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Aun'aart'al
30-10-2005, 07:12
ok, so! I want my custom Chapters' 4th and 9th company to have this rivalry/strong hatred towards each other, and as of This_Moment, Im looking towards say.. 1 company destroys an ork rok while the other company was on it, killing the entire company (big rok, please dont get all "thats impossible" on me.. seriously, no time for it lol)

but thats just an example of the sort of hatred, it could be bombardment of a battlefield with thunderhawks, but the 9th Company Must_Be_Destroyed. 100% casualties.

I ask for this because I cant write Fluff worth -blam!- and well.. lol there is a number of people on here that can :D

questions about details? ask here please, so that everyone else whos interested might be able to benefit from the questions and answers :)

McMullet
30-10-2005, 08:48
Just one little thought; would it maybe make for sense for the 4th company to get destroyed instead? The 9th is the reserve devastator company, so could have more chance of accidentally shooting up the 4th with their big guns and inexperience.

It's quite an interesting idea btw, although why the destroyed company would be annoyed about it when they're all dead I don't know. What is the fluff for the chapter as a whole? They would have to be pretty ruthless in character, or maybe unless there was a reason for them to accidentally kill 'em all (Sorry mate, didn't see ya...).

Helicon_One
30-10-2005, 11:40
Like McMullet said, the 9th are the reserve Devis, so they don't get involved in the fighting all that often. Maybe have them fighting off an invasion of their homeworld?

Wiping out a whole company is a tricky ask, unless they can be caught in a vulnerable position - eg whilst they're in in drop pods, Thunderhawks, or something.... How about, oh, something like this: during an invasion of the homeworld, the 9th Company all load up into Thunderhawks to rush reinforce some important strongpoint, and the 4th have been required to wipe out the enemy air defences to let them through clearly. For whatever reason, they screw up, and also don't manage to get word to the 9th before they arrive, and so the entire company gets hacked out of the sky....

Tim

Aun'aart'al
30-10-2005, 20:04
Just one little thought; would it maybe make for sense for the 4th company to get destroyed instead? The 9th is the reserve devastator company, so could have more chance of accidentally shooting up the 4th with their big guns and inexperience.

this will have to be debated once my Fluff has been read



..why the destroyed company would be annoyed about it when they're all dead I don't know.

the Smurf's 1st company was completely wiped out, and they have a strong hatred for the Tyranids..? lol why cant I have an intra-family hatred?


What is the fluff for the chapter as a whole?

heres my full Chapter Fluff (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7065&page=4). Check the last few pages for the more up-to-date stuff

Azhrahg
31-10-2005, 08:56
the Smurf's 1st company was completely wiped out, and they have a strong hatred for the Tyranids..? lol why cant I have an intra-family hatred?

heres my full Chapter Fluff (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7065&page=4). Check the last few pages for the more up-to-date stuff

The difference is that the ultra marines first company was well known and extremely respected by the other ultras, who therefore hates the nids. When a new first company was formed, they where drawn from the ranks of the other companies (as it is the elite company).

In your case the 9th company will be replaced by a few marines from each of the other companies as seargents (maybe even some from the 4th) and a whole bunch of scouts that gets promoted. Some promoted scouts will however still be assigned to the other companies - and some to the 4th. It seems odd that this mix of guys from different places will hate the 4th, whereas the marines in the other companies (who has the exact same background) doesn't.

I think your fluff will fit better if 70 % of the chapter gets killed, leaving enough marines to fill out sergeant positions and influence the new recruits.

Another aspect is the level of hatred. Do you see your 9th hating the 4th as much as the ultras hates the nids? Or more like the Space Wolfs hates the Dark Angels? In other words are there full scale hostilities between them, or the occasional skirmish and mistrust?
Finally why do the chapter master accept the situation. Does he believe that internal rivalries and infighting makes them stronger? Is he a blundering fool incapable of getting them in line? Is he blissfully ignorant in his ivory tower? As I remember your fluff they would probably be so dispersed that they manage to fight without alerting his attention?

