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SneakyChris
17-07-2008, 17:07
Heard a bit about this from a staff member, is it true and does anyone know who is buying it?

penguin663
17-07-2008, 17:11
:wtf: I haven't heard anything from any of the staff at my local. Hasbro tried to buy them a few years back but that went @^% up and GW tried to buy them, atleast that what I was told.

Dwarf Supreme
17-07-2008, 17:19
Ah yes, the old rumor about Hasbro buying GW surfaces again. It'll never happen. GW has such a small market share relatively speaking, I can't imagine Hasbro being seriously interested in GW.

I've never heard the rumor about GW buying Hasbro. Where would GW get the money? Hasbro is huge in comparison to GW.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
17-07-2008, 17:24
Actually, GW holds a massive chunk of it's market. Even if the market is tiny.

What put Hasbro off was the running costs of the shops. Not enough profit margin.

But they could be. Perhaps a Management Buyout to get off the Stock Market?

lanrak
17-07-2008, 17:43
Hi.
As much as I would like to see GW under 'studio' control again.
I belive that if GW share price drops too far , asset strippers are more likley to grab a bargain before the managment could effect a buy out.:eek:

Chasing the 'pocket money pound' with a churn a burn attitude towards its target demographic has just about killed the soul of GW.IMO.
(We know how great the studio staff can be when not shackled to corperate marketing directives...'well what can we sell with your new rules ?')

In my ideal world GW staff would buy the company back , and go back to being a games company .(GAMES WORKSHOP)
Rather than just selling toy soldiers at the expence of everything else!(Citadel Minatures by another name, as now.)

But I lement the day GAMES WORKSHOP turned into GW PLC.:cries:
TTFN
Lanrak.

Gaebriel
17-07-2008, 17:55
... Hasbro tried to buy them a few years back but that went @^% up and GW tried to buy them, atleast that what I was told.

GW (http://www.londonstockexchange.com/en-gb/pricesnews/prices/system/detailedprices.htm?sym=GB0003718474GBGBXSEQ1037184 7GAW) buying Hasbro (http://www.nyse.com/about/listed/has.html)? That's a good one... :D


... I belive that if GW share price drops too far , asset strippers are more likley to grab a bargain before the managment could effect a buy out.:eek: ...
What would attract asset strippers? The IP perhaps, but would it be worth £40m+ on the spot?

lanrak
17-07-2008, 18:04
Hi Gabriel.
Do GW own buildings or just rent them?
I mean the HQ building,WW, and production facilities etc, not the B&M stores which are rented,obviously.

And how much could a GW managment buy out afford?
20 mill?

And at this point,( if real estate is included,) asset strippers could dive in a nd make a profit.

Just pure speculation.
(Because we can ,:D)

TTFN
Lanrak.

Griefbringer
17-07-2008, 18:05
Would the GW management even have enough dough between them to do a buyout?

Mad Doc Grotsnik
17-07-2008, 18:08
Possibly, possibly not. But I'm sure they could get backers. Very few Management Buyouts are performed entirely out their own pockets.

Gaebriel
17-07-2008, 18:21
Do GW own buildings or just rent them?
I mean the HQ building,WW, and production facilities etc, not the B&M stores which are rented,obviously.
...
Interesting question indeed.

I guess they own their headquarters and production facilities in Nottingham and that production facility in Memphis.

The production machinery which is said to be of older tech, and those design machines which are supposed to be brand new.

Probably a small motor pool.

What they aquired in Memphis and in new machinery would have had to come out of the profits of the last couple of years?

BigRob
17-07-2008, 18:22
How many members does Warseer have and how much can they raise between them. At least if Warseer owned GW it'd stop all the moaning about the corperate beancounters :D

Mad Doc Grotsnik
17-07-2008, 18:23
Am pretty sure they own their HQ buildings. IIRC, it was purpose built when the moved out there.

Foolish Mortal
17-07-2008, 18:35
Gw's share prices seem to have gone up a lot in the last few days.

Does this mean that there half yearly figures were good, or at least better than they could have been? If so does this make them a more attractive proposition?

I'm not really sure what to make of this - is this from a shop staffer, or 'higher up'?

I've only been on warseer for a short while, but MDG seems to be the kind of guy who doesn't talk C**p just to be heard, but we also come to the old argument about 'what do staffers know'?

I shall watch this with interest

Mad Doc Grotsnik
17-07-2008, 18:41
Former Staffer! Haven't worked for them for around 3 years. Might be 4 actually. Hard to remember after a while! ;)

Though, I'd imagine if there was a buyout, the Financial Commentators on websites and that would have mentioned it. It might be a small market, but when the big fish gets gobbled up, people notice. In purely relative Terms, GW are to Wargaming what Microsoft are to Software.

TheLionReturns
17-07-2008, 18:41
As the share price falls the company becomes a more attractive proposition for a buyout. However, current economic conditions means credit is hard to come by so any buyer would have to be flush with cash one would assume. The question, therefore, is who would be interested in buying GW who is flush with cash? Do Hasbro fall into this category?

ankara halla
17-07-2008, 19:02
Gw's share prices seem to have gone up a lot in the last few days.

