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View Full Version : Couple of Catachan questions...



redrum
05-07-2008, 20:08
So, I play fantasy currently. With the new rules for 40K coming out I decided to start an army. I have an old Catachans Codex and I think these guys are pretty cool. I just wanted to make sure it was still officially usable. It's older than the current IG codex so I just wasn't sure if it could still be used.

Also, while we're on the subject how good is an all Catachan force? It seems like it would suffer a bit in anything but jungle terrain. Any feedback would be appreciated.

Bloodknight
05-07-2008, 20:20
There should be a redone (ie made to fit 4th edition) Catachan codex available for download on the GW website.

In my experience (I used to play a Catachan DWV force until I had no opponents left), they are extremely hard to play in terrain that is not jungle because they pay a lot for skills they cannot use there. To make up for it, they are absolutely deadly in jungle terrain. The only time I ever came close to losing with them in a jungle was against Kroot Mercs, who basically do the same thing, but slightly worse.

Lord Damocles
05-07-2008, 20:23
You'd be better off running a standard Guard force with Catachan models IMO. At least that way you're not punished for fighting in anything which isn't a bush.

Weed_Bix
05-07-2008, 20:35
yer catachans are pretty good in terms of fluff and cool rules but it is possible to make a catachan (deathworld) army using the current Imperial Gaurd codex and selecting particular doctrines (i believe jungle fighters is actually one of the doctrines correct me if i'm wrong).
all the best,
cheers,

Culven
07-07-2008, 01:52
Whether a Deathworld Veteran Army is still legal is open for interpretation. Technically, the Catachan Codex PDF is more recent than the IG codex, but it is not an accepted codex for the GTs (which is what some people use to determine "legality"). I have never had any problems with playing my Catachans in fourth edition.

I have never used the doctrined IG list, so I only have experience with the "real" Catachan army. It can be a challenge if there are no woods to be had, but I have still managed to win. The secret seems to be: don't use Booby Traps or Ambush units! They are a waste of points since their abilities cannot be used in most games.

Polonius
07-07-2008, 02:06
SEcond the general answers. It's as legal as your opponents allow, probably not allowed at most tournaments, and it's pretty weak outside of jungle. If you want to give your friends a work out, simply change the words Jungle to City in every rule, and play on a Cities of Death table. Things get really interesting really fast.

In all seriousness, the current IG dex allows for nearly all the cool stuff from the old book in a much more usable form. Use deep striking vets or remnants as "Ambushers", use special weapon teams instead of patrols. Add camelioline to everything, take light infantry and/or Hardened fighters if you want a more "elite" feel.

Chem-Dog
07-07-2008, 02:15
I'd be tempted to settle for using standard IG for the time being, the doctrines can give you the main body of the 'Chan rules without any need for interpretation.
Jungle Fighters
Hardened Fighters
Veterans
Die Hards
Ogryn Squads
This is the list I'd suggest using for DW Vets, some of your more quirky units aren't covered but it's not an impossible to use selection of doctrines.

Unamed Consript
07-07-2008, 03:18
Orrrrr, instead of all that, do what i do:
1)Download the catachan 'dex off gw.
2)Get your oppenents to read it themselves.
3)get the "ok" from them
4)make a regular imperial guard army, leaving some points left over
5)select your favorite deathworld vet units and put them in your regular army
6)Be Happy! cause you got both a ctachan army and a regular one!

btw, it is completely leagal to do this, it says so on the download page

Stormhammers
07-07-2008, 03:26
DW vets are great fun. They are rather hard to use outside of the jungle, kinda like a fish out of water. If you look at their advantages, they need the jungles to make it work. Some ambush units are pretty nice, just maybe a couple 4 man patrol teams, perfect for appearing behind enemy units and catching them in a crossfire.

Culven
07-07-2008, 04:17
5)select your favorite deathworld vet units and put them in your regular army

btw, it is completely legal to do this, it says so on the download page
Um, no it isn't legal. You may wish to reread the PDF rules on using Deathworld units in a standard IG army. Specifically the parts that say it isn't allowed. If you want "jungle fighters" in an IG army, you need to select the Jungle Fighters Doctrine and apply it to your "Jungle Fighters" units. Mixing Deathworld and standard IG has not been permitted since the PDF was posted.

