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SilentTempest
19-07-2008, 15:04
Okay, so I was considering picking up an Empire army as a second army to my Wood Elves. I do love my Wood Elves, but the thought of actually having to maneuver blocks of troops was quite appealing too.

Anyway, the Empire State Troops that I picked up to have a look at were very, very impressive. The detail that they've managed to get onto the plastics is incredible. And all the extra bits and pieces already attached to the bodies... well... darn.

The more I look at them, the more I think that it would take me an age and a half to paint those models, what with all the hourglasses, skulls, parchments, shortswords and whatnot on the models. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the effort that's gone into the sculpts, and they look good, but does anyone else wish that those sorts of things were options on the sprues rather than already stuck on? I've always preferred my troops fairly bitz-less, especially when you've got to put them in blocks where the bitz aren't going to get noticed anyway.

In comparison, I picked up a box of Skaven Clanrats the other day, and the first thing I noticed was the lack of extra "stuff" on the models. No trophies hanging off or anything like that. My first thought was "I'm glad the sculptor considered the poor bugger that's got to build and paint a horde of these... nice and simple..."

So I put it to the people of Warseer, has anyone else ever thought "less would be more" and wished there weren't so many extra details on a model?

OldMaster
19-07-2008, 15:28
Under 50% of my army is actually painted now :P
Painting is the least entertaining part of the hobby, IMO.

zak
19-07-2008, 15:42
Try ranking up those lovely Skaven!! The sculptor didn't think too much about that.

I unlike the last poster really enjoy the painting side of the hobby and find the extra detail isn't a problem. Sure you don't always see the detail in a block, but individually they are very nice and IMHO do look better on the table top.

semersonp
19-07-2008, 15:43
when you paint your minis you are breathing life into inanimate hunks of plastic... you are evoking the existence of humble footsoldiers and grand wizards in the warhammer world, tethered to your table through a well painted model...

take pride in your work... and take time... the better you like your minis the less you will want them to be off the battlefield... your mind will sharpen and your tactics will tighten as you strive to have your beloved models survive...

too much detail? naw... just more i's to lovingly dot...

Chaos Mortal
19-07-2008, 15:52
i certainly agree with semersonp, and once you paint your miniatures youl really apprecciate thre game much more. T the question though, i certainly hope they dont change the quaity of the sculpts as i find GW make the best plastics and that is what draws me to purchase from them almost exclusivey. If you dont care about how they look, buy of ebay where the "pro-painted" title occurs on almost every sale, the truth however is far from that. The point im making is, lets hope they dont change the quality as its fanatastic and if you dont like it buy some of the hundreds of terribly painted minis on ebay.

*note some pro-painted listings really are pro painted and look fantastic, however these sellers generally have a good reputation for such things*

ThousandPlateaus
19-07-2008, 15:55
Try painting Sisters of Battle - particularly the Cannoness!

Personally, I love all the detail, it's what Citadel excel at, really - the Empire range is utterly brilliant.

Chaos Mortal
19-07-2008, 16:06
the empire and wood elf ranges in my oppinion (also the chaos warriors however they can look a bit static) are brilliant.

Dtrik
19-07-2008, 16:08
I love the amount of detail GW puts into some of their recent plastics, especially the bull sprue which is my absolute favorite box GW has put out. There are plenty of left overs and tons and tons of extra bits you can put on, or if you dont like so much detail you can leave them off like all the knives and hunks of meat.

Tohellweride
19-07-2008, 16:19
I think it comes down to what you feel is tabletop ready. I myself have a sizable BoC horde. When i forst started i only put the basic colours on. I really dont feel right fielding a unit that is not painted.
However after a few games i went back and slowly picked out all the finer details such as the teeth on strings and hooks etc hanging off their belts.
Now some people will do the same with the best intentions of going back but never doing so. There is always the shiny new unit to paint.
So find a happy medium like i did would be my advice, units on the table fast and painting becomes less of a chore and something i enjoyed again.

