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tanka
04-07-2008, 13:32
This is what my potential GT list looks like at the moment, still not 100% on it, but I like it so far. Tried to make it hard without taking the staff or drakenhoff.

Vampire Lord, Helm of Commandment, Dispel Scroll, Book of Arkhan, Master of the Black Arts, Lord of the Dead, Level 3=410pts
Provides the raising and magic.

Vampire, BSB, Infinite Hatred, Walking Death, Balefire Spike, Flayed Hauberk, Black Periapt, Nightmare=233pts
Plays hunt the herald/treeman/dryads etc. Starts off with +2CR, he can hold nearly anything for a turn or 2.

Necromancer, ION and Vanhels, 2 Power Stones=110pts
The personal trainer of choice, gets all those bodies moving.

14 Skeletons, Standard, Champion=128pts
14 Skeletons, Standard, Champion=128pts
Standard units, nothing fancy.

20 Zombies=80pts
Stank/Dragon/GD tarpit.

5 Dire Wolves=40pts
5 Dire Wolves=40pts
Nothing but good things to say about these units.

6 Black Knights, Barding=168pts
6 Black Knights, Barding=168pts
Not sure on these, I used to run them with standards but found the extra 100Vps tipped quite a few battles.

Vargulf=175pts
Vargulf=175pts
Started to really like these. Especially useful against deamons and wood elves.

1855pts

So this is how it stands at the moment, with 145pts spare.
Any opinions are welcome, chop it to bits unit-by-unit even.

I'm not sure if it has enough raising potential, but I don't really want another magic user.
Cheers.

blurred
04-07-2008, 14:38
I've just started collecting the VC so take my advice with a bit of salt. ;)

I like the list. The necromancer is quite an interesting choice and probably pretty powerful too as no one expects him to cast two spells with 3 dice.

I'm a bit worried about your hitting power, but the black knights and varghulfs help. The vampire should come in handy too in the killing department. Maybe you could switch the second varghulf to a unit of 5 wraiths. Believe me, they are nasty.

I'd also spend at least some of your remaining points on the two skeleton blocks. As you said, your magic phase is strong but not overpowering so you might need the extra models.

Hope this helped. :)

Stinkfoot
04-07-2008, 19:02
I think you're a bit magic light, and would probably spend at least some of those spare points of your on Dark Acolyte for your lord. Being able to throw 8, +1 to cast, IoNs a turn is nothing to laugh at.

Maybe you've had more luck than me with Wolves, but since the new book came out I think I've used them once, and they died before they could do anything. I suppose if they survived long enough they could redirect some charges or kill a war machine or two, but then so could raised zombies, which are free. I think you should include another unit of skellies, and I would probably harvest the wolves to get the points.

With whatever points you have left over I think I'd get more skeletons. You don't have so much raising power that you can rely on getting the skellies up to outnumbering-strength all the time.

tanka
04-07-2008, 22:05
I tend to use the wolves on the flanks, each flank has a wolf unit, black knight unit and a vargulf. The centre holds whilst the flanks are mopped up before the flanks come in to combo charge what's left.

On the wraiths, hmm I've been thinking about them a lot, 5 or 6 wraiths would be pretty much all my remaining pts. Problems with the wraiths are the 2 armies I expect the most of (WEs and DOCs) have a lot of magical attacks.

145pts could buy me a vampire with dark acolyte and lord of the dead, I think this could be the best use of the pts.

Comments?

Stinkfoot
04-07-2008, 22:34
145pts could buy me a vampire with dark acolyte and lord of the dead, I think this could be the best use of the pts.

Unless you're going to buy him some armor also (to make him a competent fighter) I think you're better off just buying more equipment for you lord. If you bought Acolyte for the lord and a Black Periapt for your BSB you'd have the same number of power dice (all usable with the +1 to IoN) and save 100 points.

Does your Wood Elf opponent play forest spirits? If so then I think you're right and Wraiths are a waste. If he has lots of Elves on the other hand, I think you could still find some use for the Wraiths.

By the way, I've found units of 5-6 wraiths are excessive. 3 wraiths plus a banshee is enough to win over a flank, which it sounds like it how you intend to use them.

tanka
05-07-2008, 08:53
I like wraiths, and my usual opponent uses some forest spirits, plus HODA :(

But at the GT, other vampire, wood elves, deamons are going to be in, making wraiths kind of redundant.

