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Tonberry
23-07-2008, 10:25
Page 162 of the 5th edition rulebook states 'Azgra the Slasher's warband devoured by errant Void Whale'

What is a Void Whale? Is it just a generic term for warp beasty or has it been mentioned before?

Hellebore
23-07-2008, 10:35
I'd say a void whale is precisely what the picture shows it to be - a massive angler fish cross whale that swims through space eating errant ork spacesfleets...

Hellebore

Eulenspiegel
23-07-2008, 10:37
AFAIK it hasn´t been mentioned before.
I think it´s just a creature that was made up on the spot to fill into the rulebook flavour text and to show how dangerous travel in the 40th millennium is.

Chilltouch
23-07-2008, 10:39
A new Warp Bast, large enough to consume an entire fleet. Simple as that.

pookie
23-07-2008, 12:06
they have been mentioned in the Ork Dex iirc, a Ork Warlord claims to have killed one, but for what its worth, its just like the Grynx or Petra Squirel, they are just fillers for background and havent really been expanded on.

Sephiroth
23-07-2008, 13:35
Aka, a Farscape 'Boodong'. :p

baphomael
23-07-2008, 14:14
they have been mentioned in the Ork Dex iirc, a Ork Warlord claims to have killed one, but for what its worth, its just like the Grynx or Petra Squirel, they are just fillers for background and havent really been expanded on.

Not quite, some of them have quite detailed info :p Back in the Day, rogue trader had a bestiary section that gave fluff and descriptions for all kinds of weird creatures (grynx and ptera-squirrel were among them) such as Grox, Enslavers, brain-leafs, barking toads, catachan devils, that weird tea-towel creature that attaches itself to people's faces (forget the name, but an awesome concept :p) Shockingly, a carthorse had a higher toughness than a space marine.

borithan
23-07-2008, 14:53
Well, I think Space Marins were not quite imagined as they became to be. I think they were more altered to reach superior, but totally human, bodies... Then they gradually (or quickly) became the pretty much superhumans that they are viewed as now. Hell, their armour was no better than carapace armour, except that it didn't slow them down, and had a built in respirator, radio and eye protection.

Brother Siccarius
23-07-2008, 15:04
Not quite, some of them have quite detailed info :p Back in the Day, rogue trader had a bestiary section that gave fluff and descriptions for all kinds of weird creatures (grynx and ptera-squirrel were among them) such as Grox, Enslavers, brain-leafs, barking toads, catachan devils, that weird tea-towel creature that attaches itself to people's faces (forget the name, but an awesome concept :p) Shockingly, a carthorse had a higher toughness than a space marine.


they have been mentioned in the Ork Dex iirc, a Ork Warlord claims to have killed one, but for what its worth, its just like the Grynx or Petra Squirel, they are just fillers for background and havent really been expanded on.

You're talking about Badrukk's background.

Aside from that there's mention in several other places to "void sharks".

Chilltouch
23-07-2008, 15:15
There are thousands of different Warp entities. It isn't just Daemons out there - it's a whole new ecosystem filled with millions of species, with different sorts of land masses just like reality has.

borithan
23-07-2008, 15:32
Is there any real suggestion is is necessarily a warp creature? Couldn't it be a normal space dwelling organism?

Alessander
23-07-2008, 17:20
Grynx had a model, actually. Rare model, look on sole legends.

Chilltouch
23-07-2008, 17:31
Well, it is supposed to be one of the reason why -warp travel- is so dangerous.

Shibboleth
23-07-2008, 17:31
Is there any real suggestion is is necessarily a warp creature? Couldn't it be a normal space dwelling organism?I didn't think of it as a warp creature either. To me 'Void' means open space.

chaos0xomega
23-07-2008, 18:06
Considering that Orks don't utilize warp travel(or at least they didn't as of 4th edition), I don't see how it could possibly be a warp-entity.

Not only that, but it's a "Void" whale, void has always been used to refer to space, not the warp.

And I was just about to post this very same thread...

I think I'm going to have to sculpt one tbh, it looks so kickass! It just needs an apoc datasheet :D

Slaaneshi Slave
23-07-2008, 18:12
Of course Orks utilise Warp Travel. How do you think they travel around? ;)

If the Void Whale were materium based there is no way it could eat an entire fleet, as it would be massively too slow / small.

Chilltouch
23-07-2008, 18:17
Orks can salvage and use anything the Imperium can. Including Warp reactors.

Also, it's GW. They use cool words as the prefix for anything. Void sounds all cool and mystical - hey, why not use it to describe this new beasty?

Lothlanathorian
23-07-2008, 18:21
Void is space. That is how I see it. I second the Boodong theory. And what the crap makes you think it would have to be slow? Or even small? Have you ever seen a real whale? Contrary to your belief system, they are large and fast.

Lotan
23-07-2008, 18:21
If the Void Whale were materium based there is no way it could eat an entire fleet, as it would be massively too slow / small.

WTF!!! Why couldn't something that big exist in space! This is 40k! There's warp tavel and daemons and the only thing you question on realism is gigantic fleet slurping cetaceans ! OMG.....

Slaaneshi Slave
23-07-2008, 18:27
I have no doubt it could be large. Large enough to eat an entire fleet? Not a chance. Why would it even have a mouth if it were a normal beast in space? A space beasty would eat either absorbing radiation from a star, or by actually eating planets. The thing wouldn't be able to survive if it simply ate stuff, as something large enough to eat a fleet would need stupendous amounts of energy, which it wouldn't be able to gain in dark space. If it fed by absorbing radiation, it wouldn't be able to eat a fleet, as it would have no mouth or digestive system.

The Void Whale is a Warp beast.

static grass
23-07-2008, 18:33
I have no doubt it could be large. Large enough to eat an entire fleet? Not a chance.

Well the new rule book says you are 100% wrong. So who should we believe? The canon rule book written by GW? Or you random poster on teh interwebs?

Slaaneshi Slave
23-07-2008, 18:35
Yes, it says it ate a fleet. Now read my post again and see where I stated logically reasons why it ate it in the warp. A Nurgling can eat a fleet in the warp so long as it's gellar fields are down.

Lothlanathorian
23-07-2008, 18:35
There is the Slaaneshi Slave I know!:p A reasonable argument I can not beat. Wait...what's this...an ace hidden in my sleeve? YES!1 Rule of Cool:D


Yes, Slaaneshi Slave, you are very right and I whole heartedly agree with your logic, but this is GW. Why are you arguing with logic?

