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Kirika
15-07-2008, 22:09
Prince
Star Dragon
Armour of Caledor
Vambraces of Defence
Gem of Courage
Haleberd
Total - 616

Caradryan 175

Mage
Dispell scroll
Dispell scroll
Total - 140

10 Archers
Total 110

10 Archers
Total 110


6 x Dragon Princes of Caledor
Champion
Amulet of Light
Musician
Standard
Lion standard
Total - 270

5 x Dragon Princes of Caledor
Total - 150


12 Sword Masters
Standard
War banner
Champion
Skeinsliver
Total - 249

5 Shadow Warriors
Total 80

3 x Repeater Bolt Throwers
Total - 300

1 X Giant Eagle
Total - 50

Total - 2250

Prince on Star Dragon - One of the two usual Star Dragon builds. I like the survivability 2+ AS 4+ WS better then the Star Lance, Talisman build. The Gem of Courage addes to survivability to reroll your leadership if you wiff on attacks.

Caradryan - he is just good goes with the Sword Masters to give them magic resistance 3 and fear.

Mage - goes with the Swordmasters casts shield on the swordmasters and acts as a scroll caddy.

2x 10 Archers - Fill core they go near the bolt throwers on a hill if possible.

Dragon Prince unit 1 - Amulet of light to get magical attacks and the lion standard to be immune to fear and terror so they can kill VC Wraiths and Etherals stuff. Also not bad against demons being immune to fear.

Dragon Prince Unit 2 - just the basic unit of 5 for 150 points help support the Dragon.

Swordmasters - they hold the skein sliver because first turn is pretty important for high elves now. warbanner for better combat res to hopefully break a unit combined with the many attacks.

5x Shadow Warriors - hid in cover and shoot their artillery or march block. Not sure if they are really worth it with VC and Demons being the main armys but they decent against other armies.

3 x Repeat Bolt Throwers - I used to go 2 and 2 eagles but with all the big nasties like Greater Demons and Vampire Counts Blood Knights having 3 sounds like a good bet

1 Giant Eagle - for march blocking, baiting frenzied units like Blood knights or going after their artillery.

I'm a little worried about only having 3 Dispel Dice and 2 Scrolls against Vampire Counts and Demons but hope to get in combat fast. Don't really want to go with Teclis as he can be a bit unreliable had him miscast at critical times when I used him in Ardboys. Archmage just comes in as worse then Teclis without knowing all the spells or getting extra dice.

I been winning my games against Empire, Bretonians, High Elves and Ogre Kingdoms with this list. I have problems with Demons and Vampire Counts though. Going with a second mage might help but have to give up Caradryan who is just awesome with the swordmaster unit.

I been finding it takes more then just a unit of dragon princes to take down a demon unit like Juggers or Hounds. They are just that tough. Flamers go down with good rolling to Dragon Princes because they do no wounds lose combat by quite a bit if the rolls were decent and die or are close to dead by Instability. 3 RBTs helps against the greater demon but combined with good magic from Heralds it can be pretty tough against a smart player who takes other magic lores without fire attacks.

Vampire Counts is just a big pain in the ass. Assasinating the Lord is nearly impossible against a good player. I tried the Archmage list but that didn't help all that much they still had more dispel dice and I had less hard hiting units. Dragon with Dragon Prince Support is pretty nasty but Vanhels ruins Calvary's day sometimes extending their charge. Hence adding Swordmasters. Dragon Princes with Amulet of Light and Lion Standard do a decent job against Wraith lists being pretty mobile however the unit is a bit expensive. Saving Scrolls and dispel dice to stop key van Hels and winds of death only but its still not enough. second mage does give you two more scrolls but Caradryan really helps the swordmaster unit out alot giving them fear and magic resist 3.

Another idea is the 10 dragon prince hammer unit with bsb with banner of world dragon and std with lion standard. I tried in Ardboys but I had them hit a Chaos Demon Chariot and they couldn't kill it so the second rank I don't think was worth it. The unit was pretty expensive and if it didn't break though first turn was just stuck. It was awesome with a combined Dragon Charge though.

Seriously thinking of starting that Zombie Pirate Vampire Count army I been wanting to start ever since seeing Pirates of the Caribbean. Just thats gonna be darn expensive with the bits situation now though.