Unamed Consript
07-07-2008, 05:46
no, not on the pdf itself, but in the paragraph with the link to download the pdf file, it says that you may add deathworld vets to any imperial guard force. Like DWV being added to represent imperial forces bolstering a defense or somethin like that

Surgency
07-07-2008, 05:57
they're using that as an example for a friendly game. Technically it's not legal, and it even says so on the PDF

Koryphaus
07-07-2008, 06:07
Who gives a rats **** what the pdf says? Aren't we in this game for fun?

We all agree that they aren't legal in big official GW tournaments (unless stated specifically otherwise), and tricky with pickup games in your FLGS, but if you're having a game with mates, go ahead and do it.

Unamed Consript
07-07-2008, 06:40
yeah, um, hmm. probably should've mention that i dont evan have a games shop within 150 miles from my home. Ive never played in a tornament and only play with my friends (aand a couple **********) so, yeah, ooops.....

Koryphaus
07-07-2008, 06:47
Then you shouldn't have any problems at all. If any of your mates give you stick for it (how appropriate though, being jungle fighters), let them use an unofficial list as well, such as Kroot Merc allies or something. I'm sure that you can work something out.

Surgency
07-07-2008, 07:19
yeah, as long as you're not doing tournament play, it should be fine. Thats why I pointed out the friendly game aspect of it, in my previous post :p We do similar things at my store on a regular basis...

Stormhammers
07-07-2008, 07:29
I'd like to see a battle between DWV vs Kroot Mercs, that would probably be pretty damn fun. If you are just playing friendly games, who cares about "legality" just as long as both parties agree and maybe let them flip though the rules so they know what they are agreeing to.

redrum
07-07-2008, 15:59
Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll have to pick up the IG codex this week and see what I can come up with. Ironically I am really not all that big on the IG in general but I really do like the Catachans. They just seem like a fun army. I'm a little intimitated by a horde army like the IG but honestly not too many of the 40k armies appeal to me.

I really only play against friends and don't really have a lot of interest in tournaments so I don't thinks the "legality" of it would be too much of a problem. I'll have to check with my buddies.

Stormhammers
07-07-2008, 19:43
if you dont like horde IG armies, you can also try an armoured company. They can be fun if done well...some of the best games I ever had were AC v AC. Catachan are pretty cool, I like how they are just a small, elite group that can kick a whole lotta butt

Unamed Consript
07-07-2008, 19:47
Armoured Companies ROCK!

except with 5th ed coming with the rule about attacking the rear armour in cc, which will destroy my Russes and laser destroyers.....

Snorphel
07-07-2008, 20:39
It's interesting to see what 5th edition will do with the jungle fighting rules...

I wonder if true LOS makes area terrain jungles (name an area and fill with a few patches) workable. - I invested quite some time in making 'a lot' of jungle scenery - but it fills only about 1/8 of a table. Also - Catachans can see and fire through 12" instead of the normal 6" of jungle - with true LOS these rules become obsolete.

Then on the other hand, going to the ground will be fun - Catachans that get a nice cover save already will get one that is even better!

Jump troops and skimmers will crash all the time.

MrBigMr
07-07-2008, 20:56
I have a combat patrol size DWV army and they're hard but fun. But if you want to make a main army, I'd suggest using the IG codex as the main list for a "deathworld" army (you can always use the Catachan codex for friendly games), since there's no telling what'll happen when the next codex hits the stores.


I'd use Light Infantry instead of Jungle Fighters. You don't lose lascannon nor armour, but can still move well in terrain and infiltrate. Another one would be Drop Troops, for the single reason that it doesn't mean the guy drop out of the sky, but can also come from underground (Vietkong style tunnel network, anyone?).

Hardened fighters should be reserved for things like tooled up command groups and hardened vets, something that can seriously harm the opponent. Remember, it's +1 WS, so a WS4 commissar and officer become WS5. Maybe sentinels as well for some extra punch (making them good for swamping S3 infantry that can't harm them).