Logarithm Udgaur
23-07-2008, 19:14
Most earth whales eat some of the smallest sea creatures in existance, plankton. Contrary to popular belief, deep space is not empty, it only seems so in realation to the size if it, much like the ocean. I see no reaon why a Viod Whale could not feed on the detrius floating around in space.


Yes, it says it ate a fleet. Now read my post again and see where I stated logically reasons why it ate it in the warp. A Nurgling can eat a fleet in the warp so long as it's gellar fields are down.

Slaaneshi Slave
23-07-2008, 19:30
And how would it travel? It would have to expel more material to move about that it could possible gain by eating the tiny amount of rubbish there is out there. If there is not enough stuff to regularly take stuff in orbit around earth, how little stuff is there out in the middle of nowhere? Also, of that stuff, how much is rock / other non organic stuff, and how much is actually edible? No, a beasty could not survive by eating space dust between the stars.

LostTemplar
23-07-2008, 19:44
Its... A Tyranid bio construct. Evidently. I mean. They also eat ships, and fly through normal space. Oh, and they are organic too.

Seriously.

Why is this Void Whale so hard to imagine? You have biollions upon billions of tyranid life forms, under one conscience, transcending the inter-galatic space, to eat soemone else's galaxy just 'cause they're hungry. And a void whale, that eats entires fleets, made out of debries and lunacy (and the belief that they'll go faster if painted red), is... Hard to imagine?

Its just Moby dick. In space!.

Chilltouch
23-07-2008, 20:13
Rule of cool can also be used of the definition of words. Void may usually mean space. Does that mean that Titans have space shields? Wow, those much be useful. No, void is a cool sounding word used to describe awesomely powerful shields. In a similar way, it's used here to describe an awesomely powerful creature.

I'm afraid I do not have the 5th Edition rulebook at this moment in time so I cannot look into this in more detail. I understand that logic cannot be applied to this because it is obviously made with rule of cool. So if someone can copy out the passage in which information on the void whale can be found, I would be very thankful. I would also enjoy the sub-heading of the particular section that passage is under. This information should be more than enough to decide on whether it preys in space or in the Warp.

chaos0xomega
23-07-2008, 20:14
It is NOT a warp construct. It can't be. To those saying Orks utilize warp travel, check your sources, because they don't. They perform the "'ere we go" chant when they want to travel FTL, and just appear where it is they want to go. That's not ajoke either, check BFG, IIRC, that's where it was first mentioned.

And people saying it couldn't eat an entire fleet, look at the picture in the book. It's a big flippin whale(that looks kickass) EATING A (small) ORK FLEET! Not just that, but it says the fleet was DEVOURED BY A VOID WHALE. It's science FICTION for crying out loud, geez. Scientifically speaking it wouldn't work (to current human knowledge), but in a place like 40k that means NOTHING!

And Chilltouch, the "passage" was posted in its entirety in the first post. It's literally one sentence with an image. The image depicts a really awesome looking beasty that looks like a whale with a really flexible spine, tentacles, and sharp teeth, devouring Ork vessels (oh and the whale had one of those angler fish light-things for a tongue). There is nothing to help determine location, other than the fact that Orks don't use Warp travel.

Also, Void shield is an appropriate term, since IIRC, they were first developed for use on Imperial Navy spacecraft. Therefore, it can be assumed that the Void in void shield does not refer to the method of operation, but it's intended operating environment. This is further supported by the background in which anything which touches a void shield is usually destroyed instantaneously, and yet the void shield touches the ground when activated by a titan/vehicle and the ground remains unharmed. I.E.- theres a fluff loophole which GW has yet to retcon.

Eulenspiegel
23-07-2008, 20:46
And how would it ... blah


It's science FICTION for crying out loud,

Or more correctly, it´s science fiction. Slaaneshislave, stop trying to win every thread :cool:

Chilltouch
23-07-2008, 20:50
Technically - and I mean, really technically - Orks can in fact be capable of Warp travel.

Page 60 of Battlefleet Gothic Armada.

EDIT: Oh, and if you want to be oh-so-technical-it-makes-my-eyes-bleed, Page 26 of Battlefleet Gothic Rule Book. As Orks do not have different catastrophic damage tables, their battleships can in fact possess Warp Drives and do, on a roll of 12 on 2d6 when rolling on the catastrophic damage table. Otherwise, how would their Warp Drives implode?

Slaaneshi Slave
23-07-2008, 20:58
Also check out the Daemon Codex, which talks about Orks being boarded by Daemons whilst in the Warp.

Then you have Orks retrofitting Hulks to travel through the warp to get to where they are going.

Then you have the actual ork build ships travelling through the warp.

hiveminion
23-07-2008, 21:04
Well, the picture shows the Void Whale luring ships into its maw in a similar manner to angler fish. Now I can see no reason for any space fleet to fly towards a bright shining orb of light (unless you want to crash headlong into a star) especially if its attached to a planet-sized monster, in normal space.

In the Warp though, that shining light might look just like the Astronomicon...hey, let's check it out...oh shi...*om nom nom nom*

jma037
23-07-2008, 21:06
*Cough* Reference *Cough* to *Cough* Hitchhiker's *Cough* Guide*Cough*

Sekhmet
23-07-2008, 21:27
Of course Orks utilise Warp Travel. How do you think they travel around? ;)

If the Void Whale were materium based there is no way it could eat an entire fleet, as it would be massively too slow / small.

Unless it was so massively big that it seemed more like a sensor malfunction than the possibility of a life form bigger than a planet... and by the time you realized what was going on you were already deep into the creature's throat.

Or it could be something big enough to eat one ship at a time, but ate the entire fleet over the course of its journey through space. The book doesn't say the void whale ate the entire fleet in one gulp.

Bob Hunk
23-07-2008, 21:30
To those saying Orks utilize warp travel, check your sources, because they don't. They perform the "'ere we go" chant when they want to travel FTL, and just appear where it is they want to go. That's not ajoke either, check BFG, IIRC, that's where it was first mentioned.


Wha...? :wtf: Orks do - and always have - used warp travel. They capture Space Hulks, vessels that spend most of their existence in the warp. :) Plus they can build their own warp capable ships. Let's see what I have on the ol' book shelf to support this...

BFG: Armada suppliment, pg 60, 'Ork Hulk', para 2.
"For Orks, space hulks are their primary method of travelling between the stars...Once beyond the outer reaches, the space hulk will eventually be drawn back into the warp and, if all goes well, arrive at some point at a world ripe for conquest."

