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View Full Version : oopsie, what do we do now?



ChaosBeast
03-07-2008, 22:43
hi, i was playing a game at the weekend with my chaos marines. i had a chaos dreadnought and killed quite a few of my enemy, however, on the 3rd turn my opponent pointed out i'd forgotten to roll for his 'crazed' rule on the previous 2 turns. to be clear this was a genuine mistake on my part and i wasnt purposely cheating. now we did not know what to do next.what would you do:

1.) leave it, but pay extra attention later

2.)roll for the crazed results and abstract what might have happened had we remembered.

3.) start again from the first turn

4.) dice of death me- opponent picks a squad, i make a 4+ save for every model in the squad, if its failed, they die!

Darnok
03-07-2008, 22:50
Option 1 is the only meaningful. All the others are not really helping the game. If you and your opponent both forgot it, nobody is to blame (except maybe your memory), so game on. And remember it next time.

Hulkster
03-07-2008, 22:50
a simple mistake in a friendly game

just say whoops, make sure it doesnt happen again, and have fun.

I personally wouldnt have minded.

now in a competitive tournament it could have caused problems (including a possible DQ for you) but in a friendly setting it shouldnt matter

Vaktathi
03-07-2008, 22:55
Just play on and remember it, its generally not a huge deal, especially if its already in combat.

starlight
03-07-2008, 23:08
Since *both* sides forgot, game on.

In a tournament setting - doubly so - *BOTH* sides forgot, so you game on. This is why you learn your opponent's rules before you compete...

It's a *game*...played with *toys*...if you seriously need outside help to sort out what to do in a situation like this, perhaps you're taking it a bit too seriously...:eyebrows:

luckyguy
03-07-2008, 23:14
Would it really result in a DQ for the poster? Obviously I would just play on if I was on either side. I just wonder would it not really be the responsiblity of he who has the army rule to make sure it is used?

Stormhammers
03-07-2008, 23:21
option 1, everyone makes mistakes and forgets about things, you just have to learn from your mistakes. I once forgot about a vindicare for an entire game, set im up and he just sat around and watched the battle around him, hell, a falcon crashed right next to him and a wraithlord was hanging out next to him as well. Just game on and remember next time, nothing else you can really do.

Panzerkanzler
03-07-2008, 23:28
Since *both* sides forgot, game on.

In a tournament setting - doubly so - *BOTH* sides forgot, so you game on. This is why you learn your opponent's rules before you compete...


I think that approach to forgetting rules is retarded. It's not right to put the responsibility to know the rules for persons A army on person B. I think many players have at least a rough understanding of different armies, but if a player forgets to play his/her own army correctly, it is that persons very own fault...not his opponents. If you guys play in an enviroment where cheating is ok, as long as the opponent doesn't find out, I pity you. Honest mistakes are fine, just play on. But let's not put equal blame on both opponents when someone fails to follow the rules in ones own codex or the rulebook.

Coragus
03-07-2008, 23:40
If your opponent knew your army enough to know that your were supposed to be making that roll, then he's as at fault for forgetting as you were. Move along, it (statistically) probably wouldn't have affected the game anyway.

Darnok
03-07-2008, 23:42
I think that approach to forgetting rules is retarded. It's not right to put the responsibility to know the rules for persons A army on person B. I think many players have at least a rough understanding of different armies, but if a player forgets to play his/her own army correctly, it is that persons very own fault...not his opponents. If you guys play in an enviroment where cheating is ok, as long as the opponent doesn't find out, I pity you. Honest mistakes are fine, just play on. But let's not put equal blame on both opponents when someone fails to follow the rules in ones own codex or the rulebook.

You still have to differentiate between "normal" games and a tournament setting. As far as I know it is good manners between tournament players to know not only your rules by heart, but to have at least a basic knowledge of all other current rules at the moment - including your opponents Codex.