Special Weapons Squad gets you democharges and snipers, though ratling and especially Kroot Hunter allies are far better in sniping. I think Kroots in general are good addition for a more tribal DWV army. Ogryns could also work as a counter-assault force in large squads. WHFB ogres also make good models for a less technological army. Just equip them with Ork shootas or something for their ripper guns. Or you can always find other models. I've been planning to use WHFB Beastmen Gor models as Ogryns. And lets nor forget Rough Riders. Nothing is more future tribal than some alien creature cavalry. If your opponent allows, you can take Xeno Mounts from creature feature on GW's site (loose Fleet, gain 1 S4 attach and +1 to armour save).

redrum
07-07-2008, 21:17
Some very good ideas there MrBigMr, thank you. I'm going to go pick up the IG codex tonight and see what I can figure out.

Snorphel brings up a very good point though, I wonder how the jungle fighting rules will be interpreted in the 5th edition.

Culven
08-07-2008, 06:09
I want to point out that Hardened Fighters (the +1WS) isn't necessarily an offensive Doctrine. I can't tell you the number of times that forcing my opponent to hit on 4+ instead of 3+ has, whilst being a surprise to my opponent, has also helped my units to survive in combat (or at least long enough for my Sentienals and/or Ogryn to charge into the fray).

Stormhammers
08-07-2008, 18:08
yup, the ws 4 is awesome.* That was one of the things that made me like the catachan all those years ago.* I also gave one of my platoons in my cadian army that doctrine (they gained experience during the medusa camp, many assaults, many victories)* I got used to losing lascannons, that just means you have to assault, or use demo charges...figure that a tank would be pretty easy to out maneuver in jungles, you also have melta guns.* Heavy weapons in a catachan army is pretty much a luxury.* I like hvy bolters personally, maybe a ML here and there, but squads of HB hiding out 7" in jungles, pretty much untouchable and they can mow down enemy infatry as they move slowly thought the terrain.

Culven
08-07-2008, 19:28
I disagree that Heavy Weapons are a luxury. Heavy Flamers are a necessity. :evilgrin:

Unamed Consript
08-07-2008, 19:29
but squads of HB hiding out 7" in jungles, pretty much untouchable and they can mow down enemy infatry as they move slowly thought the terrain.

Thats just evil!:evilgrin:

Stormhammers
08-07-2008, 19:37
deliciously evil, even better when they stop to fire wildly at nothing, gives me even more time to mow them down. It can make even the most gracious player at least a little frustrated. Then when the enemy gets close, run back at full speed.

EVIL INC
08-07-2008, 20:51
Ogryns could also work as a counter-assault force in large squads. WHFB ogres also make good models for a less technological army. Just equip them with Ork shootas or something for their ripper guns. Or you can always find other models. I've been planning to use WHFB Beastmen Gor models as Ogryns.
I just got done making a unit of ogryn and, I must say, I was impressed with them. I used the fantasy ogres (The bone head I used a magnet on his left arm. If I use him as a bone head, he is carrying a standard to signify his status and if i use him as a reguler ogryn, use a reguler left arm. The ripper guns, I made using the gaurd autocannon.I cut out the long piece of barrel next to the muzzle and reattached the muzzle onto the gun without it. Then glue the autocannon onto the hand of the ogryn (the "straight arms rather then the bent ones). They look like they are walking forwards and look mean. Glued onto termy bases, the guns will "hang" below the top of the base but there is enough clearance that the model stands flat as they arent so long that the push below the bottom of the base. You will likely have an even number of rightys and leftys but thats ok as the unit looks great overall.

LoneSniperSG
09-07-2008, 05:23
Also AC are not truly supported anymore, but who cares? That's what this thread was about to start with. I'm also (trying) to start one. (Necrons seem to be stealing the attention, but I do have 6 tanks ready to go for an AC)

Helsing
18-08-2008, 23:40
The Catachans are based on WWII vietnam green beret special forces and Austrailian 'diggers'. Their mode of jungle combat is lethal, however jungle fighters are restrictive. With no Mechanized units other than the sentinel, a Catachan force is both more mobile and less deadly. Flamer weapons are fatal in Jungle terrain, with no cover or invulnerable saves. The Jungle Fighters, Light Infantry and Sharpshooters doctrines are invaluable.


Helsing

TheRoadWarrior
18-08-2008, 23:47
going an all Catachan force using the DW Vetsarmy list is going to be tricky. I have played several ames at the local games workshop (Which i can't go to very much because i dont have a car, and i still live with my parents :() ad in every single game i have played there, there was no jungle. Sure, it will be preety cool, but, in my opion not worth it.