Codex: Orks, 2nd Edition, pg 10, para 6.
Describes Orks capturing space hulks with force field projectors and hitching a lift.

Codex: Orks, 2nd Edition, pg 64, box at bottom
Describes the 'Ere We Go' chant you mention as a song they sing when hitching a lift on space hulks, as opposed to a chant magically used to teleport them anywhere. Ofc it does share the name with the modern weirdboy power, but then there's always been a weirdboy power of that name/effect, but it's a battlefield thing, not an interstellar method of travel. :)

Codex: Orks, 4th Edition, pg 18, para 4.
"The primary method of interstellar travel for the Ork race is the space hulk."

Codex: Orks, 4th Edition, pg 18, para 5.
"The space hulk is guided into a warp storm or rift by the weirdboys and meks. It is drawn into the warp, and if all goes well, spat out once more at a world ripe for conquest."
Then below that there is a quote from an Ork about what it's like to travel through the warp.

:)

Slaaneshi Slave
23-07-2008, 21:31
Ships have windows too, you know? SOMEBODY on that fleet would notice...

Finnith
23-07-2008, 21:35
Wouldnt a creature that size have a hall of a lot of other organisms living within it? Just as we have bacteria living within us something that size could well have creatures living inside it. Hell it could be where the squats are hiding, nobody will think of looking in the belly of a whale.

Hell it would be quite a nifty trick for a warband to hop a ride on/inside one of these behemoths and dart out to grab anything it doesnt eat or even take wreckage from what it does it once its done all the hard work.

Chilltouch
23-07-2008, 21:36
Ships have windows too, you know? SOMEBODY on that fleet would notice...

Before anyone can go "OH ZOG, ITZ A VOID WHALE, GET IN DA TRUKK", they're probably eaten.

Besides, it's difficult to avoid something when you're on its own turf - i.e. the Warp.

Slaaneshi Slave
23-07-2008, 21:37
I quite agree that they would be eaten in the warp, but it is all this nonsence about it happening in real space which gets me...

Chilltouch
23-07-2008, 21:42
Wouldnt a creature that size have a hall of a lot of other organisms living within it? Just as we have bacteria living within us something that size could well have creatures living inside it. Hell it could be where the squats are hiding, nobody will think of looking in the belly of a whale.

Hell it would be quite a nifty trick for a warband to hop a ride on/inside one of these behemoths and dart out to grab anything it doesnt eat or even take wreckage from what it does it once its done all the hard work.

Thanks, now I am imagining billions of Orks screaming "'ERE WE GO 'ERE WE GO 'ERE WE GO" as they ride through space on a looted giant angler fish.

Sekhmet
23-07-2008, 21:43
I quite agree that they would be eaten in the warp, but it is all this nonsence about it happening in real space which gets me...

Space is dark, it's not like space creatures have running lights or something. All they'd see is the stars starting to disappear, then all of a sudden they're being digested or crunched to bits.

Rabid Bunny 666
23-07-2008, 21:45
Theres nothing to suggest its a warp being, the pic shows them in real space, and what self-respecting ork captain would fly AWAY from a fight with a zoggin' big gribbly?

Mr Spock
23-07-2008, 21:45
Maybe its something like this:

Chilltouch
23-07-2008, 21:52
If void whales were wide spread enough to be a large threat, then there would be loads of situations where particularily clumsy void whales fall into a planet's gravity well and end up destroying it.

MrBigMr
23-07-2008, 21:56
Void Whale sounds like a female GD of Nurgle.


Ships have windows too, you know? SOMEBODY on that fleet would notice...
Surfers have eyes to watch for sharks, but they still get eaten.


I like the idea of something big that non-Warp born and non-Tyranid. Why do those two elements have to be dragged into everything? Yes, they cause things like that, but it starts to feel like some Pokemon world where every god damn creature is a pokemon. Seriously, what do those people even eat? Pokemons?

Lets just split everything down in the middle into Warp and Tyranid creatures. All sentient life is attributed to the Old Ones. So from now on all sentient creatures are known as oldoneans, all other creatures are know as either warpborns or tyranidians. This is the trinity of 40K creatures. I choose you, Daemonettemon of Slaanesh-san!


I like an image I saw in the Valerian and Laureline (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val%C3%A9rian_and_Laureline) comic in which battleships were engaging some space borne monsters (who's name escape me at the moment) that were truly massive.
...
You know, I just lost the point I was making. But it's a fantastic comic non the less.

Col. Tartleton
23-07-2008, 22:01
It travels in the warp but feeds in RL. Its like the tyranids. Its a physical organism that can enter and exit the warp. But it is probably the coolest thing in 40k for sci fantasy reasons. If its as big as it seems it would have entire ecosystems in it and it would use reflective-location.

(The thing on its head would emit strong radiation, the light would reflect back from metallic objects like asteroids and ships its main food source over thousands of miles for it to pinpoint its food with light sensing organs in its skin. Yeah I just thought of something that cool.)

thechosenone
23-07-2008, 22:08
I quite agree that they would be eaten in the warp, but it is all this nonsence about it happening in real space which gets me...

Ok, from a purely biological entity sense could the space whale be possible sure. Firstly its not going to be carbon based as carbon based life clearly developes only or most frequently in systems like our own where asteroid debris and planetary environments which make carbon the easiest building blocks. Other building blocks like silicone, arsenic and other materials are capable of creating complex chains of building matter as well.

A creature big enough to eat fleets would not develop on terrestrial planets. Gravity would be to severe an obstacle for them as would finding food. A creature like this would most likely owe its origin to mineral rich asteroid belts and outer system debris clouds like our own oort cloud.

How would such life develop? Hard to say as life forms developing from material other then carbon is not well understood by science at the moment but has foundation in theory. There is the concept called the Nemesis Star with regard to our own solar system. Thats of a smaller companion star to our own hidden within the outer system debris clouds. Its a theoretical reason for the death of the dinosaurs. Periodic shifts in that star could jumble the asteroids and debris and send them in system. The warmth combined with the material in the debris could result in the development of some other form of life that is thought to only be theoretically possible. Remember that a great majority of stellar debris is made up of water and minerals. Both essential to life as we know. Such a creature if it did develop would live out there eating debris.