Tarax
19-07-2008, 16:28
I quite agree with SilentTempest. Those extra bits on the models should be extra bits on the sprue. Not everyone wants to have those stuff on their models, specially when it's not part of the background of your army. Middenheim with lots of Sigmar-symbols?

As to painting them, just use some basic colours like black and brown. At least they have a colour and it doesn't take much time to do. If you want, you can always go back and paint them in different colours.

Sometimes I see a new model in WD and think "Wow, that's beautiful!", but when I see the model close up I think "Why did they put all those things on it". I like the buildings they made, but hate all those skulls and death symbols. GW wanted to give a more dark background, which not all gamers want.

ThousandPlateaus
19-07-2008, 16:47
GW wanted to give a more dark background, which not all gamers want.

To be fair, that is their background, though, and the settings of their games.

RossS
19-07-2008, 18:09
I'm not really keen on the new Empire plastics, although it is not for their lack of detail. The detail is there in spades, but the state troops look somewhat ridiculous, encrusted as they are with skulls and other paraphenalia of religious nutiness. Can anyone shed light on why the designers seemed to move the Empire back in the historical timeline? Where are my exaggerated puffy sleeves and offensively enormous codpieces.

I always wanted something like this...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Landsknechte.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Standard_bearer_fighting_against_five_landsk nechts.jpg

J.P. Biff
19-07-2008, 19:08
I'm a fan of detail on centerpiece models but when it comes to the rank and file I fall under the "less is better" category. When I painted my Empire army I hated every moment of it :(. The amount of detail on the regular rank and file just got annoying. I don' mind painting, sometimes I like it, sometimes I don't and in the Empires case... I didn't!! If it weren't for the fact that I was in a "Paint or die" competition I would've never finished it. Now I just want to EBay the whole army... gonna have to find out how that works :confused::D. hahahaha

BTW, for those who don't know what a paint or die is, its a way to get an army painted and on the table in a short amount of time. We say 2000pts of Fantasy in 2 months and all those who fail have to buy all those that succed a battalion. Want motiviation to get it done??? THERE IT IS!!!!!

badgeraddict
19-07-2008, 21:18
I think that the detail on the Bretonnian Knights of the Realm/Errants (including horses) is amazing! It is a good balance between base detail and possible attachments.

I actually like my models to have detail, adds a bit of character I think, which is always good!

Rodman49
19-07-2008, 21:37
I think that the detail on the Bretonnian Knights of the Realm/Errants (including horses) is amazing! It is a good balance between base detail and possible attachments.

I actually like my models to have detail, adds a bit of character I think, which is always good!

I think the actual Knights look terrible and would encourage anyone who collects Bretonnia to look at Gamezone to buy their minis:

http://www.frpgames.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=38781

Kidjal
19-07-2008, 21:41
with a week to go until last weeks Watchman tournament, I had 20 of the new empire swordsmen, 8 knights, 20 old halberdiers, artillery bases and outriders to paint. Managed all that in a week, and I was really happy with the result.

All you have to do is get a process you're comfortable with, and don't force yourself to spend too long painting. If you rush, or you stay up late/work through mealtimes or whatever it will only drag quality down. Keep colour schemes simple for block troopers and the unit will look awesome on the table. This is a particular empire unit trait too.

badgeraddict
19-07-2008, 21:42
See I think that Knight is over the top, but hey! That is just my opinion.

Actually...maybe for character that particular model would be quite good.

The Adept
19-07-2008, 22:08
Try ranking up those lovely Skaven!! The sculptor didn't think too much about that.


Hell yeah. I had to build my clanrats specifically to rank up, positioning each rat to fit with the ones that were already there. Then, I painted numbers on the bottom so I know where they go in the units (which are differentiated by their shields). This means that after each game I've got about half an hour of putting the units back together again!