Does this mean that there half yearly figures were good, or at least better than they could have been? If so does this make them a more attractive proposition?

A lot? Well, I guess... (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=GAW.L&t=3m&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=) But as can be seen from that three month graph, somebody bought a total of ~200,000 shares (very roughly £250,000 worth) after which the price stopped it's dive and allmost immediatly afterwards another ~100,000 were bought, which naturally raised the price a bit more. It is afterall the biggest business the shares have seen since the previous half year results were published!

Anyhoo, the whole thing automatically doesn't mean or say anything, but I'd imagine there are institutions/induviduals who expect/hope to see GW get their act together and start showing some profits and thus invested a bit in the hopes the results are positive.
And even though I don't have a single cent invested in GAW, I share these hopes, as unrealistic as they may be...

Mad Doc Grotsnik
17-07-2008, 19:10
I think they are getting their act together.

Latest Warhammer Armies have been sublime, in terms of content, models and rules. 5th Edition, in my opinion at least, is a massive improvement just by ditching VPs.

Now all they need to do is dust of Specialst Games, and it's pretty much all done.

Temprus
17-07-2008, 19:17
Considering GW made almost twice as much as WotC did last year, I could see why Hasbro would at least be interested in GW. ;) Hasbro is known for not wanting subsidiary owned storefronts though. Considering Hasbro made at least 16 times as much as GW did last year, I doubt they could buy Hasbro out. :angel:

ankara halla
17-07-2008, 19:25
@MDG

The thing is though, that while the studio is getting arguably better (and there are lot's of valid arguments to be made against the studio too...) it doesn't automatically correlate to the business side of things.

There are a ton of companies that produce crap products year after year but are good at business and thus soldier on, as even industry leaders in some cases.
However, companies that fail at the business side of things, no matter how good their products, are never healthy.

Klam
17-07-2008, 19:31
Blizzard could buy GW tho since they are changing too nowadays...

catbarf
17-07-2008, 19:40
Blizzard could buy GW tho since they are changing too nowadays...

Oh dear god no. Don't even suggest it.

ankara halla
17-07-2008, 19:53
Yeah, Bill Gates could do it too. You know, not for Microsoft, but for himself... or any one of those oil sultans and oligarkhs.

Heck, a person with enough means and resources might do it for a lack of better judgement, but why would a company? GW seriously has little else going for it except their IP (which they seem to be strangling themself for some reason...). Their production facilities, general property and wares aren't anything that couldn't be bought for cheaper elsewhere, and who'd wan't to buy a struggling toy company when it's whole consumer base is in- or about to hit recession? Certainly not for it's wares...

If GW fail to turn a profit in the next two years, and it's stock goes near 100, then I might consider a corporate buy out possible, maybe.

Onidan
17-07-2008, 20:21
Blizzard could buy GW tho since they are changing too nowadays...

Oh god, I can imagine what would happen...

A large army of Greenskins gets ready to defend against a dwarven force.

The Orks:
"WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAit, can´t we discuss this with a nice cup of soup?"

VetSgtNamaan
17-07-2008, 21:39
It does not matter how much your sales were if you have too narrow a profit margin. Though I could see a computer gaming company trying to buy GW to get the IP rights then shutting everything else down. Though even then it would be a long shot since as people have said profit margins on minatures are not high.

Foolish Mortal
18-07-2008, 08:02
Former Staffer! Haven't worked for them for around 3 years. Might be 4 actually. Hard to remember after a while! ;)

Though, I'd imagine if there was a buyout, the Financial Commentators on websites and that would have mentioned it. It might be a small market, but when the big fish gets gobbled up, people notice. In purely relative Terms, GW are to Wargaming what Microsoft are to Software.

@MDG

Sorry, I didn't phrase my post very well - I was really giving you a compliment :).

When I said 'what do staffers know', I was meaning the staffer you heard it from & whether he'd be in a position to know about such things.

Apologies again if this came across wrong.

blongbling
18-07-2008, 10:04
there has been no announcement of a buyout attempt by anyone, which is a requirement when you reach a certain point. GW has a lot of longterm investors who havent yet wanted to sell up.

these investors have stated that they want to buy more GW shares as they see it as a good long term investment.

i wouldnt worry and i certainly wouldnt listen to a full timer in a gw store for what is happening to gw

Plastic Rat
18-07-2008, 11:06
How many members does Warseer have and how much can they raise between them. At least if Warseer owned GW it'd stop all the moaning about the corperate beancounters :D

This is about the scariest thing I've imagined all week. The thought of GW actually run by the Warseer community makes me see the shareholders and the game designers in a whole new light.

Of course there's only one thing scarier than that... GW being bought by Blizzard.

x-esiv-4c
18-07-2008, 11:29
Oh god...Blizzard buying GW? It would be an apocalyptic nerdgasm.

RevEv
18-07-2008, 12:22
This is a regular wind up by staff - often to people they know/suspect to be posters on boards like this.