That said, your opponent is by no means to be blamed if you forget something. But to call "I forgot" it flat-out cheating in the first place is... dubious at best. You'd have at least to prove that you never forget anything.

starlight
03-07-2008, 23:53
I think that approach to forgetting rules is retarded. It's not right to put the responsibility to know the rules for persons A army on person B. I think many players have at least a rough understanding of different armies, but if a player forgets to play his/her own army correctly, it is that persons very own fault...not his opponents. If you guys play in an enviroment where cheating is ok, as long as the opponent doesn't find out, I pity you. Honest mistakes are fine, just play on. But let's not put equal blame on both opponents when someone fails to follow the rules in ones own codex or the rulebook.

Then it appears most of the members Posting here, and every gamer I've met personally, approach the game in a *retarded* fashion...including some of the people who designed the game...:eyebrows:

If the gamer (opponent of the Chaos Dread in this case) knew the rules well enough to pick up on it later in the game, then they knew enough earlier in the game as well. The knowledge didn't suddenly leap into their head during Turn 4...they simply forgot it until then...:eyebrows:

Why you feel the need to equate forgetfulness with cheating is beyond me, but that says more about you and your group than the rest of us...

No one said there was either blame, or an equal amount of responsibility in this situation.

What most *have* said is that given the earth-shattering consequences of a game of 40K:rolleyes:, it would likely be best to simply game on.

vladsimpaler
04-07-2008, 00:12
It's happened to me before, but on the other side. My friend was playing Orks, and he continually forgot about the thing where you need to roll a d6 each turn, and if you get a 1, then you can't fire.

Of course, karma got him when he actually remembered it: He rolled a 1.

But yeah, just game on. No biggie.

Unamed Consript
04-07-2008, 00:31
actually i learned in global class that karma only hits you when you die. It is the thing that tells what you are going to be in your next life. So karma has no affect on you until you do die.

Sorry bout that, just being picky.....


Anyways on with game. I have to be honest that i have forgotten a lot of things when i play. But generally your opponents dont care much cause they know they've done the same thing before.

Murphys Avatar
04-07-2008, 01:02
I forgot that my footslogging harlys had viel of tiers in the first round of shooting cause i was getting into the game. I lost em........ The moral of the story is that when two armies are set up and you get into it things get forgot, especially if beer is involved!! Dont worry unless, for instance, a player with two wraithlords claims to have forgot about wriathsight until the last turn............

RazielZian
04-07-2008, 04:19
I can honestly say that in 19 years of playing various war games, I've NEVER had a game where either myself or my opponent didn't forget something.

If its an honest mistake and both players missed it then play on and try to remember that one from now on, heck thats how you learn after all...

Of course that doesn't mean you can choose to 'forget' when it suits you best, me personally, if I forget more than once, I will offer my opponent the chance to re-roll one round of combat or shooting (at one attack per model) as a consolodation... although no one has taken me up on the offer.

Elliot
04-07-2008, 06:13
It's a friendly game, get on with it. I would consider your opponent a jerk if he made you do anything EXCEPT the first option.

big squig
04-07-2008, 06:22
Fun always always always comes first. Just apologize, call it a fluke, and move on. But try not to do it again.

If he still seems a bit erked about it, buy him a drink after the game.

Griffin
04-07-2008, 08:25
Either leave it or just role 2 tests to see if you shoot your own stuff. Not really a game stopper so to speak. Do whatever will keep the game fun!

Warpcrafter
04-07-2008, 08:35
In this specific example, I've had several games in a row where I only rolled a 1 or 6 once, and then only once it resulted in a single friendly casualty, so It's really not wrth this level of consideration. It's not like all those times in WFB where my Wood Elf lord forgot to shoot his hail of doom arrow, or my Chaos Warrior battle standard bearer forgot to roll the attacks for that banner (I forget the name, heh...) that puts out fireballs or lightning bolts or something. I actually miss second edition 40K, where the edge of the tabletop was covered with cards to remind me of all the crap I'd spent precious points on.:skull::skull::skull:

Eulenspiegel
04-07-2008, 09:40
I would consider your opponent a jerk if he made you do anything EXCEPT the first option.
Exactly my opinion.

ChaosBeast
04-07-2008, 09:55
ok, so most people would just play on. just to make it clearer to anyone who dosnt know, 'crazed' is a negative rule that might not let you shoot at all or shoot your own squad

EarlGrey
04-07-2008, 10:04
It's happened to me before, but on the other side. My friend was playing Orks, and he continually forgot about the thing where you need to roll a d6 each turn, and if you get a 1, then you can't fire.

