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View Full Version : Dwarfs and Empire: How do they play?



Mr.terminatorbob
10-07-2008, 14:01
Hello Warseer, I plan to start Fantasy soon (as in, once I get my paycheck.).

And I thought I was going to start playing Empire, I even had a small 500 point list made up in my head. I like the Empire's fluff, men beset on all sides by evil armies, every day is a fight for survivial, and I really like the Pistoliers and Warrior Preist's models, along with the detachments and versitillity of the whole army.

however, I've always liked the dwarfs, I like their models, and their background and personialty really appeals to me. I love the fact that even though their a crumbling Empire, their not going to go away, their honur and courage, the concepts of Oath, and their ranged firepower.

However, all the stuff that I like about the Dwarfs wont matter much to me if I find out that their a static army, after spending money on a new army, and find out I dont like their play style at all.

So, I decided to come to warseer and ask my question.

How's the playstlye of Dwarf and Empire armies different and similar?

Heres what I understand so far about their play styles.

Dwarfs;
-they are great at taking charges
- they have a powerful assortment of weapons and warmachines
- their a 'passive' armie, waiting for the enemey to come to them.
- Their SLOW. Meaning that usually they get charged instead of the enemey.

Empire:
- they have the average statline and leadership
-the use detachments
- they have a wide choice of infantry weapons
- they are "the jack of all trades, master of nothing"

Godswildcard
10-07-2008, 14:09
Close, but just a little off target. Dwarfs are a little more aggressive than most would give them credit for. Yes, they are slow, but if you deploy correctly (and it really is all about deployment for them) you have a darn good shot at getting a counter-charge off with Ironbreakers, hammerers, or anything else that is equally nasty. However, you need to learn to play with their short little legs. Well worth the effort once you get it done though.
Empire-Detachments ROCK. Love a 20-strong unit of halberdiers or spearmen with a detachment of handgunners. That is just fun. Also, taking Knights as a core choice is schaweet. I used to run a knight army to great success. Also, they have the great cannon and the volley gun, not to mention the mortar. Knights backed up by spearmen w/ handgunners backed up by cannons, mortars and volley guns is just fun to watch.

Dragon Prince of Caledor
11-07-2008, 00:17
dwarfs with helicopters and miners and an anvil of doom! Lets move!;)

Napoleon Blownapart
11-07-2008, 02:09
Empire lets you choose how to fight your battles. Dwarves can be forced to play certain ways much more then empire, but of course I'd say dwarves are much more forgiving, with their high toughness and things like "set in stone". Not to say Dwarves are an easy army, but I would say empire is the list that can fulfill any situation --after your army list is done--, you just have to plan it carefully, and find good leadership.

Caiphas Cain
11-07-2008, 02:23
Dwarfs are good because even thought the enemeys will get the charge on them, they will not die because they do have a T5. Also there high WS is nothing to sneeze at.

soots
11-07-2008, 02:30
You pretty much summed it up. And speed is SOOO important, you will often be helpless as your opponent can deploy their battle plan while all you can do is wait for a mistake.

kroq'gar
11-07-2008, 06:33
Dwarves often receive the charge..... and hold.

Empire often receive the charge, flee, countercharge, lose, win flee- they have the ability to get near orc and goblin numbers of soldiers.

Gaius Marius
11-07-2008, 16:32
Empire is a more flexible force, tactically, than the Dwarves, even or specially after you have chosen your list. A Balanced empire force should be able to cross the table to engage the enemy, or wait to couter-charge and/or receive a charge after shooting the enemy up first. The dwarf army does not have the same ability as the Empire, to as a previous poster indicated "let you choose how to fight your battles".

Dwarfs are tough, and fun to play with and against, but in terms of flexible play the Empire is the way to go. Cheers ~ Gaius Marius

sideorder_of_chips
13-07-2008, 19:40
You don't give the empire enough credit for all of there wacky inventions. Mind you the dwarf inventions are better :( (organ gun>hellstorm normally). However as far as infantry go, they are pretty mediocre.

Mr.terminatorbob
13-07-2008, 19:50
well, I played a "Learn to play" game with Dwarfs at my local GW shop against the wood efls. I'm impressed with their abilty to take charge's, as well as their guns and T4, along with most of their troops having armour. however, I do NOT like how their a slow army. a 6 inch march move isnt that good in my opinion. I also didnt like how the Manager their was able to usually pick the charges. But I still liked the fact that I caused two units to run off, even though my Dwarfs suffered more deaths in combat.

more study into the armybooks will be important.

sideorder_of_chips
13-07-2008, 20:01
That sounds like a very unfair game.
Wood elves - one of the swiftest moving and sneaky armies in the game
Dwarfs - Whats this movement thing you talk about?

When it gets to combat with the dwarfs it usually develops into trench warfare with them normaly coming out on top because they are 'arder than the enemy.

With empire they hold on just long enough to get liberated by another unit charging the enemy's flank. They are quite as 'ard as dwarfs...

Mr.terminatorbob
13-07-2008, 21:40
eh, it didnt seem that unfair to me. He only had one bow in the entire group. The rest was Tree kin.

Crovax20
16-07-2008, 21:35
Well at my GW the manager told me that Dwarves are more forgiving for new players... probably because they are a bit passive, and their general toughness in combat.

My first battle was gobbo's vs dwarves (battle for skull pass). Was pretty cool, but damn my gobbo's couldn't beat those dwarves down. Later on I tried a unit of 20 gobbo's vs the dwarf warriors that come with battle for skull pass... eventually it was down to the goblin champion vs the dwarf champion (goblins got rather lucky with some roles) dwarf won in the end.

Oh and if I remember correctly dwarfs can march even if they are within 8 inch of an enemy, which sounds like a good thing!

FigureFour
17-07-2008, 18:32
It's still not a really good matchup for guageing the speed of the Dwarves.
Wood Elves are the masters of dictating the flow of the battle (I play Wood Elves, and have run rings around Dwarves before) and Dwarves tend towards more static play.

If you want to try to take the fight to your opponent and get the charge you might want to try a Dwarf infantry horde list using the strollaz rune and the anvil. They can be suprisingly fast and mobile with the strollaz move at the beginning of the game, the anvil moving units and their ability to march even within 8" of the enemy.

Combine that with some clever charge baiting and getting units stuck in with your tougher units and you'll find yourself outmanuvering and countercharging all over the place.

OldMaster
17-07-2008, 19:01
Dwarfs play with gunlines and Thorek. Empire plays with Steam Tanks and Ghal Maraz :\

Napoleon Blownapart
17-07-2008, 19:23
Steam tanks? Gunlines? Never; or rather, only if they are lame.
It's all about the infantry people.

Kidjal
17-07-2008, 22:10
I love my empire lads. As already said, very adaptable to a change in play. Have the potential to be very agressive wither with mass shootying or devestating charges supported by well ranked infantry with some nice LD bonus rules thrown in (griffon standard kicks ass)

I play wood elves now aswel and the difference in play is staggering for me to be able to move and fire etc. Manouvering that dictates the game through and through.

Lordmonkey and I played a game between Welves and Dwarfs yesterday at our club (I use asrai theme,) and it went pretty much as described above. Dwarfs just couldnt react quickly enough to changes in movement, and individual units were left alone to be picked off as a result.

Stronginthearm
29-07-2008, 21:14
Empire seems ok but im sticking to my dwarves even if they get stomped by 20 man squads of spider riders coming from behind