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Manflayer
07-07-2008, 13:40
Howdy all

As I was flicking through the Brettonian book I was looking at one particular Virtue and how to make it pull its weight. Virtue in question is Virtue of penitent, which quite frankly put nicely is rubbish. But then I had an idea on how it could actually be of good use, let me explain how this virtue could be used to good advantage.

Ok so you take your average Paladin, you give him Virtue of the penitent, shield and the Grail vow (lance is optional but want to keep the points cost to a minium) oh and a trusty steed. This makes him come too 137 points, now for simplicity reasons we are going to assume we are fighting Vampire Counts. In my eyes the way to beat VC is to isolate their main blocks of infantry and combined charge them and deal with them that way. But this can be made hard with the amount of magic a VC player has and if done well he will notice his units being isolated and he will step up his game to stop this from happening... this is where the paladin comes in.

Say there is a 20 unit of skeletons that is threatning to come on a flank of a Brettonian charge on another 20 skeletons, this would overwhelm the knights and most likely flee, so you send in the Paladin who will hold up the 20 skeletons who are going to charge next turn. Now they have very very little chance of hurting him and with his Virtue making him stubborn doesnt matter what combat resolution he gets beaten by hes stubborn! and if he was made to flee automatically due to outnumbered by fear causing enemy well... he has the grail vow to stop that. He can still fail his leadership test on a 8, but with a BSB near by that becomes a significantly more of a problem for your opponent.

You are effectively holding his block of infantry up which he needs to commit to the fight and if there is a Necromancer or vampire in the unit, all the more better! challenge them and kill them slowly. This can work versus other armies like Ogre Kingdoms, take for example a threatning charge from a unit of Bulls into exposed knight flank will cause knights alot of pain, well you send in the Paladin to hold this unit up long enough for him to get help once the rest of the army has been dealt with. This is situational and I must stress I havent actually tryed it so could be a horrible idea, but what I want to know if what people think about it? does this theory have any hope of living it out in a proper game? or has anyone actually tryed it?

Hope to get constructive comments and hope this Virtue might finally see a use!

The_Dragon_Rising
07-07-2008, 14:09
The problem is, granted its unlikely with zombies, etc but with only 2 wounds, 2+ save 5/6++ ward, he isnt exactly invinvible and many units will just kill him, stubborn or not.

On top of this for 135pts you have a better paladin which is to say one with grail vow(enabling grail reliquae in my army), horse, virtue of discipline, warbanner for +2 CR and negating outnumber.

Grey Seer Skretch
07-07-2008, 14:23
Its not a bad thought, but you can do the same thing with Grail Pilgrims, getting yourself a decent sized unit for only about 100 point more, which will not only be more general use, but can keep spooling out heaps of attacks each turn regardless of how much hurt it takes thanks to the relic's survivability and atacks...

Lord Dan
07-07-2008, 16:00
Doesn't the rule for "autobreaking" due to being outnumbered by a fear-causing unit override the rule for stubborn anyway?

DarthBinky
07-07-2008, 16:19
Grail Vow makes him immune to psychology.

Manflayer
07-07-2008, 16:30
[QUOTE=The_Dragon_Rising;2759460]The problem is, granted its unlikely with zombies, etc but with only 2 wounds, 2+ save 5/6++ ward, he isnt exactly invinvible and many units will just kill him, stubborn or not.

Well thats where careful use of him is essential, if he does hold up a large block of units its got to be something thats got low chance to hurt him but also will be a pain to your knights if they get bogged down by this unit. Obviously he has limited use but I dont know, I see potential and I also see failure if not used correctly. Ultimately I will probably try him out and see how he fits in.

Also note on the Grail reliquae, they are far better for the job I agree with but their movement is what lacks and if there is a enemy unit that needs to be held down asap then they might not always get there in on time. Otherwise good comments, what I like to see! and ideally it would be good to hear from someone who has possibly played with the idea in a few games.

Grey Seer Skretch
08-07-2008, 07:35
2 questions.

1.) Does the vow make just him stubborn, or does it apply to a unit he leads too?
2.) Can he take this AND the vow of standing with the peasents?

Coz, y'kno, I'm thinking 30-odd stubborn Ld 8 men at arms would be a BADASS tarpit... 3 ranks, outnumber in many cases, standard, and a Paladin actually handing out some hurt to the front as well. That'd be brutal...

kroq'gar
08-07-2008, 07:51
Dont forget... the BSB can be this guy.

You charge 16 inches at something, pin it, and your knights all benefit from him.


edit @ grey seer.

"a perfect plan with only two minor setbacks

1) The virtue makes him stubborn, but he cannot join a unit.
2) you cannot take two virtues"

Hakkapelli
08-07-2008, 07:53
Only one problem with that idea. Virtue of the Pentient states that a character with that virtue may not join units or ride a pegasus or a hippogryph.

'edit' damn, beaten to it

Grey Seer Skretch
08-07-2008, 09:51
well...knackers then! lol! :D I do think that the one man tar pit could be rather risky though...single cannon-ball of 2D6 S4 magic missile will spell doom for 150-odd points of tarpit...