What you think?

backslide
17-07-2008, 08:14
it all makese sense and looks solid, I don't see why you don't give your prince a great weapon though, and VS VC magical attacks on him might be important

problem with the tooled up dragon princes is they are almost the price of 2 naked ones which given the size of your army would prolly be a better buy, arguable that PG would work better for your army than SM and they are than much more soild, and provide the fulcrum for your army to work around

its actually similar in form to my list, but I use PG, chariots and a totally different character set up, archmage/dragon mage

Marwynn
17-07-2008, 16:10
He's on a Star Dragon, so the Halberd works just as well as a Lance.

Hmm, I think your SMs are gonna get shot at even if Caradryan's a good choice. That unit will be the priority shooting target of your enemies. You have one tricked out DP unit but a vanilla one as well. Then you have Shadow Warriors who are slightly underperforming these days; not much to recommend them. If you can find 5 points I'd take a Tiranoc Chariot or Reavers instead.

The main problem I see is that half of your list is gonna go on towards the enemy (Star Dragon and DPs) while the other half, Archers and SMs are left by themselves. You have more than enough shooting but a lot less battlefield control with only having one Eagle. That means, to my pessimistic mind, that your opponent will be able to rush and counter your SMs and backfield or fold in to your SD + DPs.

Kirika
17-07-2008, 17:05
backside
Well the great weapon only gives +1 strength when mounted so is not worth the points. The Halberd gives +1 strength as well for less points. Halberd is for against things like Vampire Counts and Demons if you get stuck in combat for more then one round str 5 attacks are a bit better then str 4. The lance only gives you +2 on the charge.

Yeah command on dragon princes are expensive but I figured I had to get the amulet of light in there somehow to be able to hit VC Wraiths. The immune to fear banner lets the dragon princes charge without having to make a fear test so I will be able to charge those undead or demons with no problems.

How well does your Archmage and dragon mage work out? I found magic to not work all that well against the Tzeench Demons or Vampire Counts unless you take Teclis.


Personally I don't like Pheonix Guard they just don't kill enough. I prefer kills to static combat res.

I used to like Chariots a lot back in 6th when you could take like 4- 6 of with Silver Helm support. Chariots were good en mass with calvary support but against hard armies though couple str 4 attacks and a d6 str 5 attacks is a little underwhelming for something that dies to a single str 7+ hit.

Could drop the Musician in the dragon princes to get a Tiranoc Chariot but was trying not to have any chariots to get blown up by a cannon shot. I have friends who are dead on with cannon sniping.


Marwynn
I found that the Swordmasters do make it to combat with at least the front line if not more they do get shot at but there is a Dragon and Dragon Princes they tend to shoot first.

I usually run the dragon and calvary up one flank and hold the rest back it and let them come to me that usually works pretty well. 3 bolt throwers is darn good against greater demons and steam tanks.

Was testing a Teclis list too but I like the Star Dragon list better so far.

The Magic list I was testing was

Teclis
Total 475

Caradryan
Total 175

Dragon Mage
Level 2
Silver Wand
Dispel Scroll
Total 415

10 Archers
Total 110

10 Archers
Total 110

5 Dragon Princes
Standard
Lion Standard
Total 195

5 Dragon Princes
Total - 150

11 Sword Masters
Standard
Banner of Sorcery
Champion
Skeinsliver
Total - 264

3 Bolt Throwers
Total - 300

1 Eagle
Total -50

2244

Had pretty good magic defense but lost the str 7 punch of the stardragon. I found the dragon mage not all that good against vampire counts and demons. He was decent against other armies with toughness 3 rank and file where he could toss fire spells and breath fire from a flank but the Vampires just raised them back again and Demons are pretty tough other then pink horrors.

If I go with the Teclis list I might actually drop the dragon mage for a BSB to go with dragon princes and a scroll caddy BSB kitted out with Banner of World Dragon is like 198 pts I think and the level 1 scroll caddy would be 140. and I would have some points to add some more Swordmasters and dragon prince but I like dragons alot so partial to the Star Dragon list. Don't like the must get Irrestitible force against magic heavy armies with tons of dispel if I don't I don't win. But Teclis is more flexible then the Stardragon.