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borgut facebeater
13-07-2008, 10:33
Why do all the evil armies want to take over the empire BAR: DE: and why not conquer brettiona of ulthan thanks for any replies

logan054
13-07-2008, 11:14
because the empire is on the way to the brets :)

Kai Itzah
13-07-2008, 11:17
No evil army wants to take over the empire as far as I know.

X of Chaos wants to plunge the world into the warp.
Dark Elves want to rule Ulthuan.
Orcs & Goblins...well, they just WAAAGGGGHHH!
Skaven want to dominate the world.
Tomb Kings want to reclaim their old lands.
Vampire Counts want to dominate the world.

If they do start with the Empire, it's because it's the most prosperous landmass.

logan054
13-07-2008, 11:23
can i just point out that orcs and TK arnt actually evil ;)

havoc626
13-07-2008, 11:25
I'd agree with Kai on this one.

The Empire has lots of land, and most of it can be used as good farmland. So instead of fighting, say, the Ogre Kingdoms, who have mostly mountains and very little area for crops, then moving on to the Empire, it would be better for them to take the Empire, then use the newly aquired land to raise a larger army, then take the Ogres easily. I have nothing against Ogres, they are just the first thing that came to mind.

Braad
13-07-2008, 11:34
Also, geographically, the Empire is located just next to the places where a lot of those races that like to wage war live. However, for example, Orcs and goblins (and especially night gobbo's) just as well like to invade a few dwarven holds as well...

monkeymatt
13-07-2008, 11:59
Plus Ulthran is quite hard to invade due to the spells that make it allmost impossible to get to...

Orcboy_Phil
13-07-2008, 12:03
The Empire is the Warhammer equivelnet to Gondor, its just in the way. But hang on a minute, what about Kislev, they take a hell of a lot of abuse.

Archaon
13-07-2008, 12:19
Kislev is a rather minor player.. they do hold their own but a full scale Chaos invasion would overrun them which is why the Empire aids them so readily.

Better they stop them in Kislev and do the fighting there than risk damage in the Empire.

Kai Itzah
13-07-2008, 12:48
can i just point out that orcs and TK arnt actually evil ;)

Yes, and I wouldn't consider Wood Elves or the Empire (in some cases) "good" either, but if we were going to be put things into two categories, I'd put TK and Orcs in the evil one because Orcs apathetically cause horrendous amounts of damage, and TK is just plain insane.

Gobbo Lord
13-07-2008, 12:52
Plus Ulthran is quite hard to invade due to the spells that make it allmost impossible to get to...

Grom the Paunch managed and he wasnt even trying :)

vinush
13-07-2008, 13:57
Exactly, Grom wasn't trying to get there, and therefore discovered it by accident.

If he were trying to get there deliberately, then he would have had a hard time of it.

\/ince.

Conotor
13-07-2008, 14:24
can i just point out that orcs and TK arnt actually evil ;)

Orcs are. Don't you consider mindless violence evil?

Kai Itzah
13-07-2008, 15:10
Nope, I don't because it's mindless. What Orcs are is similar to Chaos. Chaos is just Chaos, it isn't evil, but that doesn't I don't despise Chaos. Orcs are Chaotic.

vinush
13-07-2008, 15:13
Chaos is evil, it's the epitome of evil in the old world. It's as evil as evil can be. It's that simple. They worship Daemons, and plan on destroying the entire world.

\/ince

Gobbo Lord
13-07-2008, 15:20
Chaos has a face now, its not just the warp entity, emotions rubbish it once was. They are very real, very physical gods, who are inherantly evil. They live in a cottage on the plains of the warp and activly plot against reality, twirling their very real mustaches as they do so.

logan054
13-07-2008, 15:33
Yes, and I wouldn't consider Wood Elves or the Empire (in some cases) "good" either, but if we were going to be put things into two categories, I'd put TK and Orcs in the evil one because Orcs apathetically cause horrendous amounts of damage, and TK is just plain insane.

Well empire or more good than orcs and Tk are evil, i think empire try and be the good guys, wood elves, well again neutral but who cares about them, they just hide in a forest and cry if you stand their grass, kinda like the old man that shouts at your playing football on his grass.

I still wouldnt class orcs as evil, kinda like saying the local school bully is evil, chances are he isnt, he just likes to fight ;) TK again you look at the intent, to reclaim their lands, how is that evil?