Azhrahg.

Aun'aart'al
31-10-2005, 21:50
I think your fluff will fit better if 70 % of the chapter gets killed, leaving enough marines to fill out sergeant positions and influence the new recruits.

hmm, I see your point.. agreed, 3/4 of the Company survives the friendly-fire. Now, how do they survive, I'd like to include that in the Fluff



Another aspect is the level of hatred. Do you see your 9th hating the 4th as much as the ultras hates the nids? Or more like the Space Wolfs hates the Dark Angels? In other words are there full scale hostilities between them, or the occasional skirmish and mistrust?

I'd want the level of hatred to go so far as to say.. having it no different than suicidal to have the two companies fighting in the same area, because they will attack each other



Finally why do the chapter master accept the situation.
there is no one Chapter Master per se, there are several Councils that form the overall leadership of the entire Space Marine Chapter (reasons are explained in the Fluff, dont worry..)


Is he blissfully ignorant in his ivory tower?

pardon the childish reply, but.. yup, sounds good



As I remember your fluff they would probably be so dispersed that they manage to fight without alerting his attention?

sounds about accurate, the most the Chapter can meet at one location at one time would be about half the chapter at most.. and thats for conflicts as large as the Armageddon War (planning on only having 1 of those in my 5,000 year Fluff history..)

Azhrahg
01-11-2005, 07:03
hmm, I see your point.. agreed, 3/4 of the Company survives the friendly-fire. Now, how do they survive, I'd like to include that in the Fluff



Well I guess that depends on how the incident happened. The easy answer would be that 1/4 of the company was home guarding the base - 3/4 of a company should be plenty for most threats. However I like the idea of them crawling through a nightmarish shelling, seeing their brothers get blown to pieces all around them a lot better - makes for better hate and bitterness.

However you really need to decide what happened. Why did the 4th kill them - accident, lured by chaos, rivalry to claim an objective that got out of hand?

I personally like the last one. Two companies assigned to claim a very well defended planet (I disregard the fact that 9th company is usually a reserve devastator company, as your chapter is far from codex standard). After years of gruelling warfare, the two companies finally have the final fortress where the enemy commander resides within striking distance. However both commanders want the honour of taking the fortress. The 4th company has a higher proportion of heavy weapons and wants to soften up the defences before assaulting, while the 9th wants to make a full assault.
On the eve of battle the commander of the 9th orders his marines to sneak close to the walls of the fortress and prepare to attack just before dawn. However the 4th doesn't know this, and start blasting away at the fortress just as the 9th launches the attack. This causes heavy casualties amongst the 9th, but they press on the attack regardless. They are unable to contact the 4th due to their exposed position - the enemy would pick up their signal and be ready to kill them before they are able to plant the breaching explosives on the walls. It's not untill a full hour later when they have claimed the wall, they are able to alert the 4th about their presence - due to the casualties this is done in a very unpolite manner!
The commander of the 4th gets furious by the insults and the fact that the 9th are about to snatch the prize right under his nose. He therefor orders his assault marines forward leading them in a headlong assault at the fortress. Even though the walls has been breached, there are still defenders on the walls able to fire, and the 4th take heavy casualties while closing in - exposed and after daybrake.
Both companies rushes towards the center of the fortress, aiming to take out the commander and force the rest of the enemies to surrender. The 4th manages to get there first, as the 9th are held up by heavier resistance. However just as they kill the commander and his body guards, the 9th arrive. The commander of the 9th loses it, as the loss of almost half his company (mainly to friendly fire) has been for nothing, and charges at the 4th commander. His marines follow him in, and as they are still numerically superior to the small assault force of the 4th, they kill them all after a short and bloody fight (insert fitting duel between the commanders - 4th gets killed and 9th mortally wounded).
Outside the rest of the 4th company can hear this and of course gets outraged. They resume the firing on the fortress, killing surrendering enemies and marines of the 9th alike with indiscriminate fire. Unable to carry on fighting, the 9th commander orders his marines to retreat, but doesn't make it out alive himself. In fact less than 30 percent of the marines makes it out alive, and heads for their thunderhawks to take them off planet. After a short chase the 4th lets them escape, in order to get to their dead commander and brothers in the fortress.
Both companies rebuild afterwards - both blaiming the other part, and none of them willing to accept any mediation from the command council.

