.

Heroes:
General: Vampire(100), Dark Acolyte(30), Lord of the Dead(15), Book of Arkhan(35)=180 (Nightshroud maybe(20)(he will lead a unit of skeletons)

Hero: Vampire, BSB(25), Infinite Hatred(25), Walking Death(25), Balefire Spike(10), Flayed Hauberk(25), Black Periapt(15), Nightmare(8)=133 (he will be in the unit of black knights, I know they loose there spectral mount thing but I think it will be ok)

Core Units:
14 Skeleton Warriors, Full Command, War Banner=157p.

14 Skeleton Warriors, Full Command, Banner of the Dead Legion=157p.

Special Units:
7xBlack Knights(168), Musician(8), Hell Knight(16)

Rare Units:
Rare: Varghulf=175p.

Total:994

ScreamingDoombull
17-07-2008, 20:16
One question: Why 7 black knights?

Against 20mm base armies (dwarfs, empire, etc) one knight will be left out in the cold. I've always found cavalry works best at 6 wide. This way, everyone gets to fight.

Stinkfoot
18-07-2008, 01:02
You'll rarely make it to combat without losing anybody. Seven knights just means you still have full combat strength after you suffer a wound. You're right they won't all get to fight if they make it there unscathed, but how often has that happened to your knights?