View Full Version : Equipping Wave Serpents in 5th Edition

10-07-2008, 16:50
Wave Serpents are more attractive with the changes to vehicles in 5th edition mainly the unified damage table and changes to glances and the str 4 defensive weapons, Falcons are not as attractive as they were in 4th. Falcons are still tougher then Wave Serpents but not so much so like they were in 4th.

Besides the heavy support slots probably will be taken by 2-3 Fire Prisms for their large template against hordes as well as anti tank capability or Dark Reapers for the anti MEQ and maybe even Warwalkers now that they can come on from the flank.

So what is the best way to equip a Wave Serpent in 5th?

In 4th the config I used where twin linked Scatter Laser, Underslung Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones, Vectired Engines

Spirit Stones are still a no brainer can't be stunned and not able to move to deliver your troops.

Vectored Engines seem to be not worth it with the 5th changes.

As far as weapons the under slung shuriken cannon seems not worth it at first glance since you can't fire it as well as your main gun unless your main gun is a eldar missle launcher shooting a plasma missle at str 4. However if you get hit and lose your primary weapon the underslung shuriken cannon is a decent back up weapon instead of the catapults which are pretty terrible. But is it worth the 10 points? Often your Wave Serpent will be shaken and can not shoot as well.

Twin linked Scatter Laser seems good as it used to be. good number of shots at str 6 not to expensive.

Twin linked shuriken cannon loses a shot but is slightly cheaper looks decent if you want to pinch shots.

Twin linked missle launcher seems like it is a winner with the ability to shoot str 8 shots at tanks and str 4 templates at infantry and you can fire an underslung shuriken cannon along with the str 4 template. Have to see how bad the scatter is with 2d6-3 and a reroll for twin linked for the template though. The str 8 missle is not all that effective against av13 or 14 though with glancing -2.

Bright Lance as always seems expensive but a decent option given av 13 and av14 become harder to kill with the glancing -2 to damage.

I'm thinking maybe try twin linked missle launchers with a underslung shuriken cannon and spirit stones for 5th edition wave serpent load out. about the same cost as my old load out too.

Vandur Last
10-07-2008, 17:55
5th edition really put the hurt on my army and its signature "unreasonable amount of S6 shots" since those underslung Shuriken Cannons arent defensive weapons anymore. ill be dropping those underslung's from all my Grav Tanks now.

With this in mind im thinking of upgrading my Wave Serpent's from twin linked Shuriken Cannons to twin linked EML's. As i understand it a twin linked blast template scatters as normal but gets to re-roll failed "to-wound" rolls. This may not work as well as my previous reliance on torrents of Shuriken weaponry but im gonna give it a go.

10-07-2008, 18:15
Actually, a twin-linked Blast allows you to re-roll the Scatter Roll. Note that you have to reroll the Scatter Die AND the 2d6 distance.

It's twin linked Template weapons (flamers) that re-roll to wound.

And for my Waveserpents, I'm going to be sticking with twin Scatter Lasers and Spirit Stones. I'm just losing the chin Shuri-cannon. My armies run heavy on Dragons, Wraithguard, Wraithlords, or Fire Prisms, so I'm not worried about the anti-tank.

The big thing that's going to change is that I'll drop from an average of 5 Wave Serpents to 3. The ability to transport non-dedicated units means that I can tailor their cargo to what enemy I'm facing. The extra points will go towards more squads.

10-07-2008, 18:29
The first time out in 5th I am going with EML with the underslung shuriken cannon. I can move and shoot it all, and my transports can be reserve anti tank in case I lose the Fire prisms in the list.

The Prisms kept their cannons. I figure I'll try to park them in cover and sit still to see how they do.

10-07-2008, 19:30
I always ran my wave serpents at their baseline cost with no upgrades. I could maybe see putting on vectored engines now for stuff where I want to crash assault aspects directly into the enemy line (turbo boost 24" turn 1, assault turn 2 hopefully). The only problem with doing so is the problem the wave serpent has always had - the single, easily blocked access hatch. All your enemy has to do is move a unit in the way of the door (a simple feat now with run) and they get to ignore it for a turn and focus on the rest of your army.

Elios Harg
10-07-2008, 21:02
Personally, I don't see any problem with the underslung Shuriken cannon, you can still move 6" and fire and without the SMF rule the only time you'll be moving more than 6" is when you really need to do so. If you're delivering troops, then you're probably going to be moving flat out anyway to get the cover save so won't be able to shoot anything.

11-07-2008, 00:24
Mine will be going, ideally if I have the points:

SHuriken cannon main weapons, no catapult upgrade, vectored engines, spirit stones.