How much would it need? Ships are big and when we say "it ate a fleet" were all impressed but ships are also largely hollow. Also, consider the energy expended by such a creature. Its big so were at first inclined to say a lot but then when we consider that no energy is really required to float then you have a lot more room to play with. Its no surprise that the largest creatures on earth are found in the ocean. You need less energy to get around so you can be bigger. The creature may need to eat large quantities but that does not mean it has to eat frequently. While expending no energy floating around it could be digesting ships at a ponderously slow rate and orks could be having a jolly good time adventuring in its guts.

Why the glowing angler antennea? It suggests that there are other types of life in 40K space it wishes to attack. More likely other of its species or perhaps the creature is psionic in some fashion and the angler light disturbs warpspace pulling ships into real space near the beast. As suggested in other books the Tyranids may have been through our galaxy before in smaller numbers. The creature could have developed a taste for them in its evolution and the angler light may mimick hive mind activity or simply be something attractive to tyranids. Orks don't need a reason to chase after weird big things.

just my thoughts.... so flame on

Brother Siccarius
23-07-2008, 23:17
Also, it's GW. They use cool words as the prefix for anything. Void sounds all cool and mystical - hey, why not use it to describe this new beasty?
It's not just GW, ever hear the names of military planes and tanks?



Rule of cool can also be used of the definition of words. Void may usually mean space. Does that mean that Titans have space shields? Wow, those much be useful. No, void is a cool sounding word used to describe awesomely powerful shields. In a similar way, it's used here to describe an awesomely powerful creature.

I'm afraid I do not have the 5th Edition rulebook at this moment in time so I cannot look into this in more detail. I understand that logic cannot be applied to this because it is obviously made with rule of cool. So if someone can copy out the passage in which information on the void whale can be found, I would be very thankful. I would also enjoy the sub-heading of the particular section that passage is under. This information should be more than enough to decide on whether it preys in space or in the Warp.

From as far back as I can remember, the Warp has also been known as the void. Why, I'm not sure, but it's referred to several times as such.


It is NOT a warp construct. It can't be. To those saying Orks utilize warp travel, check your sources, because they don't. They perform the "'ere we go" chant when they want to travel FTL, and just appear where it is they want to go. That's not ajoke either, check BFG, IIRC, that's where it was first mentioned.
.
Orks always have and always will use the warp for travel, not to mention the fun hops between worlds with Telyporta tek-no-logy

*Cough* Reference *Cough* to *Cough* Hitchhiker's *Cough* Guide*Cough*
Gah! Forum germs! *hands a lozenge*

Space is dark, it's not like space creatures have running lights or something. All they'd see is the stars starting to disappear, then all of a sudden they're being digested or crunched to bits.
Actually, from the description I'm hearing this one apparently did have a running light.

If void whales were wide spread enough to be a large threat, then there would be loads of situations where particularily clumsy void whales fall into a planet's gravity well and end up destroying it.

There's billions of worlds, the Imperium doesn't own them all, I'm not even sure they're all even populated. If one did enter a planet's gravity well, and it wasn't shot to pieces by the populace, then it probably wouldn't even destroy the planet when it landed. For one, it's a space whale, it's probably not all that dense, it'd make a very large mess, but probably wouldn't do a whole lot to the planet itself.

Logarithm Udgaur
23-07-2008, 23:46
If it was sucked into a gravity well it would probably just turn into a potted plant and think "not again."

Inquisitor Engel
23-07-2008, 23:52
What if it's actually a misnomer - perhaps the Void Whale is actually swarm or flock of other creatures that are large enough to eat individual ships whole, but seem to be one entity.

Which to me is way creepier.

chaos0xomega
24-07-2008, 01:36
Also check out the Daemon Codex, which talks about Orks being boarded by Daemons whilst in the Warp.

Then you have Orks retrofitting Hulks to travel through the warp to get to where they are going.

Then you have the actual ork build ships travelling through the warp.

Leave it to GW to rewrite a major piece of fluff...


Well, the picture shows the Void Whale luring ships into its maw in a similar manner to angler fish. Now I can see no reason for any space fleet to fly towards a bright shining orb of light (unless you want to crash headlong into a star) especially if its attached to a planet-sized monster, in normal space.

Actually, I just noticed this a couple minutes ago, but if you look closely, and then compare it to the image of the moon slightly above the void whale, you'll notice that the "glowy orb" is in fact representative of a moon/large asteroid/planet, suggesting that it is more than large enough to devour a spacefleet.

To me this suggests that it uses lures to attract intelligent life to a "planet" which it then swallows and digests, and one thats done, sticks it out there again to go fishing. The question is, how would an intelligent species NOT notice the void whale behind the planet and the long fleshy bit that is attached to it? Either the connecting flesh (and probably the void whale) is several lightyears in size (which it could be considering the scale of an entire fleet/warband and a planet), but in that case it's direction dependent, if you come in at the wrong angle, you're going to notice something is up, or somehow the void whale can make itself invisible, or perhaps "blend in" to space itself to hide itself.

Bob Hunk, those are all well and good quotes, but Ork spacefleets (which are made up of things other than hulks) are a different manner. I admit, that this Void Whale may not have eaten a space fleet, although the image seems to suggest as such (although the quote just says "warband").

MrBigMr
24-07-2008, 02:02
Leave it to GW to rewrite a major piece of fluff...
Haven't the Orks been able to travel in the Warp for ages? The Kroot got their Warspheres, Warp capable starships, from eating Orks. Doesn't Space Crusade have Orks, which if I'm right, is set inside space hulks that are drifting in space and pop in and out of the Warp. And in BFG I believe Ork ships are said to be Warp capable. Mostly because they're made from Imperial ships.


The question is, how would an intelligent species NOT notice the void whale behind the planet and the long fleshy bit that is attached to it?
Ever see Rambo 3, in which Rambo takes a grenade, attaches a wire to the pin and ties that pin to a glow stick. And some Soviet soldier comes along, picks up the stick and gets blown to bits. Stupid script writing you would think, wouldn't you? But I've seen it happen in real life. In the army during an exercise some guys took a shrapnel mine (just a dummy with a siren inside it), wrapped it to a tree, attached a trip wire to the detonator and tried the wire to a glow stick. Sure enough, someone picked it up and killed his entire squad.

So never underestimate the stupidity of people.

chaos0xomega
24-07-2008, 02:09
The fluff I have read always said that Ork vessels were not warp capable, and that the 'ere we go chant was used to teleport them (although IIRC they were teleported through the warp, as in a warp portal opened at the point of departure and destination simultaneously, the orks entered the portal, and came out right away. Not exactly "warp travel" so much as it's using the warp to bend reality).

