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Theadium
28-10-2005, 03:04
I just bought the Battle box and a tyrant for the Ogre Kingdoms, and have played 2 games. I got a minor loss on one and a complete massacre on the other... :cries: Anyway, I want to know what to look for and what to avoid in this game. Thanks!

Scactha
28-10-2005, 07:24
OK is very hard to play. But something that works at at least 2k is a layered deployment. Basically you start with the Tyrant in the middle of a fan-formation with his bodyguard. Then you add a layer of hitty units like 2 regiments of Iron Guts. Next you add an ablative layer of cheap Bulls and last some Leadbelchers for sacrifice.

March straight up and divert and screen with the Bulls and Leadbelchers. Round two or three you open up the formation with a combined charge and if you have enough left you smash through his lines.

Then thereīs stuff like stop you from being marchblocked, marchblocking him with Trappas, which of your units to boost, if you want to have Kinslayer on Tyrant to ease the panictests and hold your screeners in position, etc etc.

But thatīs the geist of it all. And Iīm afraid it isnīt easy to make work as the dumbed down chaos army next door.

Negafex
29-10-2005, 02:02
ive found in my experience that ok live by a very do or die philosophy. make it to their lines or get shot/blasted/blown away first. ive heard you can use leadbelchers to counter it but ive never tried it. one thing you could try if their using war machines and such is to take a goerger and bring him in behind them using his special deployment rule. butchers also sport some of the best magic ive ever seen because it is so easy to cast

Mook
29-10-2005, 11:23
One tip on top of the others.

BIG units. If you manage to get 8 bulls into combat led by your tyrant you've got a fair chance of sweeping everthing away - because anyone defeated by an enemy that a) they fear and b) has a higher unit strength is automatically broken. Nasty, especially if the unit you're attacking is stubborn but not fear-causing or immune (Like WE Eternal Guard led by a noble/highborn). I've been on the receiving end of this, and I've learnt my lesson!

As for getting into combat, Ogres are surprisingly soft when missile fire starts up, and to get around this I'd just take trappers, gorgers and even yhettees if you like. The trappers and gorgers will help your units get to the enemy lines by disrupting / diverting / digesting missile fire and warmachine crews, while the yhettees will run so fast up the flank that the enemy will be forced to commit resources to removing them. All of these units should also mage-hunt where possible - although Gorgers may not turn up in time. It'll be suicidal often, but it all distracts from the real danger:

In the form of two Big units of ogre bulls marching quickly up the battlefield - you may even be able to charge in turn two! And Ogre magic can be great for damaging scouting units or other march interdicters, or boosting your toughness to resist archery.

ps. There is an FAQ somewhere (I am assured by my opponents) that states that Butchers only suffer hits from spells that actually go off - ie. not dispelled or failed ones. We were playing the reverse for a while, and it made butchers rubbish!

Good luck though, OK are not easy. Try playing against them too - suggest to your opponent that you reverse armies and batter each other again to see who's really the best general (etc. etc.).

Cpt. Drill
29-10-2005, 13:07
Get a butcher... simple enough....

Theadium
01-11-2005, 23:41
Thanks guys! I will take that all into consideration

Wintersdark
02-11-2005, 03:12
heh I'll argue the other way... Lots of little units.

OK are *extremely* good at the MSU game - they break ranks, move very quickly (mv6!), hit very hard, and can take a few wounds without any ill effects.

Individually, the units are not worth many victory points, making them more expendable.

You don't have a single massively expensive unit that can be either ganged up on or simply diverted/distracted and rendered useless. Nearly every army list has an option for the experienced player to use to "negate" on enemy unit throughout the game.

Keller
02-11-2005, 03:30
I'm gonna have to agree with Wintersdark on this one. My units of 3 Bulls w/ clubs, musician and champ have always done better than my units of 8 w/ armor, Ironfists, and command. The only reason to have large units is to try to get the outnumber to use your fear more effectively, but it isn't worth it in the end. I now run units of 3 bulls and 4-5 Ironguts. 6 is the largest unit I use, typically with 4+2, with the extra models just to soak up casualties.

Dont overlook Hunters. They may look crappy, but they have always worked well for me. They are horribly overpriced if you just want to use it as a boltthrower, but as a combat unit, with the 2 Tusks, you get a great unit with good Ld and attacks; the bolt-thrower is just an added bonus in my book, used only for targets of oppertunity, such as monsters who need a scare. I believe I am in the minority, but I always try to have a hunter in a decent sized game.

Spoonie
02-11-2005, 07:17
I've taken a fancy to the ogres lately, and I think going with a more MSU-style approach is very intruiging. Looking at the battle box, It coincidentally lines up almost exactly with my planned list that I made off the top of my head. Throw in a gorger and a bruiser and that's about my 1k list.

Anyways, touching on the MSU / Big unit subject, I usually like to have at least one unit that the opponent would rather avoid, in any army. Fortunatly for ogres, even with just the boxed set you can accomplish this with just the four ironguts with your bruiser attached. Making your opponent scared of a unit can play to your advantage, aswell. You can use this unit to either force him to where you want him, or risk having said scary unit crash into him, with a little planning you can force him into a lose/lose situation, especially when you have better movement.