Whoah, what's this rule? There is an Ork player at our local club... he's never rolled for this or even mentioned it. Is it an old rule from the previous codex perhaps?

On topic: No point playing backwards. Since it's a game of dice, it's quite fair to just assume you passed. We do it all the time for all sorts of forgotten things, moral tests in particular. But it depends how far away you are from the event of course. Anything more than a player turn isn't worth going back for. :)

Earthbeard
04-07-2008, 10:06
I do this as well as forgetting reserves.

Never intentional, it's just a simple mistake, go with option 1.

Aaron
04-07-2008, 10:32
If you want to be a good sportsman, roll the dice 3 times and let your opponent pick their favoured result for turn 3.

Hokiecow
04-07-2008, 10:37
Friendly mistake, the opponent should had payed closer attention as well.

Doomseer
04-07-2008, 10:37
Nevermind, if it was an accident play on and try not to do it again!

adreal
04-07-2008, 10:45
Whoah, what's this rule? There is an Ork player at our local club... he's never rolled for this or even mentioned it. Is it an old rule from the previous codex perhaps?



looted vechiles, if they roll a one I think they press the wrong button or something like that, really minor and very easy to forget, but yeah I belive that is what he was refering to, if your local OPrk player is using looted vechiles then it matters, otherwise eh

Finnith
04-07-2008, 10:47
I do stuff like this all the time. Mostly its trying to put 2nd edition or fantasy rules into the game even if its worse than what happens in the 4th. Moving marines 4 inches a turn, trying to hit on a 4-5+ then giving them a cover save at the same time :(. Usually gets picked up on very fast by me or my opponent quickly so it can be ignored.

Other week i forgot about the blight grenades on my plague marines when charged by 20 odd ork boys. Only remembered after id lost 1 marine and decided to leave it at that rather than redo the combat.

Kriegschmidt
04-07-2008, 11:13
I nearly voted "Dice of Death!" just cos it sounds so cool. I think MorningLightMountain and I should employ that rule everywhere :D

"Arh damn, forgot to roll for wraithsigh-"
"DICE OF DEATH! DICE OF DEATH!"

"Sorry, I was going to put the kettle on earlier, wasn'-?"
"DICE OF DEATH! DICE OF DEATH!"

:D
On a serious note though, if the mistake had been in the current turn and something critical had happened, we would go back and change it. Otherwise, we'd leave it and pay more attention in future turns. An example of one of the few times we'd change it:

In MorningLightMountain's turn I had 3 wounds left on my Lord of Change. We thought that monstrous creatures could fire as many weapons as they liked, so MLM's wraithlord fired both flamers, plus his missile launcher and scatter laser at my Lord of Change. The flamers knocked off 1 wound (and killed some other models nearby) and the ML and scatter laser knocked off the other two wounds, killing it. At the end of that turn, in a moment of doubt we checked the rules for monstrous creatures and saw that they can only fire two weapons. So MLM went for the flamers' results and was quite happy for me to put the Lord of Change back with the 2 wounds left that the heavy weapons had removed.

Pika_power
04-07-2008, 12:34
Hmm...

First roll to see if it would have mattered. (I do this tons. If a disagreement arises about LOS, we just roll that separately, and see if it matters. Then if it does, we start debating it.

Grey Seer Skretch
04-07-2008, 13:13
Wow, can't believe the level of grumpiness this question triggered with some people. I didn't vote on the poll coz to be fair, I think it's kinda pointless. No offence to poster at all, but I reckon the answer is pretty self explanatory as you can't go back and abstract games (that way lies madness) and you would have to be batsh*t crazy to go back and start a whole game over again due to something this minor.

The main reason I'm posting is to advise a word of warning against 'dice of death' as this was also mentioned. If people have gotten into the habit of doing this in their games, really don't! DofD is used (sorry, SHOULD be used) only as an absolute last resort in GW stores by staffers as a punitive measure to prevent kids from knowingly and intentionally cheating (it does wonders, but only if used sparingly and intelligently). Its really not meant to creep into people's normal day-to-day gaming, and is a sure way to get landed with an unfair, broken game, or an argument...

