PDA

View Full Version : Chaos Gods: Suicidal?



New Cult King
04-07-2008, 12:05
I was discussing the issue of the Chaos Gods taking over the galaxy after extinguishing the Astronomicon/the Emperor/Terra etc., with a guy I play Dark Heresy with, and we got to discussing what their exact intentions were.

I mean, if the Big Four wipe out Humanity, they will effectively wipe out the source of their very being. If they were to take over the material galaxy, would they wipe out humanity, or enslave it in order to feed themselves forever? And if they achieved the latter, what then?

I wonder if the Chaos Gods exist in other galaxies...

Mayhap if the Hive Fleets devour humanity, they will kill off the Chaos Gods.

Just some ramblings...

Iuris
04-07-2008, 12:12
Ah, but they don't want to exterminate humanity - just corrupt it forever. Demon worlds all over, entire galaxy given over to worship - that's a good start. Then, they can finally properly focus on the great game...

Melchor
04-07-2008, 12:17
I believe I read somewhere that the Big Four exist in multiple dimensions, so their death in 'our' reality wouldn't nessecarily mean their demise. Not sure if I remember correct though.

But you do have a point. The Chaos gods ultimately strive for the destruction of the material universe and I doubt they realise it. They just do what they do.

Maybe Tzeentch does know but I doubt he plans for it or even cares.

Condottiere
04-07-2008, 12:37
The problem with trying to figure this out, is that you are dealing with a physical phenomenon that all matter in our universe will suffer ultimate entropy. In that sense, Chaos does win, and possibly by winning, it also loses.

The image of Ourobos comes to mind, the wyrm endlessly swallowing itself.

On the other hand, it might just be a normal process, which ends with a renewal of the material universe and the start of a fresh cycle.

pookie
04-07-2008, 12:55
its not just humanity though that worships the Chaos Gods, plenty of other races do, thats partly why the Imperium is so Xenophobic.

ctsteel
04-07-2008, 13:37
It may also be that in becoming as large and 'sentient' in the warp as the gods are, they have developed their own impetus and will not die out if their worshippers dry up, but continue to live on under their own power, somewhat like a self-sustaining whirlpool in the warp, big enough to become strong enough to keep itself going.

Colonel Puti
04-07-2008, 13:42
I mean, if the Big Four wipe out Humanity, they will effectively wipe out the source of their very being. If they were to take over the material galaxy, would they wipe out humanity, or enslave it in order to feed themselves forever? And if they achieved the latter, what then?
Haven't the chaos gods already done that. Humanity is locked in endless battle agains the minions of the chaos gods, and so provide the gods with rage, death, pleasure and hope, the essens from which the gods are made of.

I wonder if the Chaos Gods exist in other galaxies...
They exist in the Immaterium, which is not restricted to 40k's galaxy, as far as I know.

Mayhap if the Hive Fleets devour humanity, they will kill off the Chaos Gods.
The Hivefleets have some funny movement paterns. They were orginally all heading towards the Tau empirie, and towards each others. Now the
Hivefleet Leviathan is going towards Terra, but also Maelstrom and The Eye of Terror, the biggest warpstorms in the galaxy. Off topic, yes, but interesting :)

Grom Wronghand
04-07-2008, 14:51
Now I'm no expert, but if Chaos ends up killing itself and decaying, wouldn't that just empower Nurgle?

heretics bane
04-07-2008, 15:45
Nope because they would'nt be technicly "decaying" as in decomposition mushrooms help with but more as a smilie?

I think thats how it would go.

They want to curropt humanity and use them as slaves etc. so than can get more power since humans are the most numerous,pyshicly touched race in this galaxy.

DarkMatter2
04-07-2008, 16:00
Haven't the chaos gods already done that. Humanity is locked in endless battle agains the minions of the chaos gods, and so provide the gods with rage, death, pleasure and hope, the essens from which the gods are made of.

The vast majority of humanity worships the Emperor, which fuels the power of the Emperor, who basically acts as a giant constraining force on the power of Chaos.

As long as the Emperor exists, Chaos is held back from being much of anything really.


They exist in the Immaterium, which is not restricted to 40k's galaxy, as far as I know.

There is no indication that the Chaos Gods exist outside of the Milky Way. The only extra galactic force we know of is the Tyranids.

Khaeron Baoth
04-07-2008, 19:57
Isn`t chaos interdimensional power? I thought it always that way.

Dark Primus
04-07-2008, 21:30
The only extra galactic force we know of is the Tyranids.

I believe the Orks has also traveled to other galaxies.

Colonel Puti
04-07-2008, 23:11
The vast majority of humanity worships the Emperor, which fuels the power of the Emperor, who basically acts as a giant constraining force on the power of Chaos.
In chaos gods' point of view this is the situation. But chaos gods are just manifestos of basic survival emotions: hate, despair, pleasure and hope. Without these emotions existing in the material universe the chaos gods would cease to exist. If the chaos gods would enslave all the sentient species in the galaxy they could get their share of hate and despair (for a while), but pleasure and especialy hope would be much harder to achieve. One needs to remember that chaos gods don't want to feel rage, pleasure, despair and hope, they want sentient species of the material real to feel them. So the situation is more or less optimum for the big four, but they dont', and in mater of fact can't, realise it.