Mind you, it can lead to some fun suppositions as to which direction GW will go if certain companies take them over.

Anyone for Care Bear Champions of Khorne?

sliganian
18-07-2008, 14:15
Oh god...Blizzard buying GW? It would be an apocalyptic nerdgasm.

And it would be poetic justice for Andy Chambers as well, I expect.....

Ward.
18-07-2008, 14:48
I'm starting to wish I new stuff about buying shares, as I'd love to get some while they're still so low.

Osbad
18-07-2008, 16:29
Anyone for Care Bear Champions of Khorne?

I prefer My Little Pony Marines they ROXXRS!

Mad Doc Grotsnik
18-07-2008, 16:39
Would those be Rending My Little Pony Marines?

The Eldar players are going to flip man.

Brandir
18-07-2008, 19:08
I understand that Hasbro did consider buying out GW some 10 years ago, when they were flush with the initial success of D&D3e.

Nothing since then. GW have never considered buying out Hasbro.

A couple of years ago a UK based software company did consider branching out and buy a tabletop gaming company, thinking that the release of pre painted plastic minis in conjunction with their games would be a good move.

Note that Tom Kirby led a £60 million management buyout of GW in 1991, purchasing the company off Messers Livingstone and Jackson. The company floated in Oct 1994 at 115p a share. I bought 1,000 and still hold them!

starlight
18-07-2008, 19:19
...and sadly after going up to 8x their original value, the share price is right back down to where you bought it at.:(


Good thing it wasn't a retirement plan. ;)

OldMaster
18-07-2008, 19:24
Heck, a person with enough means and resources might do it for a lack of better judgement, but why would a company?


Actually that's a pretty good idea. We can choose one person on the forum as the "president". we all will donate money to them, and eventually he/she whould be able to buy GW and then some issues could be cleared up :D

Of course, I'm just kidding.

Griefbringer
18-07-2008, 19:37
I'm starting to wish I new stuff about buying shares, as I'd love to get some while they're still so low.

Your bank might be able to provide possibility to buy shares through them.

Brandir
18-07-2008, 19:45
...and sadly after going up to 8x their original value, the share price is right back down to where you bought it at.:(


Good thing it wasn't a retirement plan. ;)

Those 1,000 GW shares are still in my portfolio for sentimental reasons. I must of had at least twice their value in dividends over the years; GW has until recently paid quite good dividends to investors.

I was up to 3,400 at one point, but when the price went up to 862p I sold 2,400. Nice profit enabled me to have an absolutely great Christmas in 2003, but I should have waited another month for the peak of 889!

Huw_Dawson
18-07-2008, 19:59
This is wasting valuble retail space on the Oxford Street that is Other GW.

Move along folks, nothing to see here. ;)

- Huw

Mad Doc Grotsnik
18-07-2008, 22:13
Do you think Beale would shut up if he actually bought the company?

Brandir
18-07-2008, 22:32
Do you think Beale would shut up if he actually bought the company?

No.

Would you?

Would anyone?

Even if Mr Abramovich, bored of Chelsea, decided to buy up his favourite tabletop gaming company and give every player everything they wanted for free we would still all whinge on Warseer.

starlight
18-07-2008, 22:39
If I bought GW, I wouldn't whine on Warseer...:p


Bribe Nick perhaps, but not whine here...:p

Mad Doc Grotsnik
18-07-2008, 22:51
Hmmmm.....I feel a thread coming in.

Templar Ben
18-07-2008, 23:52
A lot? Well, I guess... (http://uk.finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=GAW.L&t=3m&l=on&z=m&q=l&c=) But as can be seen from that three month graph, somebody bought a total of ~200,000 shares (very roughly £250,000 worth) after which the price stopped it's dive and allmost immediatly afterwards another ~100,000 were bought, which naturally raised the price a bit more. It is afterall the biggest business the shares have seen since the previous half year results were published!

Anyhoo, the whole thing automatically doesn't mean or say anything, but I'd imagine there are institutions/induviduals who expect/hope to see GW get their act together and start showing some profits and thus invested a bit in the hopes the results are positive.
And even though I don't have a single cent invested in GAW, I share these hopes, as unrealistic as they may be...

They have been a nice price.


Considering GW made almost twice as much as WotC did last year, I could see why Hasbro would at least be interested in GW. ;) Hasbro is known for not wanting subsidiary owned storefronts though. Considering Hasbro made at least 16 times as much as GW did last year, I doubt they could buy Hasbro out. :angel:

The Gross Margin for GW is nice. It would be interesting to see what Hasbro could do to get some efficiency to raise the Net Margin.

I don't know that the return is there for Hasbro to seriously consider taking them on at this point.

weareinalotoftroublebeale
19-07-2008, 02:00
It would be one courageous group or individuals that would take this challenge on if they were bought.

GW are no way safe from a buyout, however unlikly it maybe. However a dramatic change of senior/middle management would be a healthy positive step forward if there was a buyout.

Thanks
Beale

catbarf
19-07-2008, 02:05
This thread reminded me of a movie called The Hudsucker Proxy.

Oh, the ideas...