Grimbad
24-07-2008, 02:18
The 'ere we go thing is when they chant, then throw a lever to shove the space hulk back into the warp. Then they sit back and relax until the warp spits the hulk back out.
If the warboss is rich enough though, he'll commission or steal a warp drive to make the process less random.

On the Void Whale, couldn't it be a big thing that lives in a gas cloud or something? Eats the smaller creatures hanging out in the cloud, sucks in and exhales gas to move, etc.

MadDoc
24-07-2008, 02:27
The fluff I have read always said that Ork vessels were not warp capable, and that the 'ere we go chant was used to teleport them (although IIRC they were teleported through the warp, as in a warp portal opened at the point of departure and destination simultaneously, the orks entered the portal, and came out right away. Not exactly "warp travel" so much as it's using the warp to bend reality).

Where exactly did you read this? I'm curious, as it doesn't sound like any of the Ork material I've read (I've got all the Ork Codices old and new, 'Ere We Go! and Waaargh Da Orks! from Rogue Trader and the BFG Ork material). Page references would be good as well (though not essential).

Lord-Caerolion
24-07-2008, 02:30
I'd always thought the 'Ere we go! chant was more of just a tradition amongst the Orks, that they chant while traveling through the Warp on their Hulk. So it was less that they didn't have Warp travel, and more along the lines that they just can't navigate worth a damn.

MadDoc
24-07-2008, 02:45
I'd always thought the 'Ere we go! chant was more of just a tradition amongst the Orks, that they chant while traveling through the Warp on their Hulk. So it was less that they didn't have Warp travel, and more along the lines that they just can't navigate worth a damn.

I always saw it as the 'Ere We Go! chant being more like some sort of Warding/Fortifying charm while they travel through the Warp. As for their navigating, they just seem to get where they need to (the next fight whereever that happens to be :evilgrin:), this is even what the Codex suggests. Although they're also attributed with the ability to navigate (slightly) more accurately (they usually just don't necessarily care where they go so long as there's a fight at the end of it).

Hellebore
24-07-2008, 03:44
It never struck me as a warp entity.

The word void has been used to describe open space more often than the warp (which gets words like aethyr and empyrean instead) so I assumed it was a normal creature.

Certainly it doesn't represent any emotion I can identify - superiority complex maybe? Gluttony?

So I just assumed it was a huge stellar oraganism that eats different space debris, digesting silica/metals. Space ships just happen to made of the stuff they like to eat.

I've also never heard of orks being incapable of using the warp. They've used space hulks forever and those go through the warp all the time.

Then of course there is the shokk attack gun that opens a portal through the warp. Who's to say the orks don't have giant ones mounted on their ships to open a tunnel to their destination?

Hellebore

HK-47
24-07-2008, 05:07
Maybe the Void Whale is own galaxies version of a Bio Ship, but that brings up the question on how it breaths and many of the other crazy things biological creatures need an atmosphere for, also it does not have to be huge (by that I mean plant size) to eat a fleet of ships. I have not seen a picture of the thing but a creature the size of North America, should be able to eat a ork waaagh! without much of a problem.

Yes, there is nothing wrong with a creature the size of North America drifting through space eating lost star ships. :skull:

chaos0xomega
24-07-2008, 05:08
The 'ere we go thing is when they chant, then throw a lever to shove the space hulk back into the warp. Then they sit back and relax until the warp spits the hulk back out.
If the warboss is rich enough though, he'll commission or steal a warp drive to make the process less random.

On the Void Whale, couldn't it be a big thing that lives in a gas cloud or something? Eats the smaller creatures hanging out in the cloud, sucks in and exhales gas to move, etc.

That's what I was thinking. It would also help explain the "errant" part of it.


Where exactly did you read this? I'm curious, as it doesn't sound like any of the Ork material I've read (I've got all the Ork Codices old and new, 'Ere We Go! and Waaargh DA Orks! from Rogue Trader and the BFG Ork material). Page references would be good as well (though not essential).

I'm fairly certain it was in the original BFG book. I'll see if I can dig it up tomorrow. If I can't then I'm lying... or have faulty memory.


I always saw it as the 'Ere We Go! chant being more like some sort of Warding/Fortifying charm while they travel through the Warp. As for their navigating, they just seem to get where they need to (the next fight whereever that happens to be ), this is even what the Codex suggests. Although they're also attributed with the ability to navigate (slightly) more accurately (they usually just don't necessarily care where they go so long as there's a fight at the end of it).

AH! Maybe that's where the confusion stems from. Now that you mention that, IIRC the way their superluminal travel works is that they enter the warp, and as a result of the 'Ere we Go chant, they are deposited in the place where they want to go (I.E. thats how their navigation works).

Apologies, there goes that argument.


The word void has been used to describe open space more often than the warp (which gets words like aethyr and empyrean instead) so I assumed it was a normal creature.


Assuming my "planet bait" hypothesis is correct, I would assume that it is a realspace creature. Yes, there are planets in the warp, but to my knowledge, they are generally avoided by everyone.


Maybe the Void Whale is own galaxies version of a Bio Ship, but that brings up the question on how it breaths and many of the other crazy things biological creatures need an atmosphere for, also it does not have to be huge (by that I mean plant size) to eat a fleet of ships. I have not seen a picture of the thing but a creature the size of North America, should be able to eat a ork waaagh! without much of a problem.

Yes, there is nothing wrong with a creature the size of North America drifting through space eating lost star ships. :skull:

It's scFI, emphasis on the fi part. By the same note, Tyranid hive-fleets would need to breathe in space as well, yet they don't, so it's clearly a non-issue. Also, if they exist in gas clouds, they could potentially breathe in those gasses and then use them to travel from gascloud to gascloud (I.E. that would be their version of holding their breath and travelling underwater).

I think it would have to be a good bit bigger than north america though. If it's using a moon-sized planet as a lure (the images aren't in scale, so you can't really say that the lure is the same size as the moon right above it, nor can you really say how large the ships in the fleet are, one looks like a fightabomma, but the other two look like kruizers), it would have to be considerably bigger than a continent, otherwise the Orks(and anyone else) would have little reason to approach it unless they suspected it was habitable/inhabited/attackable). That's not to say that a newborn isn't about the size of N.America though :p

Brother Siccarius
24-07-2008, 05:50
It never struck me as a warp entity.