Urgat
13-07-2008, 16:46
Nope, I don't because it's mindless. What Orcs are is similar to Chaos. Chaos is just Chaos, it isn't evil, but that doesn't I don't despise Chaos. Orcs are Chaotic.

I can see the reasoning, I just want to point out that orcs don't like chaos at all, I remember a short story about an orc army about to fight a chaos army, showing how, for once, they aren't very cheerful at the idea of a good fight because chaos isn't "natural" or something.

Oh, and Grom planned to invade Bretonnia too, he just got sidetracked "a bit" :p

Finnigan2004
13-07-2008, 16:47
Well, anyone who has faced an army of Brettonian knights understands why it's easy to get sidetracked when planning an invasion of Brettonia.

sulla
13-07-2008, 18:51
I can see the reasoning, I just want to point out that orcs don't like chaos at all, I remember a short story about an orc army about to fight a chaos army, showing how, for once, they aren't very cheerful at the idea of a good fight because chaos isn't "natural" or something.



I think he was referring to O&G being chaotic in nature (i.e. not orderly at all). Not alligned to the so-called chaos powers (who actually seem pretty orderly most of the time).

Torga_DW
13-07-2008, 21:02
Because the empire is like the fat kid in school. Everybody picks on him. ;)

DarknessDawns
14-07-2008, 04:11
remember, chaos isnt a race, its an allignment, in which lifestyle and preferance come from

kroq'gar
14-07-2008, 04:26
its true though- in EVERY army book there is artwork of some empire guys getting killed.

wizuriel
14-07-2008, 05:27
remember, chaos isnt a race, its an allignment, in which lifestyle and preferance come from

chaos is 3 races :p the evil beastman race, the evil empire race and the evil daemon race.

but yeah I think the problem with the empire is they are just in the middle of everything.

maybe if those vast "unknown" lands to the east were ever written in we would see more spread war. Even just for mentions that chaos doesn't always take the same invasion path (cause that is very choatic)

Ward.
14-07-2008, 06:02
can i just point out that orcs and TK aren't actually evil ;) No armies are inherently evil, except for skaven.


remember, chaos isn't a race, its an alignment, in which lifestyle and preference come from

In fantasy it's considered a "religion'.

DarknessDawns
14-07-2008, 10:29
true true
though i guess it is that empire is in the middle of everything

Condottiere
14-07-2008, 10:42
Aside from Beastmen, Chaos worshippers, Skaven and Daemons, I'd say that Chaos Dwarves and Dark Elves clearly qualify as evil. LM and WE are neutral. TK, O&G and OK are self-centred with evil results. The rest have good intentions.

The Red Scourge
14-07-2008, 12:56
The Empire is an evil fascist dictatorship, based on the exploitation of the weak and destitute by despicable despots.

The four true gods brings a promise of power to the people to overthrow their oppressors, and to take what is theirs by right. The freedom to shape their own destiny.

When first the Empire has fallen, we shall concentrate our forces upon the evil masterminds and slave masters of Ulthuan, and when their frail and corrupt race has fallen, the world will finally be free.

Now let us sound the cries of the revolution:

Liberty, equality and brotherhood!

DarknessDawns
14-07-2008, 14:29
^ what he said

mav1971
14-07-2008, 14:58
can i just point out that orcs and TK arnt actually evil ;)

Well they aren't the nicest guys around either.

Chiron
14-07-2008, 15:10
Well they aren't the nicest guys around either.

You'd be fairly pissed off to if someone promised you an eternal life in paradise after death only to wake up and find someone robbing your grave, his arm elbow deep in the guts of your dead auntie to satisfy his "curiousity about the ancient past"

Sir Charles
14-07-2008, 17:54
Yes, and I wouldn't consider Wood Elves or the Empire (in some cases) "good" either, but if we were going to be put things into two categories, I'd put TK and Orcs in the evil one because Orcs apathetically cause horrendous amounts of damage, and TK is just plain insane.
What is insane about TK for the most part they just want to rule over their old kingdom,for the most part they are no diferent then any other human ciz they just happen to be dead.


edit: ha,ha, nicely put Chiron.

Solon
14-07-2008, 20:00
IMO our perspective of the abuse is often skewed. Most of our knowledge of the Empire is from the human perspective, certainly this is true in the BRB.

Sadly, the Warhammer world is doomed. The HE are barely holding down Ulthuan and their grip continues to loosen. = They have suffered abuse for thousands of years.

