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View Full Version : Is a Dragon in a 2000 pts army overdoing it?



Astraeos
09-07-2008, 17:14
Currently I'm working on my Dark Elf army in anticipation of the new book coming out soon.
Although I already have loads to paint (been collecting them for a while but never painted them) I do need a general. Currently I have a High elf hero on foot I'm considering converting slightly (the guy with the axe and shield, nice model) but the one thing I've always wanted in a Warhammer army is a character riding a large monster, preferably a dragon.

I plan to use some harpies as an escort/living shield to get in the way of anything approaching the dragon I don't want attacking it.

I know it's possible to fit a dragon into a 2000 points list, but I do have some concerns over it being cheesy/beardy/power gaming (whatever term you use!).
Any insight on this concern?

blurred
09-07-2008, 17:41
Dragons and other BFMs are very good for their points, but I wouldn't call them cheesy etc. My Empire army with two cannons is more than happy to face them and my greenskin army has enough troops to usually keep those monster busy.

If you like the model and the idea of a huge, terrifying dragon, go for it. :)

blackjack
09-07-2008, 18:23
A dragon at 2k is not considered OTT by most. I certianly don't think it is.

Emeraldw
09-07-2008, 18:23
Depends on the army really. Some armies like the Above's empire can more than easily squash the bloated lizard with a ball of lead. Other armies, like tomb kings, wood elves or others with no warmachines, have to rely on massed firepower from bows or magic.

Also what you outfit the rider with can make it seem like your "overdoing it." A lot of people hate a HE Dragon with a Lord using the Star Lance. That just seems mean to me sometimes.

The real trick, is what do you kill? Often times the rider is easier to kill but when it is a HE lord with a rerollable armor save and a 4+ ward, it gets harder. I've actually had better luck killing the dragon sometimes.

szlachcic
09-07-2008, 18:24
I wouldn't consider it cheesy, just be prepared to not have many points to spend on other things. It should be fun to use and is no where as bad as the dual dragon HE lists you hear about at all the tournaments.



Also what you outfit the rider with can make it seem like your "overdoing it." A lot of people hate a HE Dragon with a Lord using the Star Lance. That just seems mean to me sometimes.


I don't think this build is OTT by itself (if not a little predictable), but when paired with a Fire Mage on a Dragon the cheese factor goes up exponentially.


The real trick, is what do you kill? Often times the rider is easier to kill but when it is a HE lord with a rerollable armor save and a 4+ ward, it gets harder. I've actually had better luck killing the dragon sometimes.

I don't think a DE lord will be any easier considering in the new book you can take heavy armor w/ regeneration and an inverse ward save (gets better the higher the strength), or blood armor and the inverse ward save.

Astraeos
09-07-2008, 19:27
There'll be heavy armour with regeneration? That'll be great for a T3 Elf lord!

I'm pleased that so far no one thinks it'll be a bad thing. One guy I spoke to IRL a while back thought it could be so I thought that may be the general idea.

I did plan to equip him with the Venom sword (along with shield and heavy armour) but isn't that now a Temple of Khaine thing?

I might use Malekith's dragon, or Prince Imrik (available in the HE clasics on the online store last I checked). Or might buy Malekith and assemble the plastic dragon he's riding and leave off the metal bits. I love the classic GW dragon design. The HE one is nice but sometimes you can't beat the classics.

Emeraldw
09-07-2008, 20:26
There'll be heavy armour with regeneration? That'll be great for a T3 Elf lord!

I'm pleased that so far no one thinks it'll be a bad thing. One guy I spoke to IRL a while back thought it could be so I thought that may be the general idea.

I did plan to equip him with the Venom sword (along with shield and heavy armour) but isn't that now a Temple of Khaine thing?

I might use Malekith's dragon, or Prince Imrik (available in the HE clasics on the online store last I checked). Or might buy Malekith and assemble the plastic dragon he's riding and leave off the metal bits. I love the classic GW dragon design. The HE one is nice but sometimes you can't beat the classics.

I adore the new HE one. Easy to assemble, easy to stay together and looks more impressive. That's me however but I recommend it over the old one largely for ability to store (you can remove the wings in the new one easy for example) not to mention it's plastic. The old one you HAVE to pin pretty much.

szlachcic
09-07-2008, 20:40
There'll be heavy armour with regeneration? That'll be great for a T3 Elf lord!

I'm pleased that so far no one thinks it'll be a bad thing. One guy I spoke to IRL a while back thought it could be so I thought that may be the general idea.

I did plan to equip him with the Venom sword (along with shield and heavy armour) but isn't that now a Temple of Khaine thing?

I might use Malekith's dragon, or Prince Imrik (available in the HE clasics on the online store last I checked). Or might buy Malekith and assemble the plastic dragon he's riding and leave off the metal bits. I love the classic GW dragon design. The HE one is nice but sometimes you can't beat the classics.

If I was using a Dread Lord on a Dragon I would probably use the High Elf Dragon and convert the Lord himself using pieces from the HE Dragon kit and the new Cold One Knights.