Was it something like this you inteded? Feel free to use it if you like it - it does need a lot of work on wording and details, but I think it is a good frame.

Azhrahg.

Aun'aart'al
01-11-2005, 15:12
while I do like it and appreciate the work you put into it, it does sound like what happened regarding the Dark Angels..

Khaine's Messenger
01-11-2005, 15:57
ok, so! I want my custom Chapters' 4th and 9th company to have this rivalry/strong hatred towards each other, and as of This_Moment, Im looking towards say.. 1 company destroys an ork rok while the other company was on it, killing the entire company

The idea that marines would purposefully do such a thing is more than a little daft, imho, even if they're Iron Hands or Space Wolves, with all their internecine bickering. Further, annihilating fellow Space Marines, even by way of accident, should probably bring great shame on the perpetrator, so it wouldn't be as simple as a mere rivalry or strong ill will (like the Iron Hands have towards the Raven Guard/Sallies), and I doubt a re-formed company would bear much of a grudge, especially if punitive measures have been handed out appropriately.

In a less-than-ideal situation, one can dream up any manner of scenarios in which one company's worth of Marines could annihilate another with resultant grudge. The Iron Hands/Sallies/Raven Guard is a good model--one company is doing something (possibly something heroically stupid because they believe their honor demands them to do it) in the face of overwhelming odds while another is paving the way to get the heck out of dodge (because, honor-bound though Space Marines are, every Space Marine is a precious weapon in the Emperor's arsenal, and they are painfully aware of that...), and the leaders of both companies are absolutely convinced that if both companies had worked together in their respective pursuits, then much less blood overall would have been shed, and the victors would have been even more glorious. This divergence could become even more extreme given the "reserve" nature of the 9th company. The "destroying a Rok" idea (possibly also "cleansing a Hulk") is good for this purpose.

Whether they would come to blows about it is debateable; naturally, if that's your choice, then that's how it can be, but it could very well reflect itself in fundamental self-reinforcing temperaments in each company's command echelons that could definately lead to a shouting match and yet more crossed purposes. Overt hostilities are too obvious a dimension for conflict....

Aun'aart'al
01-11-2005, 20:37
well that sure was a long way of saying "Im not much for this idea" :rolleyes: lol

but lets say that the Hulk/Rok idea is used.. wouldnt it have to be a massive Rok for a company's worth of marines to be destroyed? (Ive never played BFG, so I dont know how realistic Fluff-wise it would be on the sort of Rok that would require a full Company to be on it, if not 3/4 of the Company)

Azhrahg
02-11-2005, 07:10
while I do like it and appreciate the work you put into it, it does sound like what happened regarding the Dark Angels..

Not sure what you mean here - the Dark angels hasn't been in a situation like this, as their fight against them selfs happened when part of them turned to chaos and ambushed the others. If you mean the dark angel vs space wolf debacle, where the two primarchs came to blows afterwards I can see a bit of resemblence. However here there was no direct fighting between the to legions except for the primarchs and that was a fist fight.

However if you don't like it it's not a problem. I wrote it up in two minutes while on lunch break, and I like writing fluff, so no hurt feelings.

Azhrahg

Achilles
02-11-2005, 09:59
why not make it simply so that the 9th company destroyed something the 4th were honourbound to do?
and then the captain of the 4th got angry and killed the captain of the 9th... which would prob get him excommunicated.
that would have them annoyed at eachother for millenia... but still fighting in the same chapter

Aun'aart'al
02-11-2005, 19:56
I got this idea during history class when I wasnt paying attention (surprise surprise :rolleyes: ) but, what if..?

some sergeants or marines or whatever in the 4th Company started to question their "religion" ? something to think about