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burtnernie
17-07-2008, 13:47
Sorceress - level 4, scroll, the 6" movement thingie, the dark ring.

2 x repeater bolt throwers

1 war hydra

10 crossbowmen

20 corsairs full command

5 dark riders

20 black guard full command, with the named champion and the banner of d3 combat res.

Hero on Manticore, with cloak of the hag (silly good) halberd, heavy armour, shield.

6 cold one riders.


Thoughts?

Wargamejunkie
17-07-2008, 14:08
How many points is that.

Looks rather small

Mad Doc Grotsnik
17-07-2008, 14:12
I'd sooner take 2 Hydras than half and half with Bolt Throwers. Far more reliable, and a lot tougher to put down.

I've been running two Hydras for some years now, and they were rock even before their not inconsiderable boost.

burtnernie
17-07-2008, 14:56
Not as small as it could be.

Sorceress is a must imho.

I like the 2 hydra idea, but shootie helps take down that dragon or bloke on top and thin ranks down much earlier. Also will be helpful vs the pesky VC's.

The army has to have the black guard imho, they are rock hard, especially for 13 points. You have to take the 3 core and I went with corsairs rather than normal spearmen as they offer more protection for the spell wench. She can't go in the BG as they are unbreakable with the character.

I do have a manticore in there with hero that is 330 points, which is also a big chunk, but rather nasty and harder to pick of the top with the sexy cape.

It gives me good magic, shooting, speed, manouvrability and combat options which in my experience at the GT is what you need. As you can compete in every phase.

But will take opinions ofc, like the 2nd hydra... I suppose you save 30 points there too...

Mad Doc Grotsnik
17-07-2008, 15:04
Don't forget, Breath Weapons can March and Fire, and Monsters with Handlers move as Skirmishers.

Totally rock hard unit right there!

Malekith Fist
17-07-2008, 17:12
Opinion-nothing more.
Even with the new book, seems MSU is still the way to go. I've had decent luck with BG @ 10. I'd opt for more DR, and put the sorc on steed with them.
DA at d.net mentioned combo charging with Manti. While the sorc is in combat she can use the familiar (popping out behind charged unit) to get spells off. Tried it and had some degree of success.

The new hydras are nice, but I prefer 2 RBT with just one.
Keep this in mind with my opinion: I'd rather choke on vomit than play in a GT.
Good luck though.

Archaon
17-07-2008, 17:31
Why sink so many points in a lv.4 Sorceress without additional magical support?

She won't do much against a balanced counter-magic element in the opponents force (a scroll caddy at the minimum and his own ban dice).

I can't really see a coherent force.. you have almost everything but in pieces. Yes.. infantry became cheaper but it is still not that cheap and they are not that well protected.
Your knights are barebone from the look of it and didn't really get an improvement from what i hear.
What is a single DR unit for? It will either get shot to pieces quickly and thus not effective or they will only harrass the enemy for very little effect.
20 Black Guard.. ok, they seem to be worthwile in the new edition but why 20? Big points sink and still vulnerable to shooting and flank charges.
What's the hero on Manticore for as you 2nd hero choice? As a warmachine hunter he's too expensive and as a support attacker for the infantry he's too valuable and you have to keep him out of sight because it might happen that he gets the Manticore shot out from under him (happened may times to me).

I doubt even with the new boost that army won't do very well at a GT.. nice list for friendly laid back games but not for a competitive environment.

volair
17-07-2008, 17:50
Sorceress - level 4, scroll, the 6" movement thingie, the dark ring.

2 x repeater bolt throwers

1 war hydra

10 crossbowmen

20 corsairs full command

5 dark riders

20 black guard full command, with the named champion and the banner of d3 combat res.

Hero on Manticore, with cloak of the hag (silly good) halberd, heavy armour, shield.

6 cold one riders.


Thoughts?

For a tournament my core would consist of 3 squads of dark riders. Not sure yet if Crossbows are worth it for them (any comments on this anyone?).

I agree that two hydras would be better for rare choices.