IIRC the Venom Sword is now a Temple of Khaine item so you will not have access to it. There are a couple of really good magic weapons though. I would be tempted to get Caledors Bane which is +3 strength on the charge and ignores scaly skin saves so it would be great to counter other player's dragons or other big monsters. I wouldn't worry too much about getting more attacks as now we will have hatred, including the dragon, so you will be landing hits a lot more.

Astraeos
09-07-2008, 20:46
I just prefer the old style dragons, but the HE one is nice.

Here's an article about modelling the HE dragon to be from armies besides HE
http://uk.games-workshop.com/highelves/dragons/1/

It's not so much the number of attacks, more of a matter of killing things before they kill my Highborn.

szlachcic
09-07-2008, 21:25
I just prefer the old style dragons, but the HE one is nice.

Here's an article about modelling the HE dragon to be from armies besides HE
http://uk.games-workshop.com/highelves/dragons/1/

It's not so much the number of attacks, more of a matter of killing things before they kill my Highborn.

I think I confused the Hydra Blade and the Venom Sword. I wouldn't worry too much of killing things before they kill you as you will almost always be the one charging or have the higher initiative. The only time you have to worry is against ASF which is why I would recommend giving him a good ward and armor.

El Haroldo
10-07-2008, 00:09
If I was using a Dread Lord on a Dragon I would probably use the High Elf Dragon and convert the Lord himself using pieces from the HE Dragon kit and the new Cold One Knights.

My plans exactly. I'm looking at the old Rakarth Dragon, and I find the head to look a bit more imposing than that of Malekith's dragon, not to mention the rider looks vastly superior to old leatherface.

Frankly
10-07-2008, 10:20
...I've always wanted in a Warhammer army is a character riding a large monster, preferably a dragon ...

Then go for it!

Its pretty cool having a dragon in the list, a nice bashy unit.

Will he do well? It depends on what armylist you come up against, he'll struggle against a gunline, but dominate against a MSU type list.

Dragons are played alot in my neck of ths woods, mainly because they look so good.

Its awesome when you see 2 players squaring off with dragons on either side.

Brother Drakist
10-07-2008, 16:13
If you can take it in a 2000 point list it's legit. Though taking 2 will get you some unwelcome looks. If anyone complains it's nonsense. A well balanced force can handle a dragon.

Astraeos
10-07-2008, 19:44
Well I'm definitely gonna look into that regeneration armour once the book comes out. Unfortunately I don't have the money for the spearhead so I'm gonna have to wait.

Malekith's dragon, as far as I know, is plastic with metal parts added. Without the metal extras the plastic dragon (the old one) looks like this-
http://uk.games-workshop.com/dogsofwar/miniature-gallery/15/

Unfortunately Asarnil can no longer be bought. But if I buy Malekith and the mounted Dreadlord on Cold One (good model), I can swap the riders around as I hear Malekith can now ride a cold one. I'll assemble the dragon minus the metal parts and put Malekith on the cold one.

That way I can have my dragon riding dreadlord and the option of adding some formidable force to a unit of CoK!

Godswildcard
10-07-2008, 19:51
If the dragon's name is Trogdor, the list becomes much, much cheesier....

Nay, unbeatable

bork da basher
10-07-2008, 20:01
if someone ones to bring a dragon to the table when im playing dwarfs with 2 bolt throwers, a cannon and a organ gun he's more than welcome to....

if im playing my skaven army then he's being cheezey ;)

Mozzamanx
10-07-2008, 20:18
Meh, I've played one at 750pts, and that was pretty fun.

Chadjabdoul
10-07-2008, 21:47
yes, i think it is

Frankly
10-07-2008, 23:02
Meh, I've played one at 750pts, and that was pretty fun.


What, a dragon?

Dragon Prince of Caledor
11-07-2008, 00:07
Just hope you dont meet a star dragon! Muahahaha! I read the rulebook today! The dark elves look cool but i didnt see anything about striking first on the charge....

Mozzamanx
11-07-2008, 10:59
What, a dragon?

Yup, High Elf Dragon Mage. It was a 750pts game against my Tomb Kings, and I actually enjoyed it. My Tomb Prince duelled them and killed the rider, just before getting eaten. The Dragon went crazy and just sat there, so I started killing the rest of his army.

I thought it was good, it's nice to have a super unit every once in a while to mix things up.

The Red Scourge
14-07-2008, 07:50
A dragon lord can be fun once in a while – theres just no end to the havoc he can cause.

But he can be a bit too much and feel a bit like "an easy way out". I've run an old Tzeentch lord on chaos dragon a few times, and 808 points placed in a super tough and super mobile unit makes for a lot of point denial – and I've actually felt a little bored using him.

But try it out. You just might like it...

Astraeos
14-07-2008, 12:54
A Dragon in 750 points sounds crazy, but fun.

I don't get to play very often (can't even remember exactly when my last game was) so I doubt I'll get bored of the dragon lord soon.

The Red Scourge
15-07-2008, 04:27
Just hope you dont meet a star dragon! Muahahaha! I read the rulebook today! The dark elves look cool but i didnt see anything about striking first on the charge....

Well.. The star dragon doesn't have ASF, does it?

And lets be honest, the guy on top of it can't do much, when he's not on the charge :p