Thoth62
04-07-2008, 15:07
It was an honest mistake, so I see no problem with have the game continue while just paying closer attention to it next time. Like another poster has said (although I haven't been playing as long as he has...), I've been playing this game for going on 9 years now, and I rarely, if ever have a game where simple, forgetfull little mistakes haven't been made. Just play on, and try to remember them when the situation comes up again.

Freakiq
04-07-2008, 15:12
Since the 'Crazed' roll can be both a boon and a hindrance for the chaos player I'd let it slide but make sure he remembers it from now on.

'Don't press dat!' rolls for Ork vehicles is a whole other thing though, if my opponent forgets about it the two first turns he'll have to roll two extra dice in the third turn and if any of those is a 1 the vehicle will zoom forward according to the rule.

Chem-Dog
04-07-2008, 15:16
I say you leave it, on occasion you forget to do things that you should (Morale tests at the end of the shooting phase are a classic for me) if you can resolve it without actually having to stop and seriously think about it, if not leave it.

Sincity
04-07-2008, 15:19
I've done this sort of thing , in the past , also. Being a good sport , and it being my responsability to play my army correctly , I will offer to "fail" the next one or more rolls. If my opponent also makes errors of this kind I will offer it as a wash or offer as above.
On the other hand I have played people who refuse to offer corrections ( and play wrong ) , with them its WYP(lay)IWYG.

Sincity

Condottiere
04-07-2008, 15:29
As it's not a tournament, just acknowledge the mistake, and see if there's a possibility of compensation. I like the suggestion of taking the other guy out for a drink afterwards!

starlight
04-07-2008, 16:57
Regarding the Dice of Death, I think that this might work with a couple of guys I know...but we play on a level not permitted in stores. :angel: That is to say, after a few beverages, we care about the fiddly little rules even less than normal.:p

Most of our games end up as either Massacres or *draws*;) because we can't be bothered figuring out who won. The beer and pizza level is *so* much more fun. :D

ChaosBeast
04-07-2008, 17:20
it seems that statisstically a dreadnought would make little difference so people'd let it slide. but hypothetically what would you do for something more powerful, like a Khorne Lord of Battles in Apocolypse who also has the crazed rule?
just out of interest.

starlight
04-07-2008, 17:24
Same thing. :rolleyes:


It's a game people. Seriously, who cares if a plastic toy beats up on another plastic toy? It's supposed to be about the having fun with mates part. If you really need to win that badly, perhaps something like chess might be more your style...?:eyebrows:

victorpofa
04-07-2008, 18:06
Since *both* sides forgot, game on.

Absolutely. One of the few games I have played was with an experienced Eldar player who just went back to them from his Chaos force for the first time since well before the new codex was released. He forgot to roll for Wraithsight for his Wraithlord for a few turns, and forgot they can only fire 2 weapons per turn. No big deal. It was not on purpose, and it did not save his infantry from my Blood Claws. :evilgrin:

Promethius
04-07-2008, 18:45
Swings and roundabouts really, I think. I would play on. It's apples and pears that just as you forgot a rule that could have been disadvantageous this time around, at some point you've probably forgotten that special save for having bionics, or that you gave x character meltabombs, therefore meaning that you missed an opportunity somewhere. If it was an honest mistake, then don't worry about it. God, I remember going a whole game in 2nd edition and forgetting about my vortex grenade until it was a bit late. I could have had that carnifex, I'm sure of it.

adreal
04-07-2008, 23:03
Well my last fantasy game I forgot that the casket of souls means a -1 to cast for enemy wizards, even after pointing that out, I again forgot the rule, let my opponent get call of the hunt off pretty much everytime (casting value 11 and he kept rolling 11, if I had remembered he would have had to roll 12 or above), did it matter......well yeah but did we care.....nope. We just let it slide and enjoyed a very close game (6pts difference in my favour in the end)

Fideru
04-07-2008, 23:26
Eh, you forget things. Just remember it next time.

One good thing is to right down a checklist of what your special rules are for the units your using.

May be a pain in the ass to check with every turn, but, you definatly remember them after a while.