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View Full Version : Protecting VC BSB vs. all comers



Andrew Luke
17-07-2008, 15:04
OK, heres my conundrum. Ppl tend to gun for my BSB, with good reason. I run a magic heavy VC list, so I am avoiding the obvious choice of Dread Knight as I don't want to sacrifice power dice/magic level. Help me pick a setup:

Dark Acolyte, Avatar, Walachs: 2+armour, 5+ ward, still a lvl2, pricey

Dread Knight, Walachs, Walking Death: 1+/5+ +2 CR. Really nice kit, but breaks the strategy I am going for.

Dark Acolyte, LotD, Dispell Scroll, Gem Of Blood or Nightshroud. This is what I am leaning towards, as it sticks with my game plan and what he really fears are attacks from elite infantry and monsters (Champion challenges any nasty characters and then is risen in my turn). The nightshroud lets him get 3 attacks on the three guys in BTB, hopefully killing at least one. Whereas the Gem should be good to stop 1 wound as well, so they are really about equal in most terms, so I can't really pick.


So what do you think? Have any other ideas?

blurred
17-07-2008, 18:00
They're actually shooting your BSB? Best protection for him is to keep him in a unit. ;)

Cromenon
17-07-2008, 18:08
Why not Dark Acolyte, LotD, Walachs, nightmare? 3+/5+, not so pricey and that's what you're looking for... also, as blurred said, keep him in a unit: remember you can still benefit from the look out sir! rule when you are mounted and you are in an infantry unit...

Andrew Luke
17-07-2008, 18:53
He is always in a unit, normally grave guard, just like all my weedy casting vamps. Sorry, 'gunning for' is American slang for 'trying to kill' not literally shooting at him!

As for [Dark Acolyte, LotD, Walachs, nightmare? 3+/5+] Thats a pretty solid and creative set up Cromenon, and could look cool. My currently painted BSB model is on foot, but I will play test that set up soon, as I think it could make for a cool model if I can find a neat, unbarded mount for him...

The question at hand for the moment tho, as I have a game to play in three hours and my list all set up with the third option, is: Which is better, Night Shroud or Gem of Blood? :-D

Malorian
17-07-2008, 21:38
Why not just keep him in the ghoul bunker?

A BSB casty vampire is just not suppose to be in the front ranks.

semersonp
17-07-2008, 22:34
i always give my bsb the drakenhof banner + dark acolyte/lord of the dead...

throw him in corner of lord's unit of skellies...

lord's protection in cc, look out sir for shooting and 4+ regen...

perdurable!

Caffran9
18-07-2008, 06:49
I take a Wight King as my BSB. T5 helps a lot. Is it completely out of the question to consider a Whight as your BSB?

If you're going with the Vampire then Walach's + Nightmare seems solid as it lets you still take those important caster friendly vampire powers.

Lord Khabal
18-07-2008, 07:20
Agreed. Whight King on barded nightmare with regen banner is really tricky to kill.

Jerrus
18-07-2008, 11:04
Dread Knight, LotD (or Summon Ghouls) and Drakenhof Banner: 2+/regen and +1 casting on Invocation of Nehek

Andrew Luke
18-07-2008, 13:11
My Vampires are always in the front ranks, they thirst for Blood! :-D
The BSB in the grave guard was actually the only unit that performed poorly in last nights game versus a playtest list for Grom's horde. (T4 gobbos w/ great weapons and stupidity, undead gobbos w/ blowpipes, forest gobbos w/ poison, other hilarious stuff) They were crushed by incredible rolling from spider riders! This left my BSB all alone, so he snuck around, only to be hit by an irresistable Brain Bursta on turn 5! This of course did two wounds, and my Gem of Blood rolled a 1! So its back to the drawing board...

I like the idea of the Wight King. The one time I tested one though, I always felt short on magic. This was before I was taking the skull staff though... I always seems to roll absolute **** for my spells on my lvl 2 vampires(1,5 and 1,6 last game :(), so now that my Lord is casting the vital spells with some regularity I might try the WK again.