The Slann and their henchman are the feeble remnants of the greatest threat to Chaos. Most of the Slann are dead and the few that remain are merely stewards for empty mansions. The Slann are Good, just really really alien. = Abused for longer than the HE

The Dwarfs..well, we already know that one. = Abused for centuries.

The TK brought it on themselves. Necromancy is EVIL and corruptive. The Tomb Kings and Princes deserved their fate. Not only do they "re-claim" their lands, but they seek to extend their dominion. They are no longer human nor do they think as humans.. they are so evil.

The Vamps deserve their fate. They are evil too.

The WE are Good, not nuetral. They aren't paladins, they won't rescue your girlfriend on the train tracks, but that doesn't mean they aren't good. The WE are GOOD. They take abuse from everyone; everyone wants a peice of their pie. = Abused all the time ala secret war with BoC.

Chaos - chaos is not neutral nor good you relativist scum. They are ultimate evil, ancient evil, utterly evil, and their victory is almost inevitable. If not for their divided motivations they would already have destroyed the Warhammer world.

Skaven are evil. Incompetent, yet evil. And let me make this clear - if you snort warpstone straight to the dome then you are E-Vil.

Most ogres are evil. They have been corrupted by the Maw and are slaves to their hunger. Pity them.

Orcs and Goblins are Evil. However, they are totally out of their league. OnG are in USA's Major League Soccer while Chaos, Skaven, Dark Elves are English Premier clubs that get bought out by wealthy Russian oligarchs and Rupert Murdoch.

Brettonia is a meat sheild for the WE. Accept it.

Now, the Empire is unequivacally good. It is founded on the ideals of Sigmar, embodied in Ghal Maraz, and therefore the Empire is a construct of Fate itself. The Empire is what the TK could never be and never will be. The Empire of Man is not a lesser race. The Empire is the last great power. The Enemy does not want to destroy the Empire of Man for farm land, nor for wealth, nor because it is "in the way" - Preposterous! The destruction of the Empire is the measure of greatness for they that succeed; failing that, the attempt itself is the best means of unifying an evil race and therefore achieving power, e.g. Archaeon.

Given the status quo the Empire will one day fall. Chaos and the other enemies are too strong. Its the grim determination in the face of nearly certain annihilation that makes the Good races GOOD.

Sir Charles
14-07-2008, 22:08
How exactly did TK "bring it on themselves" they were murdered an risen by an enemy they had fought and done their best to destroy. After that they went back to operating the same as they had before, a human kingdom that just happened to be populated by the dead. Their motives and everything are the same human motives they had before their deaths so to say they don't think as humans is bs.

Havock
14-07-2008, 22:15
Orcs are. Don't you consider mindless violence evil?

Nope. I'd rate it F for Fun.

Shamfrit
14-07-2008, 22:18
I completely resent Evil as a title or attribute for Skaven. Instinct overrides human emotion and morality, and they're not exactly 'good' no, but they're not 'evil' by it's strict definition.

That age old line, 'everything's not as...' (grey as it seems? Or something...) rears it's ugly head.

That, or I just think Skaven are sociologically misrepresented...

Lijacote
14-07-2008, 22:25
Now, the Empire is unequivacally good. It is founded on the ideals of Sigmar, embodied in Ghal Maraz, and therefore the Empire is a construct of Fate itself. The Empire is what the TK could never be and never will be. The Empire of Man is not a lesser race. The Empire is the last great power. The Enemy does not want to destroy the Empire of Man for farm land, nor for wealth, nor because it is "in the way" - Preposterous! The destruction of the Empire is the measure of greatness for they that succeed; failing that, the attempt itself is the best means of unifying an evil race and therefore achieving power, e.g. Archaeon.

You don't think that's a bit much said after how you skipped through every other race?



The Dwarfs..well, we already know that one. = Abused for centuries.

You could replace "Dwarfs" with Empire and it'd still be correct. And if we're to call chaos evil, then let it be known that it's the evil that we know. I'm doubtful about the existence of such values outside of our spheres.

Solon
14-07-2008, 22:52
How exactly did TK "bring it on themselves" they were murdered an risen by an enemy they had fought and done their best to destroy. After that they went back to operating the same as they had before, a human kingdom that just happened to be populated by the dead. Their motives and everything are the same human motives they had before their deaths so to say they don't think as humans is bs.