There is no indication that the Chaos Gods exist outside of the Milky Way. The only extra galactic force we know of is the Tyranids.
Chaos gods don't exist in the Milky Way, they exist in parellel universe know as the Immaterium ;)

I think that the Tyranids are an prime argument for the existant of extracalactic sentien species other that what is show in the fluff. The different hivefleets are arriving in Milky Way from mulpitle directions. As a members of the same species with a common place of origin they must have had some reason to break up on their way to "us". And as far as the fluff can tell only thing that Tyranids care about are living things. So there must be living things atleast in one other part of the universe other than Milky Way that has lured the Tyranids to go there.

That turned out to be long and bad argument, but it shows that there is reasonable doupt to believe that there are sentient species outside our galaxy. That opens up the posibility that there might be species with "needed" emotions. Until someone can come up with a piece of fluff that says warp is limited to our galaxy or chaos gods can only act in the part of the warp "positioned" with Milky Way, I say that there is a posibility that chaos gods do exist in other parts of the universe. Altought I also think that this is pretty unrelevant :D

Starchild
05-07-2008, 02:50
What the Chaos Gods want is to fuse real space with warp space. By overthrowing races and civilizations, the barriers between the two weaken. The Fall of the Eldar is the best example of that.

There's another goal mentioned in Realm of Chaos: If mankind becomes as twisted as the Eldar were, the galaxy would be engulfed in warp-real space overlap, and a Fifth Chaos power would be born to join the present great Four.

DarkMatter2
05-07-2008, 10:47
In chaos gods' point of view this is the situation... So the situation is more or less optimum for the big four, but they dont', and in mater of fact can't, realise it.

No, it is not.

As the new rulebook says, if the Emperor were to cease to influence events, Chaos would bleed into reality and demons and the Chaos Gods would rule over everything, which is Chaos' actual goal.


Chaos gods don't exist in the Milky Way, they exist in parellel universe know as the Immaterium ;)

Regardless, the only area they ever act in is the Milky Way.


And as far as the fluff can tell only thing that Tyranids care about are living things.

Not true - the Tyranids are known to attack Necrons and eat metal. They are after more than just living things.


So there must be living things atleast in one other part of the universe other than Milky Way that has lured the Tyranids to go there.

The Tyranids attack and feed. It has nothing to do with Chaos.

heretics bane
05-07-2008, 17:13
Well we know there are other races that could keep the chaos gods going. In the ultramarines novel when the board the hive ship dont they find a big turtle like creature from a different galaxy?

And i'd doubt the old ones would only have colonised one galaxy.

New Cult King
05-07-2008, 22:45
I wonder if there'd be enough of any other race to keep the Big Four going. The Eldar are extremely guarded against their influence and are low in number, the Orks don't care, the Tyranids don't care, the Tau don't register. The other mentioned races like Hrud and Demiurg seem to be fairly small in number - nothing like the teeming billions of souls that humanity is comprised of.

Shyft
06-07-2008, 03:01
the chaos gods were created out of emotion, as previously stated, (and there are lots more than just 4, the big four are the ones that have the most influence).

the immaterium however, while pretty much anti-laws of physics and reality as we know it, does have it's own set of rules. Let's assume someone in the materium kills a chaos god: all the energy and emotion that went into that god (for sixty million years, mind you.) Would suddenly have to go somewhere

that somewhere is everyone who has a warp presence. Lets say the eldar killed Slaanesh, which is their main goal. All that perfectionism, the good and the bad, will go right back into everybody who can feel it. And slaanesh would come back, triggering another eye of terror.

Just an observation.

Ddraiglais
06-07-2008, 08:16
For starters, we don't know what other galaxies contain. There is a very real possibility of intelligent life in other galaxies. The turtle dudes are an example. The big question is if the same immaterium (sp) extends to those galaxies as well.

Secondly, other races' emotions feed Chaos. Humanitiy might be the big source, but there are many other sentient beings in the galaxy that have similar emotions to humans.

Lastly, the destruction of the Emperor and the Imperium doesn't have to mean the destruction of humanity. There are humans and mutants in the Eye of Terror. They worship the Chaos gods. I'd be surprised if they didn't also feed the Chaos gods with their emotions. If the Eye extended across the galaxy, I'm sure that there would be plenty of Chaos worshipers left. There would also be plenty of war, disease/decay, pleasure, and sorcery/change.

Diamond Suns
07-07-2008, 12:54
Chaos is a weird topic to discuss so broardly, after all we don't know alot about chaos itself, daemons for example ae they inextinguishable resource like the Tyranids hive fleets, or are the Tyranids some strange genetic morph which spawned from chaos? Humanity is the main force from which chaos draws its powers due to sheer number, yet the Eldar have had a battle with Chaos since before the creation of humanity i am led to beileve, hence the soul stones the Eldar Warriors are equpied with to stop their souls being taken by the chaos gods, altho their destruction along with the destruction of humans would give the chaos gods plenty to survive off from mainly orks.

As orks by nature kill themselfs the chaos gods wouldn't even need to intervene to cause great amounts of power for themselfs. Altho some genetic modifications would be kool ( super sized chaos orks figfhting :D). From the Dawn Of War PC games tho you get the impression the Orks are easily controled by the Chaos powers.