I actually really like the idea of Dread Knight, and think the Blood Knight models look great and would make good heroes, but I still worry about casting...

Regen Banner of Duhm is really awesome, and was made to go in my GG graveguard, but its a bit of a no-brainer, so I will probably leave it out for awhile.

Casty Lord as usual
Wight King BSB, barded Nightmare, nightshroud
Vampire 1, DA, LotD, Rod of Flaming Death
Vampire 2, Avatar of Death (GW), Dark Acolyte, Book of Arkhan

I wil have to shave some points to get the Wight King into my list, Swapping my wraiths for a Varghulf should do it, but I think I still have enough PD at 2250 to be considered Magic Heavy.

sulla
18-07-2008, 13:24
I take a Wight King as my BSB. T5 helps a lot. Is it completely out of the question to consider a Whight as your BSB?

If you're going with the Vampire then Walach's + Nightmare seems solid as it lets you still take those important caster friendly vampire powers.

I agree. T5, 2+ save, 3 wounds and a few killing blow attacks are enough defense to dissade me from going after the BSB most of the time. You should be getting 75% of your casting from a supermage lord anyway IMO. He's the only guy you will need to bunker then. The rest of the characters can be front-liners.

luckyguy
19-07-2008, 14:52
I have been using Wight King BSB as well. The T5 with 3 Wounds is very solid. Also include the expensive Drakenhof banner. I put him in a unit of Grave Guard. Very difficult to kill.

If I don't use the banner I usually give him the gem of blood.

semersonp
19-07-2008, 15:18
hmm, with a wight king bsb don't you miss that extra caster? for a mere 25 points more even...

i'll admit its a fine choice but for my playstyle... yet one more invocation, yet one more model without a silly helmet :)

luckyguy
19-07-2008, 16:53
It certainly does depend on your play style and how magic heavy you want to be. The original poster did indicate a magic heavy army and the wight king does go against that as you will have one less caster. It will certainly require sacrific of magic level/power dice.

My current list with three vampires I generate 10 power dice (often 11 with black periapt). However I prefer to put some of my bloodline and magic item points into combat oriented powers/items. I think my magic phase is fairly potent but balanced with some good close combat as well. It has been working very well for me.

That is one of the nice things with the current VC book. There are enough options to accomidate more than one style of play.

Andrew Luke
19-07-2008, 20:31
Yeah, my casty lord is a must. He actually could carry the army on his own, no problem, but as soon as I run into 5-6 DD or more, problems crop up and I can't get my summoning off :( My other vamps honestly never get anything of value off. Even when they want to cast IoN to heal themselves, they usually need 2 dice to guarantee it goes off, doesn't get dispelled. I realized all they really do is give me enough dice/bounds to scare my opponent. I think If I can stuff a vamp with the Rod of flaming death, and my current GW vamp with the book, their 2 dice and bounds can be enough to let my lord be free to cast what he wishes... Stuffing in a wight king BSB with Drakenhoff might be tough.... I think the 10 ablative wounds of GG I could buy with those points spent on the Regen might be better....

sulla
20-07-2008, 00:36
hmm, with a wight king bsb don't you miss that extra caster? for a mere 25 points more even...

i'll admit its a fine choice but for my playstyle... yet one more invocation, yet one more model without a silly helmet :)

To tell the truth, a lvl4 lord caster with the skull staff and summon ghouls is just about enough magic to win the game on his own. Chuck a cart, the black periapt and book of arkhan into the rest of your army and any extra casting you get is usually just bullying your opponent.

You won't miss the extra vamp hero with that kind of set up.

luckyguy
20-07-2008, 01:36
Stuffing in a wight king BSB with Drakenhoff might be tough.... I think the 10 ablative wounds of GG I could buy with those points spent on the Regen might be better....


Yeah, the banner is not cheap. Not sure how many points you play. I would have trouble fitting it into a 2000 point list. I do use it in a unit of 20 grave guard at 2250 points.