Nephilim of Sin
19-07-2008, 22:50
Detail is great, so long as it does not actually hinder the model. If it makes it complicated to assemble, rank up, or extremely difficult to do simple conversions, then there is no need for it. I want my models to have plenty of detail, but I agree the option should be there to add that detail as one sees fit (for multi-part plastics, I mean). That is one thing that has put me off Empire....although I would consider buying them just for the monkey.

Try painting Battle for Skull Pass minis, which look excellent, but truly lack a lot of detail (Thunderers; is that a bullet? Why is it twice as thick? Why does the beard merge with the Warriors shields in that way?)

txamil
19-07-2008, 23:10
I just bought bunch of Rackham models and now that I've gotten them out of the package I think they probably have more minute detail than mu skill can handle.

SilentTempest
20-07-2008, 01:45
I think I've been misunderstood a little. While I'm not a GOOD painter, I like painting, and I want to try to do a good job. I'm not one of these people that's likely to buy a pre-painted army, or do a half-arsed job, because it's MY army and I want to be proud of what I'VE done.

Detail is good, but I just wish those extra bits were optional, rather than already stuck on every model.

Ward.
20-07-2008, 02:03
Try ranking up those lovely Skaven!! The sculptor didn't think too much about that.

Quoted for truth.

6 parts with the mold lines in awkward places is another fist shaking point right off the top of my head. I do like the option of putting the extra bits on myself though.

DigbyWeapon
20-07-2008, 04:03
I think the Empire soldiers are in some serious poverty, I mean barefoot is just such a fail for a soldier.

Digby

Rodman49
20-07-2008, 07:28
I think the Empire soldiers are in some serious poverty, I mean barefoot is just such a fail for a soldier.

Digby

Yeah, as a soldier your feet are probably the most important part of your body considering you're on them constantly.

Tarax
20-07-2008, 09:13
To be fair, that is their background, though, and the settings of their games.

I see the game and the background as 2 seperate things.
Yes, the game is set in the background, but that doesn't mean everyone goes for both. Some like the background, some like the game and some like both.
It's every gamers choice to put as much background into the game, but it should leave 'gamers' the option to not to. Bits and pieces can be put seperately onto the sprue instead of directly onto the model and those who want more background can put it on the models.

TheWarSmith
20-07-2008, 15:56
I agree in part that some of the newer models are rather arduous in their amount of detail. Sometimes when I'm painting 50 troops, I wish they didn't have necklaces, trophies, and all that fancy stuff.

To the point about painting. I've found that when I'm not an active painter and I don't have my army in some form of painting progress, all fantasy and 40k to me is a game, and not a hobby. It's when I take that step into painting and modelling that it becomes a fully immersive hobby, and not just some random cool miniatures game that could be easily replaced by an Xbox and the like. Just my 2 cents.

Oh, and to the guy commenting about Rackham. The models are EXCELLENT. Definitely a very European styling to them with all the curves and intracacies. Beautiful models, many of them are.

ZeroTwentythree
21-07-2008, 15:51
I like the kits that have less detail on the figures, but include bits to add to the figures. The way I see it, this makes everybody happy, as you can make the kits as simple or detailed as you want, and everybody likes extra bits for conversions, etc.

Agelmar
23-07-2008, 19:29
In my opinion, GW is just now getting to the point where they have an acceptable amount of detail on their models. The Gamezone link is a good example of what I would prefer for all models.

Pokpoko
23-07-2008, 23:15
Oh, and to the guy commenting about Rackham. The models are EXCELLENT. Definitely a very European styling to them with all the curves and intracacies. Beautiful models, many of them are.were.were.now it's GW-esque pile of plastic that they'r producing.:mad:

anway. i'm all for details, but we must consider the harsh reality of the game. whb is a system where you shove around big blocks of samey models, which isn't best place for detailed fine models. it calls for stocky,durable designs like chaos warriors or saurus warriors, not CB'esque delicate lines and fine detail. heroes and special units are where such things belong in WHB.