The word void has been used to describe open space more often than the warp (which gets words like aethyr and empyrean instead) so I assumed it was a normal creature.

Certainly it doesn't represent any emotion I can identify - superiority complex maybe? Gluttony?

Not everything that lives in the warp is fueled by emotions like Demons are. Certainly the next worse things to demons in the warp, the enslavers, existed before Chaos was starting to pick up speed in our portion.

oCoYoRoAoKo
24-07-2008, 07:00
you guys do realise that we are talking about orks here? they are the one race in 40k which regularly does crazy stuff like this - need i remind you of the piece of fluff which says that ork pilots wind down their windows to hurl insults at their opponents. in space.

As for them not having warp travel. they do, as shown in the current ork codex.

i think that the void whale is a creature of the materium. if massive tyranid ships can survive in space then its feasable that other large creatures would be able to also. as for the size of the thing, and orks not noticing it behind the moon-sized-glowy-orb-thing (tm), i would imagine it went something like:

COME ON BOYZ, LETZ GIV DAT DERE BEASTY A GOOD KRUMPIN'

or

DATS THE BIGGEST SQUIG IV' EVA SEEN, ILL BET IT TASTES LIKE CHIKIN (probably followed by the first phrase)

or the whale could have simply 'swam' up under the fleet and the orks not noticed :P

Cy.

Pika_power
24-07-2008, 08:08
I like the idea of something big that non-Warp born and non-Tyranid. Why do those two elements have to be dragged into everything? Yes, they cause things like that, but it starts to feel like some Pokemon world where every god damn creature is a pokemon. Seriously, what do those people even eat? Pokemons?


Actually, there are non pokemon. You can see in a few episode normal fish in a fishtank. Also, food is not often shown. After all, it is rice balls. The humans eat rice, the pokemon eat berries and pokechow.

Yeah... I know. No need to say it.

pookie
24-07-2008, 11:00
Wha...? :wtf: Orks do - and always have - used warp travel. They capture Space Hulks, vessels that spend most of their existence in the warp. :) Plus they can build their own warp capable ships. Let's see what I have on the ol' book shelf to support this...

BFG: Armada suppliment, pg 60, 'Ork Hulk', para 2.
"For Orks, space hulks are their primary method of travelling between the stars...Once beyond the outer reaches, the space hulk will eventually be drawn back into the warp and, if all goes well, arrive at some point at a world ripe for conquest."

Codex: Orks, 2nd Edition, pg 10, para 6.
Describes Orks capturing space hulks with force field projectors and hitching a lift.

Codex: Orks, 2nd Edition, pg 64, box at bottom
Describes the 'Ere We Go' chant you mention as a song they sing when hitching a lift on space hulks, as opposed to a chant magically used to teleport them anywhere. Ofc it does share the name with the modern weirdboy power, but then there's always been a weirdboy power of that name/effect, but it's a battlefield thing, not an interstellar method of travel. :)

Codex: Orks, 4th Edition, pg 18, para 4.
"The primary method of interstellar travel for the Ork race is the space hulk."

Codex: Orks, 4th Edition, pg 18, para 5.
"The space hulk is guided into a warp storm or rift by the weirdboys and meks. It is drawn into the warp, and if all goes well, spat out once more at a world ripe for conquest."
Then below that there is a quote from an Ork about what it's like to travel through the warp.

:)

theres even note of this in WD 118, certainly aint a New bit of Fluff.

Killgore
24-07-2008, 11:39
I quite agree that they would be eaten in the warp, but it is all this nonsence about it happening in real space which gets me...


you take the 40k saying "A open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbared" to litteraly, crikey





why cant there be mighty space living creatures with mouths miles long?


im sure they spend most of their lifetime happily frollicking near gas giants or traveling from place to place

its not the void whales fault an Ork fleet happened apon it and decided it would make a nice change from squig burger only for the tables to turn on them lol

NeonDante
24-07-2008, 15:14
Man, too many people are taking this too seriously. It's a big space whale, and it ate an Orkish battlefleet, in a moment of spontaneous silliness. Does it conform to physics, is it material or warp? Who cares, Da boys just got eaten by a bloody big space whale with shiny gubbins on it, and the rest probably laughed. Orks are made to be brutal with a funny side, and this is part of it. Don't pick apart the rare light hearted goofiness in the sea of GRIMDARK.

Edit: And I like the idea of it eating the Orks when they tried to eat it. So orky. :)

x-esiv-4c
24-07-2008, 15:17
I smell a new Apoc datasheet :)

Nazguire
24-07-2008, 15:24
I smell a new Apoc datasheet :)


A datasheet of a void whale?

Oh look on in terror as the Void Whale thrashes on in absolute destructive horror! Watch as it craves water! Flee it's Str 10 Lick attack of doom.

:eyebrows:

Triggerdog
24-07-2008, 15:35
Void Whale= Om nom nom incarnate
Void Shark= Apostle of nom nom nom

pookie
24-07-2008, 15:38
A datasheet of a void whale?

Oh look on in terror as the Void Whale thrashes on in absolute destructive horror! Watch as it craves water! Flee it's Str 10 Lick attack of doom.

:eyebrows:

ROFL! liked that, seriously i did, so much so that my boss just asked what i was laughing at, although how i explain to her what a void whale is, well im not sure if she'd accept that as a reason to laugh so loud someone complained about me!

there is also the fact its a Void Whale ( as in it lives in the Voids of space ), im yet to see a game of Apoc set in space....

Triggerdog
24-07-2008, 15:40
ROFL! liked that, seriously i did, so much so that my boss just asked what i was laughing at, although how i explain to her what a void whale is, well im not sure if she'd accept that as a reason to laugh so loud someone complained about me!

there is also the fact its a Void Whale ( as in it lives in the Voids of space ), im yet to see a game of Apoc set in space....

Battlefleet Gothic expansion?:eyebrows:

Mad Jack Deacon
24-07-2008, 16:33
Ships have windows too, you know? SOMEBODY on that fleet would notice...

The Millenium Falcon had windows too, and they flew down the throat of a space slug.

OH SNAP!

sydbridges
24-07-2008, 17:23
Anyone who injects "OMG, not realistic" into a discussion about a game where an entire race's technology works solely because they believe it should work is being ridiculous... especially since if it was the same scene but "Void Whale" was replaced with "Tyranid Void Whale," no one would bat an eye.