I will elaborate on what I meant by "bring it on themselves".

The TK had power and a thriving civilization while the rest of man struggled to survive in the Stone Age. The TK faced no existential threat as the Elves and Dwarfs had not yet collapsed. This wasn't enough. TK society did not have its roots in ideals of virtue, order, or law. TK society grew from roots composed of strict authoritarian domination. Even this wasn't enough for Settra. Having unified his race he decided that he would conquer death. He rejected every gift of man simply because he was mortal. He would not accept the natural cycle.

Nagash is not seperate from the TK. Nagash is TK. The TK consumed themselves. Today, Settra has immortality without the means of enjoying it!

If the Bone Kings still believe that they are human then so much greater is the irony of their doom.

Shamfrit
14-07-2008, 22:55
And so the Empire shall fall, as their sand kissed brothers.

An irony unseen but repeated in a thousand mirrored multiverses.

Man destroys itself. There is no question.

Ward.
15-07-2008, 02:40
Aside from Beastmen, Chaos worshippers, Skaven and Daemons, I'd say that Chaos Dwarves and Dark Elves clearly qualify as evil. LM and WE are neutral. TK, O&G and OK are self-centred with evil results. The rest have good intentions.

That'd be true, except for the fact that daemons are merely representations of human emotions, Something which can't be evil. Beastmen and dark elves are hardly evil either.



LOTS OF STUFF


You're trying to decide evil from the wrong view point, from the protagonists view, every race is a "good" or "neutral"l one (woodelves certainly are neutral, they lead child slave raids through brettonnian villages after all ;)).


I completely resent Evil as a title or attribute for Skaven. Instinct overrides human emotion and morality, and they're not exactly 'good' no, but they're not 'evil' by it's strict definition.

That age old line, 'everything's not as...' (grey as it seems? Or something...) rears it's ugly head.

That, or I just think Skaven are sociologically misrepresented...

That would be true, except that it's not instinctual for skaven to swarm the old world and eat or enslave it's inhabitants for no reason but they'd do it anyway.

Doctor Know
15-07-2008, 04:44
Chaos - chaos is not neutral nor good you relativist scum. They are ultimate evil, ancient evil, utterly evil, and their victory is almost inevitable. If not for their divided motivations they would already have destroyed the Warhammer world.

This is one of the sillier statements I see pop up on Warseer; unless you believe (contrary to all logic and existing background material) that Sigmar is, in fact, Jesus Christ, not an analogue, not a metaphor, but an actual representation of the one true savior of the world, then this condemnation of "relativist" makes no sense at all.

The Warhammer world is explicitly polytheist, and not in some sort of ambiguous way where it could be described as having people with imperfect understanding of their deities. No, we're told, by the guys who define the Warhammer universe, that the Chaos Gods not only exist in some nebulous and transcendent way, but as actual Deities who are worshiped, and in turn provide unambiguous instructions to their worshipers. That being the case, it's a lot easier to make the case that the Sigmar cult is simply a means of state control (an opiate of the masses, to steal a term) then coherently condemn the followers of the manifest Chaos Gods.



Most ogres are evil. They have been corrupted by the Maw and are slaves to their hunger. Pity them.

Orcs and Goblins are Evil. However, they are totally out of their league. OnG are in USA's Major League Soccer while Chaos, Skaven, Dark Elves are English Premier clubs that get bought out by wealthy Russian oligarchs and Rupert Murdoch.

Here you seem to show a fundamentally odd notion of good and evil. Why should we pity ogres? If they truly are creature of uncontrollable appetite, and condemned to this state by a sort of speciating mutation, then they lack the one fundamental characteristic that separates a "man", that is, a thinking, moral being, not a homo sapien, from an animal; moral choice. If ogres are only slaves to their appetites (which is pretty much the relationship between orcs and their WAAAAAGH) then they are just talking monkeys (really big monkeys), not evil.

I'm really mystified by your classification of the Tomb Kings too. At least in the last edition of their faction book, they certainly aren't portrayed as disproportionately violent compared to other races, and certainly less so then races like the dark elves and the Vampire counts. You seem to be labeling them as evil for what they are, not what they do (a viewpoint that in and of itself is not exactly morally neutral).

borgut facebeater
15-07-2008, 18:34
okay this has gone off the piont can we get back on or can this thread be closed

Shamfrit
15-07-2008, 18:44
That would be true, except that it's not instinctual for skaven to swarm the old world and eat or enslave it's inhabitants for no reason but they'd do it anyway. - Ward

It's what RATS would do, and what they DO do.

