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AUN'SHI
21-07-2008, 17:56
Hi all :)

Just a quick one if teclis rolls a double and gets total power however the amount that is rolled does not amount to the casting amount. Will the spell still work or not. I think I read this some where but I couldn't find it. If it is here I apologise as I didn't find it.

Thanks

Loopstah
21-07-2008, 18:11
It says "successful casting roll" so you need to reach the spells casting value for the double to cause IF.

So if the spell was 6+ and you rolled 2 + 2 it wouldn't be cast at all, because that isn't a successful casting roll.

If you rolled 3 + 3 then it would be cast with IF as that is a successful casting roll.

DeathlessDraich
21-07-2008, 18:12
This was asked when the new HE appeared and the same question applies to the Book of Hoeth.

1) The BRB does make a special distinction about "casting successfully" - pg 108 but does not clearly distinguish an "attempt to cast" and "cast" or "casting successfully".

2) Book of Hoeth etc - uses the important phrase "on any successful casting roll"

Therefore a double causes Irresistible force only if the total rolled is equal to or exceed the casting value.

Unwise
21-07-2008, 23:36
What happens if Teclis casts a spell at a unit within 12" of the Ring of Hotek, succeeds and gets a double. One magic item makes it IF, one makes it a miscast.

For the sake of fun, I would make both apply, but what do you folks think? Does miscast overrule IF?

lethlis
21-07-2008, 23:55
page 108 miscasts take priority.

wizuriel
22-07-2008, 01:22
need to check the book but also remeber reading somewhere that IF spells are sucessfully cast even if the roll is less than the casting value

Condottiere
22-07-2008, 02:35
IIRC Miscasts take priority, and IF is ignored.
IF works only if dice cast achieve required threshold.

lethlis
22-07-2008, 04:48
page 107 bottom right, says it is cast successfully with irresistible force.

sulla
22-07-2008, 06:57
need to check the book but also remeber reading somewhere that IF spells are sucessfully cast even if the roll is less than the casting value

Teclis's rule is a little different to the rulebook rule (the one you remember). For teclis's ability he has to roll a double and successfully cast.

Condottiere
22-07-2008, 08:15
IF is achieved, normally, when the wizard rolls a double 6. Since there are no spells with a greater success value than 12, it could be safely said that IF will always successfully cast a spell.

The exceptions would be that special spell of Lord Krokk(?), which IIRC is 14, and the HE BoH and Teclis. But if any other Army Book had the special ability to achieve IF with a similar method, I'd say they still have to achieve the minimum casting value to be successful.

Loopstah
22-07-2008, 09:04
IF is achieved, normally, when the wizard rolls a double 6. Since there are no spells with a greater success value than 12, it could be safely said that IF will always successfully cast a spell.

There are about 4 or 5 spells with values higher than 12+.

The rule for IF is clear that if you roll double 6 the spell is cast with IF regardless of the fact you meet the casting value or not. Double 6 automatically makes the spell work even if it is a 13+ or 14+ spell as the requirement for meeting the casting value is not present.

Teclis/ Book of Hoeth are different in that any double applies as IF as long as you also reach the casting value, because it specifically says so.

Granitearm
22-07-2008, 12:00
IF is achieved, normally, when the wizard rolls a double 6. Since there are no spells with a greater success value than 12, it could be safely said that IF will always successfully cast a spell.

It also comes up if you have a negative modifier to cast, like from the Daemon's Standard of Sundering.

Condottiere
22-07-2008, 13:37
Okay, then I count two instances that are relevant:

1. Banner of Sundering, and

2. Drain Magic (7th HEAB)

So, if I understand this correctly, my DoW Wizard casts Comet of Casandora with 2 die and achieves a double 6 (12), it will succeed despite either one of the above prevailing conditions?

Loopstah
22-07-2008, 13:44
Okay, then I count two instances that are relevant:

1. Banner of Sundering, and

2. Drain Magic (7th HEAB)

So, if I understand this correctly, my DoW Wizard casts Comet of Casandora with 2 die and achieves a double 6 (12), it will succeed despite either one of the above prevailing conditions?

Yes, because IF with double 6 from the BRB does not have "successful casting roll" as part of it's requirements. Just getting the double 6 means the spell is automatically cast successfully regardless of penalties that might mean you got less than required to actually cast the spell.

It also applies to the spells with greater than 12+ casting. (1 Skaven, 1 Nurgle Daemon, 1 Tzeentch Daemon, 1 Lizardmen)

g0ddy
22-07-2008, 18:51
I do recall something last edition (possibly in the old HE faq) that stated IF and the Miscast both occur....

Anyone else remember more details?

~ Zilla

theunwantedbeing
22-07-2008, 19:16
That was in an FAQ that simply doesnt apply to anything in this edition.

I think it was with regards to the ring of hotek and teclis's ability and they rules that both happen. Or some similar item to the ring of hotek.
Either way such a ruling is no longer in effect.

It is impossible for teclis to cast a spell irresistably (or for anyone to do so) when in range of the ring of hotek, as all doubles result in a miscast.

lethlis
23-07-2008, 05:27
It was the book of hoeth

also I think those spells specifically say that the dice removed can prevent IF, not entirely sure though.

DeathlessDraich
23-07-2008, 09:59
That was in an FAQ that simply doesnt apply to anything in this edition.
.

Yes, a 6th ed FAQ - A clash of magical effects is resolved by enforcing both effects or a dice roll if that is not possible.