As for more advice, which armies did you lose to, and what did you have the hardest time with? It might be as simple as trying to use your gnoblars as a screen against a heavy missle opponent, but it's really on a case-by-case basis.

Avian
02-11-2005, 09:27
As for more advice, which armies did you lose to, and what did you have the hardest time with?
I have lost four times, two times to missile heavy armies when I screwed up my deployment ("I think I will stand here in the open, so you can shoot me!") and two times using the Lustria rules against armies that gained far too much of an advantage for being able to skirmish ("Is that two units of skirmishing slayers I see? What fun!").



It might be as simple as trying to use your gnoblars as a screen against a heavy missle opponent, but it's really on a case-by-case basis.
Doesn't work. Use a cheap ogre bull screen instead.

Spoonie
02-11-2005, 21:54
What doesn't work about gnoblar screens, exactly? For the price of an ogre you can get a nice 10x2 screening unit that only slows you up a turn. Seems worth it to me, just have to be good at moving them out of the way at the right time. I could, however be totally missing something.

DrCone
03-11-2005, 17:51
Well, I have played a few games with my ogres, and I find gnoblars to be a unit with lots of possibilities. I play quite much MSU, and my idea is to make 3 naked bulls, 3 iron guts, and 20 gnoblars make up a combat squad. In a 2000p battle I field three such squads, and rightly played, few things can beat that combination in combat.

The main uses of gnoblars as I see it is:

1. Against gunlines you can use the green line tactics, and slowly move forward until you reach the gunline, or until a gorger or two turns up.

2. Against ranked up armies, you get go from -3 to +1 in combat resolution for the cost of one ogre. Well worth it.

3. Against T5 large targets, their sharp stuff is a real threat. 40 attacks, hitting on 4+, wounding on 6’s. Hehe, watch that general cry as the monster drops dead.

The only drawback is the pain it takes to paint all the models.

Good luck

Spoonie
04-11-2005, 02:12
Yeah I was thinking it might be nice to do ogres because of the few models to paint, but then I realized I'd probably want some gnobbos. After further consideration, they probably won't be that bad. Sure there's alot of them, but they're super scrawny, giving them even less area to paint than goblins. A few quick highlights and they should look fine, doesn't seem to bad.

Theadium
07-11-2005, 02:56
I played a missile heavy Dark Elf army. I got screwed! 16 repeater crossbowman, 2 reapers, 1 manticore, 16 spearmen, 1 sorcerer, 5 coldones. Ouch!

Anyway for me to negate this type of army?

Negafex
07-11-2005, 13:31
if u have a gorger come in behind the big shooties he can usually take em down pretty fast. aside from that id say use a lot of cover and take advantage of your speed, the ogres are realatively fast. mastodon armor also helps but it costs a ton. getting a slavegiant might help draw fire

Lord_Byron
07-11-2005, 18:05
I can describe why gnoblars make a poor screening unit in one simple word. "Bicker". Moving at the gnoblars pace is frustrating to begin with, but when they bicker and hold up your whole line... it's no good. Definitely screen with naked bulls.

Theadium
08-11-2005, 03:39
I can describe why gnoblars make a poor screening unit in one simple word. "Bicker". Moving at the gnoblars pace is frustrating to begin with, but when they bicker and hold up your whole line... it's no good. Definitely screen with naked bulls.
HA! I had a game where my gnoblars bickered for the first 3 turns of the game, and got charged in the flank by calvary. It screwed my army over, as even though I threw stones at them, they just ripped my lines apart... :cries:

Avian
08-11-2005, 10:51
What doesn't work about gnoblar screens, exactly? For the price of an ogre you can get a nice 10x2 screening unit that only slows you up a turn. Seems worth it to me, just have to be good at moving them out of the way at the right time. I could, however be totally missing something.
1. A gnoblar screen marches forward at 4" less than ogres do
2. They only do that if they don't bicker, which you have no way of canceling
3. There isn't really a lot of good ways of getting the gnobbos out of the way when you get there.

I'd rather have a more expensive unit that does the job, than a cheap unit that doesn't.

Tastyfish
08-11-2005, 20:02
Definitely screen with naked bulls.
Seriously, what would be scarier than this?;)

blue midgets of doom
09-11-2005, 00:11
absolutly nothing. their fear ability would be boosted to terror.

Spoonie
09-11-2005, 00:22
Different strokes, I guess. I'd rather my ogres get there intact than 1-2 turns earlier, even if one flank does get bogged down by bickering gnobs.

Wintersdark
09-11-2005, 01:13
Even if they don't bicker, you're still bogged down. Ogres are a very fast army overall - the fastest(though a little less maneuverable than the skirmishing WE and BoC), barring cav armies.

Why slow your ogres so much, and have to deal with blocks of Gnoblars that get in the way? Bah. To each there own, though. Whatever works for ya.