The BSB already has the black periapt.

Ok changes:
Added in 10 skellies for the bunker behind the lines. -80pts
Added dark acoylte on the lord. -30pts
Added 2 skellies to each unit. -32pts

Gharof von Carstein
05-07-2008, 10:18
if you have exactly 145 points to spare you could go for the vamp you had in mind. but why not konrad? oke sure hes flaky. people dont like him. but he pwns face more often than he sucks. trust me. i had a game with a O&G player that lost all 3 of his night goblin units (25 strong) to konrad in a turn each... he wears heavy armor giving him 5+ AS (not stellar but better than nothing) and the stupidity is hardly ever a issue, the frenzy however makes it all worth while. throw him in a unit with the banner that gives flaming attacks and watch your wood elf opponent cry as you burn his tree's to the ground. I dont know if you'll be facing a lot of regenerating opponents, if so the combo becomes even more deadly. the 2 varghulfs I personally feel is a overkill and a waste of the points. 1 varghulf is fun, 2 is a crowd. another thing is because you are unit light and not overpowerfull on the magic you might wanna add more core units or throw in some GG or something. If you dont you'll get in trouble soon as the raising attempts that work will be dispelled, sure you might be able to drop a few through per turn but than you still need to vanhels... which will be scrolled but you get my point. a good idea to add better quality units is to drop the zombies. sure its 20 models for 80 points but id rather see 10 more skeletons for those points. you can raise em over starting size and they wont suck as bad as the zombies. if your opponents will be anything like mine are, they will know about the helm. your vamp lord will be in combat soon rendering that pretty helm useless.

oww and the balefire spike is nice and all but personally since your core consists of mostly skeletons and raising them id go for a tomb blade here. give your vamp avatar of death so he wields dual weapons adding a attack which makes its possible to get 4 free skellies a turn.

just my 10 cents, its not 2 cuz i wrote too much for it to be 2 ;)

tanka
05-07-2008, 12:22
You can't take additional hand weapon and a magic weapon, doesn't add the +1 attack. The BSB is desinged to be an assassin who can also hold units up as well, if he loses by 1 he doesn't even take a wound. He does 4 wounds on a treeman on average, while he does 1.6 wounds or so on a nurgle herald, meaning he can batter the herald(sometimes).

Hmm onto the 1 v 2 vargs point. Well I'm torn, vargs are great against deamons, wood elves and other vampire armies. But they do have some problems against any army with a lot of shooting and magic.
With only 1 varg I'd really be worried about the hitting power of the list, it would only have the 2 knight units, 1 varg and the BSB.
If I was to drop the varg, all I would do is replace it with a unit of knights and I'm not sure if the knights would be the better choice. Hmm.

I will try to stick in the 10pt fire banner on some skellies just in case.

tanka
05-07-2008, 14:00
Ok, thanks for the comments so far, this is the list as it stands at the moment. Had to drop a dog unit to find the pts for more skellies, unsure about that.

Vampire Lord, Helm of Commandment, Dispel Scroll, Book of Arkhan, Master of the Black Arts, Lord of the Dead, Level 3, Dark Acolyte=440pts

Vampire, BSB, Infinite Hatred, Walking Death, Balefire Spike, Flayed Hauberk, Black Periapt, Nightmare=233pts

Necromancer, ION and Vanhels, 2 Power Stones=110pts

20 Skeletons, Standard, Champion, Banner of Hellfire=186pts
16 Skeletons, Standard, Champion=144pts
10 Skeletons=80pts
20 Zombies=80pts
5 Dire Wolves=40pts

6 Black Knights, Barding=168pts
6 Black Knights, Barding=168pts

Vargulf=175pts
Vargulf=175pts

1999pts

Stinkfoot
05-07-2008, 16:53
I think that list looks pretty good - decent combat res, hitting power and magic. I don't think the loss of the puppies is that big of a deal, but then I'm the one who didn't like them to begin with. The only suggestion I would make is to move a champion from the 16 man unit into the skellie bunker. If that unit does get into combat you don't want your necromancer to have to accept challenges, and in any event if he's not deflecting challenges I don't think your champ is going to do much (this is all assuming your BSB will at least occassionally rollin' with your Balefire unit).