Also, it's worth noting that the arguments like "it needs to breathe" are pretty earth-centric. Who freaking knows how alien life could work - maybe it obtains all the energy it needs by absorbing solar radiation and only eats to grow. We know a lot about life on earth, but to treat life on our planet like it is absolutely the only way for life to function seems to me to be making a fairly large logical leap.

I'd like to second that I don't think a void whale would work well for apocalypse (if it's big enough to eat ork ships, it's probably too big to put on the board), but I think that would be an awesome thing to make for BFG. Maybe have players roll every turn to determine who gets to control it?

Oh, and I love the Void Whale. The Ork Waagh! map was the first thing I saw in the book that just made me laugh. The arrow pointing for the Waagh INTO the whale's mouth was like icing on a delicious cake.

Shibboleth
24-07-2008, 18:09
Maybe it's called a 'whale' because, like a real whale, it has to surface to breathe, but dive to catch food, ie. dips in and out of the warp...?

baphomael
24-07-2008, 18:37
Assuming my "planet bait" hypothesis is correct, I would assume that it is a realspace creature. Yes, there are planets in the warp, but to my knowledge, they are generally avoided by everyone.




Thats the conclusion I came to. I can just imagine it sitting with its unimaginably big mouth open holding that orb that looks like a planet in its gob, waiting for some unlucky Orks to go "Oi, boss! Why dont we duff in dat planet?!"

chaos0xomega
24-07-2008, 18:48
Battlefleet Gothic expansion?:eyebrows:

Shhh.... I'm thinking of trying to sculpt a 6 foot long void whale and bring it to GD for a big game of BFG. It'll probably take me a few years to get done, but damn it'll be cool...


I'd like to second that I don't think a void whale would work well for apocalypse (if it's big enough to eat ork ships, it's probably too big to put on the board), but I think that would be an awesome thing to make for BFG. Maybe have players roll every turn to determine who gets to control it?


Well, you could have a "baby" void whale...


Oh, and I love the Void Whale. The Ork Waagh! map was the first thing I saw in the book that just made me laugh. The arrow pointing for the Waagh INTO the whale's mouth was like icing on a delicious cake.

Wasn't it?


Maybe it's called a 'whale' because, like a real whale, it has to surface to breathe, but dive to catch food, ie. dips in and out of the warp...?

Possibility. In that case, it would have to be a warp entity (and hence dive into the real world for food), otherwsie there would be no purpose to having a fake planet at the end of your tongue...



Thats the conclusion I came to. I can just imagine it sitting with its unimaginably big mouth open holding that orb that looks like a planet in its gob, waiting for some unlucky Orks to go "Oi, boss! Why dont we duff in dat planet?!"

LOL

Lothlanathorian
24-07-2008, 18:51
Didn't the Tyranids inslave some giant space whales to make them hive ships? I doesn't has all my old books no mores:cries: so I can't look it up. I don't think it was mentioned in the newer book, but it has also been a while since I've even touched that one.

baphomael
24-07-2008, 19:02
Either way, I think we can all settle on one thing - the void whale is pure awesome.

chaos0xomega
25-07-2008, 00:01
Yes. It has tentacles and is therefore made of win.

MrBigMr
25-07-2008, 00:48
Anyone care for a model for the damn thing?
http://www.miniature-giant.com/goroloth-Reaper-Dark-Heaven-Legends-DHL-sku-3230-c-144-p-7-pr-10986.html
Now all we need are rules for it to use in BFG games. Better than some gas cloud or asteroid field.

Lotan
25-07-2008, 01:02
MrBigMr, awesome model. Me wants a void whale for gothic. Datasheet of autowin vs orks because "dey is stoopid"

Lotan
25-07-2008, 01:07
If it fed by absorbing radiation, it wouldn't be able to eat a fleet, as it would have no mouth or digestive system.


Oh yeah! One thing comes to mind here, venus fly trap. It uses radiation for food but also has a "mouth" per se! Yes it may only trap insects and feed on their rotting corpses but it still "eats" them. But I'm sorry and I have no phsysical data on the voidwhale and so cannot comment, but by assuming that it has an ass on the other end of that mouth is another useless presumption! There's one tiny drawing thats causing a massive black hole of energy. Honestly if people put this much thought into actual science like cancer research or something we'd be immortal by now! lol

ITS A BADASS KILLER BEASTIE! WHY QUESTION IT!?!

Sekhmet
25-07-2008, 01:31
Didn't the Tyranids inslave some giant space whales to make them hive ships? I doesn't has all my old books no mores:cries: so I can't look it up. I don't think it was mentioned in the newer book, but it has also been a while since I've even touched that one.

That was the zerg.

chaos0xomega
25-07-2008, 02:47
MrBigMr, I have 3 of those minis, and I can assure you they aren't big enough to consume an entire ork fleet, let alone a single kroozer(well, maybe a kroozer, but not whole).

Lockjaw
25-07-2008, 05:06
maybe inbetween ork snacks it lives off space plankton, or it pulls a Unicron and in fact, actually chews on planets, tyranids do it, why not a void whale?

NashTrickster
25-07-2008, 06:46
Okay, I've only read "diagonnally" through this thread but I'm under the impression that no one mentionned the simple possibility that there is no such thing as a Void Whale! The Void Whale is merely a reference to the "here there be dragons" of the maps of old.

Azgra's boyz disappeared in space and some superstitious Ork (yes, the same who think that if it's red it goes faster, etc...) said they were eaten by a Void Whale.

I personally would rather have that as the explanation rather than giant angler fishes with a fake planet at the tip of their tongue as bait... YMMV of course.

Lothlanathorian
25-07-2008, 06:47
MrBigMr, I have 3 of those minis, and I can assure you they aren't big enough to consume an entire ork fleet, let alone a single kroozer(well, maybe a kroozer, but not whole).

BFG is not scale, don't forget that. So, the model would work just fine as a representation. I'd recommend a big *******' base, though, since that matters.

Sekhmet
25-07-2008, 07:44
there is no such thing as a Void Whale!

Heresy. Burn witch!



Azgra's boyz disappeared in space and some superstitious Ork (yes, the same who think that if it's red it goes faster, etc...) said they were eaten by a Void Whale.

Red wunz do go fasta. It's in the rules.

NashTrickster
25-07-2008, 08:16
Red wunz do go fasta. It's in the rules.Well that could be a debate in itself and I don't want to derail the thread but...

You can't really link the representation of a rule on the TT (i.e. to represent a faster Ork vehicule, paint it red) and the reality: Orks paint their vehicules red and think it makes them go faster. Since they think it does, they push them a bit further and they thus indeed end up being faster, making the Orks think they were right...

