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W0197158
04-07-2008, 00:31
Hey all. As stated I am having some trouble coming up with a decent way to selecting Hero's and using the last 40 points to maximum effect. Although I haven't played my Vampires yet (or ever for that matter), I am worried that I don't have enough power dice for the spell based army that Vampire Counts usually is. While I might opt out the Necro for another casty vampire, the points saved when combined with unused points comes no where near to purchasing what I would consider an effective Vampire Hero. What are your thoughts? Is the list decent enough too just use the remaining points to buy troops, or should I think about cutting units (such as one of the dire wolves) and try to squeeze out a vampire hero after all?

LORDS

Vampire Lord: 435 (Goes with Skeletons with spears)
Extra Magic Level
POWERS: Master of the Black Arts, Lord of the Dead, Know all spells
EQUIPMENT: Helm of Commandment, Crown of the Damned, Black Periapt, Hand Weapon

HEROES

VAMPIRE: 195 (Goes with Ghouls)
POWERS: Dark Acolyte , Lord of the Dead
EQUIPMENT: The Flayed Hauberk, Sword of Battle, Talisman of Lycni

Necromancer: 190 (Goes with hand weapons )
MOUNT: Corpse Cart w/ Unholy Lodestone
EQUIPMENT: Book of Arkhan, Hand weapon

Total: 820


CORE

14 Skeletons: 128
COMMAND: Standard Bearer, Champion
MAGIC BANNER: NA
EQUIPMENT: Hand Weapon, Shield, Light Armor

13 Skeletons: 133
COMMAND: Standard Bearer, Champion
MAGIC BANNER: NA
EQUIPMENT: Spears, Hand Weapon, Shield, Light Armor

17 Ghouls: 144
COMMAND: Crypt Ghoul
EQUIPMENT: Hand Weapon

5 Dire Wolves: 40
COMMAND: NA

5 Dire Wolves: 40
COMMAND: NA

Total: 485

SPECIAL

5 Black Knights: 177
COMMAND: Standard Bearer, Hell Knight
MAGIC BANNER: Banner of the Dead Legion (25)
EQUIPMENT: Lance, Hand Weapon, Shield, Heavy Armor, Steed

18 Grave Guard: 303
COMMAND: Standard Bearer, Seneschal
MAGIC BANNER: Banner of the Barrows
EQUIPMENT: Great Weapons, Hand Weapon, Heavy Armor

Total: 480

RARE

Varghulf
EQUIPMENT: Hand Weapon

Total: 175

Grand Total: 1960

POWER DICE: 10/11
DISPEL DICE: 6/5

epichobby
04-07-2008, 06:04
imo the necromancer is critical. you gotta keep those zombies coming out of the ground.

Nedar
04-07-2008, 09:15
I actually run a list very much like this. It was a new one I came up with the other day and was able to play test it twice today. I always play 2250 (standard tourny size, and it is honestly 10 times better than 2000).

Essentially I run a Hybrid lord, same exact necro as you (Pick up the balefire, it will be more valuable than the loadstone in most games...i guarantee it). And my hero vamp is the same save Sword of Might (strength 6 is better imo) and no tali as she don't go anywhere.

I also have a Wight King BSB with drakenhoff banner for my GG unit (with general). My general runs Red Fury (mabie drop form MotBA down the road, doubt it), DA and LotD with a Blood Drinker, BLOODY hauberk, and BP. These two characters go with my GW wielding GG at 16 models 6x3...a VERY good unit if i do say so myself.

I have no ghoul unit (swap yours for skelys, or go with a 5x2 or 6x2 throwaway flanking ghoul unit). I just run a 14 strong with my hero vampire with Dead Legion, and two 10 strong spear skeleton units with ONLY a standard bearer. One unit has Cursed Pendent, the other has Hellfire banner. This is two throwaway-able (or beefupable) units that give me a ton of new options (Hello Mr. Scary treeman, meet 10 flaming spear attacks and no challenge to be seen), plus a unit I can just let die and tie up a unit for a turn or three, and even give a chance at no banner for them for fun.

2 units of 5 wolves are the same, Vargulf is the same. I have no black knights, but I have a unit of Wraiths (first game I had a coach, wraiths I like more after game 2).

Now, my list runs 9 Power Dice with a BP, and 6 Dispell at 2250...a magic heavy VC list runs about 12 average.

If you play well you will have enough magic, for example. My first game today was against this kid at our store who is essentially the king of cheese. He plays High Elves and Eldar and constantly playes the CHEESIEST lists imaginable. His list today consisted of Teclis and THREE mages.

