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eleveninches
15-07-2008, 11:53
Do you think this army would work? THe phoenix guard will be virtually impossible to kill.

140: lv1 Mage (2 scrolls OR scroll of forgetfulness)
184: BSB (great weapon, dragon armour, banner of the world dragon)[goes with phoenix guard]
320: 30 Spearelves (banner of arcane protection)
110: 10 Archers
710: 43 Phoenix Guard (lion banner, FC, gem of courage)
128: 8 Shadow Warriors
400: 4 RTB

kroq'gar
15-07-2008, 11:55
Ever been flanked?

Whether 10 or 1000, your pheonix guard will be flanked and killed.

EDIT:
read my sig. That was 20 pheonix guard with caradrian.... The mentioned unit champion was carrying the gem of courage right as he was eaten.

eleveninches
15-07-2008, 12:07
Its hard to flank a unit when I can get supporting units to cover their flank. The archers can be positioned at the side of the PG to prevent being charged in the flank. If its used properly, it can be very hard to flank the unit

EvC
15-07-2008, 12:16
It needs a lot of work. You have a BSB with 5+ armour save. The Phoenix Guard certainly don't need Lion Banner as they cause Fear, though I can see most opponents just ignoring them completely anyway, you still have 1300 soft and squishy points :)

Lord Malorne
15-07-2008, 12:21
Even with the 4 RBT you could still be outshot, magic will tear you a new one and the pheonix guard will probably never be brought to battle against a good player who will ignore, then surround them.

eleveninches
15-07-2008, 12:38
I could put the PG in front of the 4 Bolt throwers (which are on a hill). And the shadow warriors will be quite hard to kill, as they can keep out of the way of charges and magic.

eleveninches
15-07-2008, 12:41
Or I could deploy my army in one corner, and move the PG so that they stretch in a line 1-2 ranks deep, so they need to be charged in the front to get to the bolt throwers and archers. Deploy the spearelves in the far corner to distract the opponant, and have the shadow warriors going warmachine hiunting / mage hunting.

Or what about the above tactic but using single lines of white lions to guard the entire army.
magic will tear you a new one exactly how? I have 3 DD and 2 scrolls. The PG are immune to magic, and the spearelves have MR(2)

Lord Malorne
15-07-2008, 12:50
3 DD and 2 scrolls against an average of 7-11 PD in most armies will not last very long at all, they do have MR(2) but they also have T3 and a 5+ armour save, not all magic is direct so other spells that do not directly effect the unit will ahve free reign.

Your list is interesting, it is just sacrificing too much to have a big unit of pheonix guard in.

EvC
15-07-2008, 12:59
3DD and 2 scrolls won't save you from Vampire Counts magic, which is the biggest worry in my opinion. Even against a Tzeentch horde with 15 power dice that magic immunity won't mean much, as he'll torch your support units and put the big hurt on your Spearmen where MR2 won't help that much.

warlord hack'a
15-07-2008, 13:57
you are playing points denial but have one unit which denies points, leaving the rest of your army to be eaten up.. Not a good list at all. Yes it might work if the terrain is exactly as you need it (hill in a corner) but even then enemy fliers can fly over your phoenix guard and take out 400 points of RTB easily. Also, your phoenix guards might be immune to magic, but enough armour negating shooting will still put the hurt on them, even with their 4+ wardsave.

_Lucian_
15-07-2008, 14:35
Ive always understood points denial to be about 'denying' your opponent points, not putting a units of 43 t3 enemies in his way? seriously even with a 4+ ward there are a serious ammount of opponents who could take them out in a the space of 3 turns.... Also i like the way you say 'thee RBT's will be on a hill with PG infront', almost as if you know thats how terrain will be placed.... I would honestly love to fight against this army, HE are not anvils they are hammers, i was expecting expensive scouting characters and lots of eagles when i read the thread title. Not a list which says kill me now, even a big OK unit could beat your PG in a straight fight and following a bad Ld test (and dead BSB) it would litterally be game over....

Marwynn
15-07-2008, 16:17
Sorry dude but while the 4+ Ward Saves for our PGs are wicked cool they're still going to die half the time they're wounded. A few solid shooting phases with template weapons and the Phoenix Guard die just like the T3 elves they are.

I suggest going back to basics. This isn't going to stop anyone from killing you. Two units of PGs with 20 each is a lot more stable for one thing. You'll also need a solid core of delayers. Forget the Spears. Get some Reavers to marchblock and take corners.

Plus more magic defense.

Mannfred
16-07-2008, 09:34
Btw have you used this list before because i've fought something quite similar a unit of 35 phoenix guard and a noble with lore master cloak and a battle standard with battle banner so thats like (5+ Armour ; 4+ ward shooting; 2+ ward from magic and like d6 extra combat res per round) er honestly...i just killed the unit with a unit of 5 Cairn Wraiths in my vampire count army and with your list u probably can't touch em with only a single mage...so yesh...rethink the list...