Black Guard I would run in two or three ranks with a bigger frontage. Not sure exactly yet if it should be 6 or 7 wide frontage. My army is going to consist of 2 medium sized black guard squads as the only ranked infantry. One squad having the character that makes them unbreakable and the armor piercing banner, and the other having the ASF banner and Ring of Hotek.

For the lord and heroes I would use Malekith on a dragon and 1 or 2 Sorceresses each on a Dark Pegasus. That gives you a rediculously powerful magic phase and a third monster to go along with the Hydras. Combined with Chillwind and possibly Dark Rider Crossbow fire your opponents Cannons will be insufficient to stop them all.

I haven't calculated the points so don't know if all of that would be 2000 or 2500.

DullMentalRacket
17-07-2008, 21:00
Why sink so many points in a lv.4 Sorceress without additional magical support?



from what ive been hearing, a lvl 4 will work on her own. You can get up to 10-12 power dice all on her own.

will have to try her out, but its not as crazy as you think.

burtnernie
17-07-2008, 21:53
Well I have been to 2 GT's and qualified both times, 1st time I finished 23rd in the finals, 2nd didn't bother going as none of my mates qualified.

1st time with dwarves, before the thorek beardiness and second time with spirit army, both times ppl said not a GT army, but I done well.

The malekith on dragon btw is 900 odd points, add all the other stuff you said and maybe be at 3000 points not 2000, I made that mistake in writing the lists.

The hydras, yeah all well and good but hochland long rifles will pick them out with ease. Plenty of empire lists there for sure last time.

the 5 dark riders, flanking and war machine bashers, also a cheap screen for other troops. Magic witch can hold her own at level 4, with ease.

The Black Guard give the 3 rank and banner niceness, so why take less than 20?

Bolt Throwers are amazing, I watched my mates 2 take out 2 giants in 2 turns, wouldn't might negating that from my opponents..

But horses for courses, hell I beat a tooled up VC list with O&G's at the w/e so will be testing it this weekend and let you all know how I do....

Everyone has different opinions as to how they would use stuff too, so not disrespecting or saying "people are talking crap" above just relaying my reasoning.

Hope all cool..

Mad Doc Grotsnik
18-07-2008, 14:00
You can't Hochland Hydra Handlers if you din't have LoS. Stand them behind the Beast, and all is well.

AUN'SHI
18-07-2008, 14:56
I agree with having the black Gaurd but a unit of 20 is pretty pricey. IMO id say make BG unit of 15 and give them the asf banner

and I agree with half in half (rbt and hydra) is not the best imo so either go 2 hydras or 4 rbt's

volair
18-07-2008, 15:38
The malekith on dragon btw is 900 odd points, add all the other stuff you said and maybe be at 3000 points not 2000, I made that mistake in writing the lists.

The hydras, yeah all well and good but hochland long rifles will pick them out with ease. Plenty of empire lists there for sure last time.




Wow I didn't realise Malekith on a Dragon would be so expensive. Maybe just a high sorceress on a dark pegasus would be best.

It isn't particularly easy for hydras to be picked off by shooting. They are comparably resilient and it is actually more efficient to fire at dark elf elite infantry than it is to fire at hydras. Even if the Hydras do die they are likely to at the very least get a breath weapon off and cause a few terror tests each.

Between sorceresses on dark pegasi, dark riders, black guard, and hydras, I would say even if you fire and kill one element, the other elements will be deadly. Dark Elves are definitely hurt bad by shooting though, but they may be able to hurt the shooting enemies so bad first that there would be less that can shoot at them.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
18-07-2008, 15:56
Oh, one bummer about the Hydra. Only the Beasty itself counts for Victory Points.

No more handlers scuttling off into the woods for me then :(

burtnernie
18-07-2008, 16:15
Going to try the list this w/e, so will let you know.

Will have a look at the 15 BG instead of 20 and see where it leads, it gives me an extra 65 points which is not alot, maybe a unit of harpies I guess... or 2 extra cold ones.

Will report back