He was pumping out 2+d3 PD in the pool (I had coach and stole about 3 or 4 over the game), Teclis with is obscene amount of 6-8 personal dice or something, and three level 2 mages...something like 16-18 PD usually. I have all of 6 DD and no scroll (I despise scrolls in vampire lists, too much important stuff to take).

He raped my GG unit, he nuked my wolf unit (had 1 in first game) before it moved. He oblitered a spear skely unit (9 models then bolt throwered the last). He got off Flame of the Phoenix (one of the gayest spells ever IMO, like a good Curse of Years) no less than 3 seperate times and had it hit on second turn twice i think. By the time I got 1/3 way across the board my GG were down to 2 models, and my 15 strong skelly unit was at about 8 or 10.

About turn 3 however, I got into combat with the spell casting bastard. My vargulf and fell bats (I run 5 Fell Bats over knights) raped his 10 bowmen and a bolt thrower. The vargulf overran into Teclis' unit, and killed him in the next round of combat and stayed there due to regen. My Coach charged his spearmen and wiped out almost half the unit (got all upgrades after a round of combat). My Lord charged out of my 15x skeleton unit to solo a mage (this was hillarous actually) and I proceeded to rape his entire army in 3 or 4 combats.

So...while this is a long post (i'm way too detailed >:) ). It goes to show you that you aren't entirely light on magic. I never got a single spell off in my first three turns, and miscasted Summon Undead Horde on turn 2 (I wasn't gunna try to push IoN through 11 or 12 dispell dice, had to go for broke). He got a free spell IIRC...big woop.

Now, down to your list...it is very good IMO. Drop the ghouls (or shrink them), use the points for a few more skeletons or magic banners (Biggest reason to ever take skeletons over ghouls as basic troop is magic banner tbh). And that would be about it...consider Hellish Vigor on black knights so they can be faster, playtest to see which you like more.

If you go up to 2250 however, I would add either: Wraiths, or another hero with a battle standard (Remember, you can have a normal vampire just the way you want and just add a BSB for 25 points). That'll give you +1 CR somewhere, and more magic if you want it (DA+LotD, with a fighty kit or hide back with a Crown of Command).

Sorry for the wall of text, but I want to help you as best I can. Also, you rock for chosing Grave Guard (with GWs no less) in your first list.

W0197158
09-07-2008, 08:28
So after some advice from both Nedar and epichobby is the new fiddled list that I have put together. While I have currently choosen to keep the lodestone on the cart, I will experiment in the future with other options to see how they work with this same exact list. What do you all think?

LORDS

Vampire Lord: 435 (Goes with Skeletons with spears)
Extra Magic Level
POWERS: Master of the Black Arts, Lord of the Dead, Know all spells
EQUIPMENT: Helm of Commandment, Crown of the Damned, Black Periapt, Hand Weapon

HEROES

VAMPIRE: 195 (Goes with Ghouls)
POWERS: Dark Acolyte , Lord of the Dead
EQUIPMENT: The Flayed Hauberk, Sword of Battle, Talisman of Lycinn

Necromancer: 205 (Goes with hand weapons )
POWERS: Invokation, Danse
MOUNT: Corpse Cart w/ Unholy Lodestone
EQUIPMENT: Book of Arkhan, Hand weapon

Total: 820


CORE

14 Skeletons: 128 (4 ranks of 5 with Necromancer)
COMMAND: Standard Bearer, Champion
MAGIC BANNER: War Banner
EQUIPMENT: Hand Weapon, Shield, Light Armor

17 Skeletons: 179 (3 Ranks of 6 with Vampire Lord
COMMAND: Standard Bearer, Champion
MAGIC BANNER: Banner of Hell Fire
EQUIPMENT: Spears, Hand Weapon, Shield, Light Armor

11 Ghouls: 96 (2 Ranks of 6 with Vampire)
COMMAND: Crypt Ghoul
EQUIPMENT: Hand Weapon

5 Dire Wolves: 40
COMMAND: NA

5 Dire Wolves: 40
COMMAND: NA

Total: 485

SPECIAL

5 Black Knights: 177
COMMAND: Standard Bearer, Hell Knight
MAGIC BANNER: Banner of the Dead Legion (25)
EQUIPMENT: Lance, Hand Weapon, Shield, Heavy Armor, Steed

18 Grave Guard: 303
COMMAND: Standard Bearer, Seneschal
MAGIC BANNER: Banner of the Barrows
EQUIPMENT: Great Weapons, Hand Weapon, Heavy Armor

Total: 480

RARE

Varghulf
EQUIPMENT: Hand Weapon

Total: 175

Grand Total: 1998

POWER DICE: 10/11
DISPEL DICE: 6/5