We can't fault them for doing what they've been given the chance to do can we?

vinush
15-07-2008, 18:52
Yes.

\/ince.

Solon
15-07-2008, 20:30
I've offered my theories on why the Empire is abused.

TBH I've been a bit tongue-in-cheek, assigning labels to races as though I were Adam in the garden. IMO the terms good and evil are a simple verbal vehicle for talking about the absorption of the material universe into the immaterial Warp.

Ward.
16-07-2008, 02:30
That would be true, except that it's not instinctual for skaven to swarm the old world and eat or enslave it's inhabitants for no reason but they'd do it anyway. - Ward

It's what RATS would do, and what they DO do.

We can't fault them for doing what they've been given the chance to do can we?

Even when real rats do similar things, its because of external causes. Such as overpopulation and food shortage, rats don't have an innate desire to kill everything around them.

Captain Eric Lionheart
16-07-2008, 03:33
Other than chaos, BoC, and dark elves, no army see themselves as "evil."

Sir Charles
16-07-2008, 03:44
I will elaborate on what I meant by "bring it on themselves".

The TK had power and a thriving civilization while the rest of man struggled to survive in the Stone Age. The TK faced no existential threat as the Elves and Dwarfs had not yet collapsed. This wasn't enough. TK society did not have its roots in ideals of virtue, order, or law. TK society grew from roots composed of strict authoritarian domination. Even this wasn't enough for Settra. Having unified his race he decided that he would conquer death. He rejected every gift of man simply because he was mortal. He would not accept the natural cycle.

Nagash is not seperate from the TK. Nagash is TK. The TK consumed themselves. Today, Settra has immortality without the means of enjoying it!

If the Bone Kings still believe that they are human then so much greater is the irony of their doom.And all of that you just described are quite human actions, hubris like shown by Settra is an extreamly human flaw. I also fail to see what their scocieties strict authoritarian tendencies have to do with anything, the Empire is hardly a shining light of virtue in such matters, yet they are good? And what gifts of man did Settra regect, he was suppose to return to life in a fully human form cabable of living those gifts for all time.

As for Nagash not being seperate from the TK and their thus being to blame for him, you could say the same for Acheron, he was after all once a Templar of Sigmar before learning the true nature of the Gods and returning to consume the Empire, yet again the Empire holds no blame?


OT I think the Empire is no more abused then any other group, it just seems that way because GW in its blatant Empircentirsm focuses on the Empire in the background material, WHRP, BL ect, far more than any other group. If they were to provide more equal coverage to the other armies I'm sure we would see them having bad stuff happen to them more often.

Condottiere
16-07-2008, 06:05
The Empire gets attacked, by enemies domestic and foreign, because it's there. Like historical Germany, it's square in the invasion path(s) of a number of groups whose intent is to dominate the Old World.

To secure this domination, this large entity has to be overthrown, a fact that is recognized by certain strategic Ulthuan think tanks, who have tried to influence High Elven policy to support the Empire's war efforts. Successfully, I might add.

Chiron
16-07-2008, 07:48
Even when real rats do similar things, its because of external causes. Such as overpopulation and food shortage, rats don't have an innate desire to kill everything around them.

And this is why Skaven overrun the world, they breed at an exponential rate and if they didnt attack the world they would collapse under the weight of their population.

Unless they conquer the surface world and learn to farm they will continue this cycle of massive overpopulation and population reduction by warfare/politics

IzDaBoss
11-04-2009, 21:20
Cuz Da Umies Gotz All Da Shiny Stuffz

Col. Tartleton
11-04-2009, 21:54
^
Well that solves all our discussion.

I say skaven are evil. They're evil because they represent all the ills of humanity. They are born from evil, they are raised among evil, they live wickedly, they are evil. This doesn't make them inhuman, it makes them more human.

They are the only entire race I could ever see as being pumped about being "the bad guy." Something that people actually do. Most things do things for a reason, people do things because they know it doesn't make sense but don't care. In warhammer they're called "Chaos."

Most races seek power, orcs seek a fight, skaven? We just twirl our mouse-staches and do maniacal laughing sessions because we were raised that way. There is something extremely satisfying about not getting killed and still making other people explode. Its called "awesome."