This load out means that the serpent does what it needs to do for limited points. The serpent is a transport not a gunship, it should zoom across the board 24" giving 4+ save and fortune rerollable. Further if you move that far in a turn I think you do need to have vectored as otherwise its lots more hurt for passengers.

11-07-2008, 02:27
What about starcannons?

11-07-2008, 02:29
I'm still sticking to Bright Lances for my Fire Dragons, Scatterlasers for my Dire Avengers. Dedicated waves of anti-infantry or anti-armour always appealed to me.

11-07-2008, 02:36
Due to cover issues, I will most likely keep scatterlasers as the main armament.

shurican cannon dropped.

Battle-Brother Wags
11-07-2008, 04:18
While reading this thread, an idea just occured to me. I'm not pretending it is incredibly profound, but what if you take your waveserpents as dedicated gunships? Take them with a unit that you plan on footslogging and kit it out as a gunship? Spirit Stones, TL Scatter Lasers and Underslung Cannons. Since there isn't alot of AP there anyway, move it 6" or less as needed but staying more or less behind terrain for the defensive cover save, but you're still pouring out tons of shots. Not only that, but now instead of one target, the transport with the unit inside, the enemy has two threats he has to deal with. Also, I have heard people talk as if ANYTHING can contest and objective, even a dedicated transport . . . so benefits all around! What do you guys think of that idea?

11-07-2008, 05:27
Star Engines are the best thing ever now, I enjoy the capability to Ram my enemies vehicles first turn.

11-07-2008, 08:32
I Always ran a stones, shuricannon, TL-EML config for all my WS's and looks like I won't be changing a thing. ;)

Why no BL you ask... well because it's a giant point difference and the EML gives pinning. It's never a good idea to place 'critical' weapons on transports, since this centralizes your weakness (of losing AND a transport AND your anti-tank weapon).

11-07-2008, 08:42
In 5th i am running TL Shuricannons, Star Engines, Vectored Engines and Spirit Stones.(and fortuned while holding passengers)

Granted its not cheap but when it is holding 6 Warlocks, Eldrad and Yriel...id rather not lose it.

11-07-2008, 08:54
yea, but another school of thought is if your going to give the transport a weapon and have no other way of dealing with heavies/tanks might as well take the one that can get the job done being you have to take a weapon anyway

missile launcher beats Bright Lance almost all situations in my book but im split on the Scatter Laser/Shruiken Cannon/StarCannon cause each has its unique benefits

11-07-2008, 09:34
In 4th ed my config was TL Scatter Lasers, SS, VE's.
In 5th ed my config will be the same, perhaps adding Star Engines.

I'm just going to concentrate on getting their cargo to where I need them as fast as possible and then after that, harass the enemy.

11-07-2008, 09:48
I'm sticking with EML/SS/SE/VE for my Wraithguard delivery system.

11-07-2008, 10:57
My main build was EML and SS.

For 5th, I will most likely keep it and maybe add the underslung shuriken cannons (taken back from the Falcons!) for defensive fire, and some anti armour if it's needed.

11-07-2008, 11:10
Bright Lance is for the win. Key reasons:

1. High chance to hit with TL.
2. You get Heavy Support unit without filling out Heavy Support section.
3. It is better to have BL then ML since ML is obviously weaker against vehicles.
4. It is better to have BL then ScatLas since ScatLas is similar to anti-infantry damage provided by other main units.

Second choice is TL ShurCannons - it is cheap and it is almost as good as ScatLas.

11-07-2008, 11:16
3. It is better to have BL then ML since ML is obviously weaker against vehicles.
Unless the the vehicle is more than 36" but less than 48" away after moving the serpent where it's much much worse, or is armour 12 or less in which case it's the same.

It is stronger against 2+ save infantry though.

I always keep a BL Serpent in case of high armour though, especially as it's the forgeworld model...


SS in my post refers to Spirit Stones, do you mean Starcannon or Scatterlaser by SS?

11-07-2008, 12:24
SS here is a Scatterlaser.

Starcannon became pretty useless for vehicles - it is expensive, has few shots and low strength.

11-07-2008, 18:29
I didn't mention the Star Cannon because in 4th edition I don't think anyone takes them anymore sure they have good AP against MEQs but the scatter laser has more shots which is better all around especially with all the cover saves in 5th.

I think I will be trying the Spirit Stones, Eldar Missle Launcher, Shuriken Cannon, combo, sounds good against tanks except av 13-14 and has the str 4 template it can fire along with the shuriken cannon against troops and a decent extra weapon if it loses one. Might add on vectored engines depends on the points I have left. Will be putting fire dragons in the serpent.

The twin linked brightlance is very good against vehicles other then the monolith but it is expensive.