Urgat
11-04-2009, 21:58
Cuz Da Umies Gotz All Da Shiny Stuffz

Posting that was really a good reason for resurecting that topic :p

selone
11-04-2009, 22:30
Cuz Da Umies Gotz All Da Shiny Stuffz

Pretty good thread ender imo and clearly the reason :cool:

bob_the_small
11-04-2009, 23:01
The empire is in the way... SIMPLE

Warlord Gnashgrod
11-04-2009, 23:02
I would also say Skaven are evil. To compare them to regular rats doesn't fully work, as Skaven aren't ruled by instinct any more than humans are. They are sentient beings. The think, they can create, they have a society, even a god to worship.

Yes they do often attack when their population gets way out of control, but after all they always fight enemies in large numbers. Plus they don't always wait until this time either. The same thing applies in a way to Orcs and Gobbos too. O&Gs fight in large nmbers. That doesn't make it instinctual or non evil; both races just like to hedge their bets with overwhelming force. ;)

I think Tartleton has it right; Skaven represent all the worse aspects of humanity and then raise them to the Nth degree. Not only do they do this, they enjoy it and revell in it. Now that I think is evil.

Crp.Zoega
11-04-2009, 23:21
Well, anyone who has faced an army of Brettonian knights understands why it's easy to get sidetracked when planning an invasion of Brettonia.

QFT!:)

And besides I bet there have been several invasions of Bretonnia that the brets have doesnt talk about because they were defeated by rowing teenagers i.e Errants.

For those of you who dont get it, this is a joke by me Bret fanboy number 1.

Sasori_jap
12-04-2009, 03:41
You guys try to go too deep and miss the obvious...

Check this out..chaos right? Every god that makes you: cut the heads off your enemies and place them in your belt, fuse with unholy spells horses and riders into hideous abominations, spread diseases that make them puke their insides out and make them horny to the point that they want to tear their eyes out...THEY ARE PURE EVIL!

Also Skaven...They kill their own kind for fun and survival, they fuse beasts into mutated monstrosities and generally they are EVIL

They only races you can tell they are a bit good for sure are the High Elves, Lizardmen, Dwarfs, Bretonians and the Empire and thats because they dont do those hideous things i described above.

kroq'gar
12-04-2009, 03:57
The empires the bastion of hope - however every army wants to conquer everywhere, i mean the dragon emporer, skaven & chaos were tried to conquer lustria, albion was a free for all, the empires had wars with bretonnia, the dwarves are constantly fighting skaven and orcs, they also attacked athel loren. ulthuan is relatively safe due to its location and navy- until the DE try and take it or an orc waaagh/chaos fleet goes off shore and washes up. Orcs and chaos, have both smacked skavens hellpit, the undead played around in mousolin, skaven sacked maralangio in tilea, nagaash wants to conquer everywhere.

Every race is evil to anothers perspective- what would a dwarf say if you told him a fat toad caused their devestating earthquakes- he'd call the fat toad evil.

WarlockOMork
12-04-2009, 04:08
im completly agreeing with Red Scourge. he summed it up quite nicely.

Chaos isnt evil. its just an religion with widely diffrent vieuws, they see you as theyr oppressors, and the elves more or less as their jailors.

They just want to be free :p. Seriously free. so free they can all do anything they want.
Including bashing peoples brains out.

like some random dudes Sig on this forum(forgot who), wich went something like.

We live for the kill, not because of hatred, not envy, (not etc) just blood for the blood god, the other way around would make it so, well hm... evil

hacking off heads because you oppose our relegion, sounds quite acceptable, it happens even in real life, where it is even deemed by said relegions as a semi-good act.
and even the catholics have done stuff like that, The Crusades!.

lets conquer the world so we can show them all the light that is chaos, huzzah!

That aside why chaos comes trough the empire? well they wouldnt most of the time.
First they gotta get trough kislev, and their goal beeing ulthuan, could go trough the empire i suppose.

And for O&G's they arent evil either.
Fighting is their method of deciding who owns what. theyr system of law, theyr games. And mostly they fight because they think its fun.

lets Do some good and share that fun with the world shall we.

Why O&G's fight the empire? well as someone said, you got the shiny stuff, that and your just close, beyond that we would fight anyone, we are that nice.
Free Fightyness for all!

To sum it up. Everything is relative. it all depends on who's point of vieuw you take.