The same is true for the Crux Terminatus for example: in reality, Crux are given to the best warriors. In game terms it grants +1A and a better Cd. It doesn't mean however that, in reality, the day a warrior is granted the right to bear a Crux he can "all of sudden" strike once more than he used to the day before...

To come back on track: Orks are a superstitious race, thinking that the use of certain colors have an impact on reality, what explanation would they come up with if a whole fleet disappeared without any reason? A Void Whale of course! Doesn't mean such a thing really exists though...

Tonberry
25-07-2008, 08:26
Wow, we really should now petition for a Void Whale fan club in Groups & Factions :)

jhon
25-07-2008, 08:58
Wouldnt a creature that size have a hall of a lot of other organisms living within it? Just as we have bacteria living within us something that size could well have creatures living inside it. Hell it could be where the squats are hiding, nobody will think of looking in the belly of a whale.

Hell it would be quite a nifty trick for a warband to hop a ride on/inside one of these behemoths and dart out to grab anything it doesnt eat or even take wreckage from what it does it once its done all the hard work.

i bet some warsmith from Iron warrior already had a collection of void whale war ship .

Simon Sez
25-07-2008, 09:04
The arrow pointing for the Waagh INTO the whale's mouth was like icing on a delicious cake. I bet you anything those Orks are now causing rokkit-assisted heartburn!!!

Do Void Whales have Void Barnacles?

abaddon188
25-07-2008, 09:45
the void whale could be yet another tyranid organism

Lord-Caerolion
25-07-2008, 09:52
Apparently it isn't actually an angler fish type thing on the tongue, as the design podcast mentioned the picture being of a Void Whale eating a planet. Of course, I'm all up for calling that crud, and going with the angler-fish thing, but just thought I'd mention it.

MrBigMr
25-07-2008, 12:57
MrBigMr, I have 3 of those minis, and I can assure you they aren't big enough to consume an entire ork fleet, let alone a single kroozer(well, maybe a kroozer, but not whole).
Like said, the models are just markers. The real ship is somewhere at the base of the pole. I mean, my battleship is suppose to be like 5 to 10 times bigger than my cruisers, but in models the battleshipt is twice the size if even that.

The Lord of Hats
25-07-2008, 13:59
Do Void Whales have Void Barnacles?

Probably. In fact, Void Whales could be the centerpiece of a huge Void-Ecosystem, with Void Remoras eating the larger bits of scrap floating off from whatever the Void Whales eat, many varieties of Void Fish that eat the smaller pieces, Void Sharks that eat the Void Fish...

Mad Jack Deacon
25-07-2008, 14:52
Void Sharks that eat the Void Fish...

Which probably have toxic levels of Void Mercury in them, so be careful if you're feeding it to your children. No more than 6oz of Void Fish a week to children under 15!

Void.

Void!

VOID!

Ekranoplan
25-07-2008, 16:33
Also, this elusive Void Whale may have eaten the fleet in small portions. Perhaps it just ate the flagship, and the rest of the orks dispersed and everyone just assumed the Void Whale ate the entire fleet? Perhaps it was surviving orks that started tell this tale.

Although I don't think a space dwelling creature would evolve naturally beyond that of bacteria, there is definitely plenty of material to survive on out there. Our own solar system is surrounded by a cloud of hydrogen. I could foresee a space filter feeder consuming this hydrogen for energy.

Weed_Bix
25-07-2008, 16:39
I think its some ork survivors of a space battle comming up with an exuse why they returned by themselves without the rest of the Wwwaaaggghhhh.

Boss Ork: Why you boyz back wid no other boyz

Surviving ork boy: Well dis errr... Big... Void Whale dunnit and we escaped 'cause we'z quick finkin

Boss Ork: Errr.. dis Whale fingy big enuff to eat da rest of da boyz except you

Surviving ork boy:....Yer we knock it around a bit and filled it full of Dakka so we'z survive?

Boss Ork:You'z got a thick hide... alright carry on.

And so on... as i said before.... an exuse for why they return alone without the other boyz (they lost the space battle).
Cheers, :skull:

heretics bane
25-07-2008, 16:42
In the EOT isnt there like blood thirsters the size of galaxys? so a massive whale that is capable of swallow an entire fleet dosnt sound un reasonable.

Warboss Jhura Ironfang
25-07-2008, 17:48
In the EOT isnt there like blood thirsters the size of galaxys? so a massive whale that is capable of swallow an entire fleet dosnt sound un reasonable.

'Thirsters that big sounds a wee bit OTT, don't ya think? Maybe small moon but no where near galaxy sized.

Back to the whale, I feel a conversion of the Black Reach box coming up... "yeah we'ze whalerz uv da moon, we'ze carry a 'arpoon!" :D

Cookie to the person who gets the reference.

chaos0xomega
25-07-2008, 18:27
Well that could be a debate in itself and I don't want to derail the thread but...

You can't really link the representation of a rule on the TT (i.e. to represent a faster Ork vehicule, paint it red) and the reality: Orks paint their vehicules red and think it makes them go faster. Since they think it does, they push them a bit further and they thus indeed end up being faster, making the Orks think they were right...

The same is true for the Crux Terminatus for example: in reality, Crux are given to the best warriors. In game terms it grants +1A and a better Cd. It doesn't mean however that, in reality, the day a warrior is granted the right to bear a Crux he can "all of sudden" strike once more than he used to the day before...

To come back on track: Orks are a superstitious race, thinking that the use of certain colors have an impact on reality, what explanation would they come up with if a whole fleet disappeared without any reason? A Void Whale of course! Doesn't mean such a thing really exists though...

There's a problem with your 'ere be dragons' theory. There is a PICTURE (or a caricature) of a void whale eating ork ships, AND it's not being told from the Ork perspective, it's the Imperial. If you check that part of the rulebook, you'll notice that there is some "unknown" info, like the destination of cetain splinter-waagh's, and the fact that the word "errant" is used implies that there are in fact Void Whales in the galaxy, and this one happened to wander off from its usual stomping grounds.


Apparently it isn't actually an angler fish type thing on the tongue, as the design podcast mentioned the picture being of a Void Whale eating a planet. Of course, I'm all up for calling that crud, and going with the angler-fish thing, but just thought I'd mention it.

It's not eating a planet, the angler-fish thing at the end of the tongue IS a planet...


Like said, the models are just markers. The real ship is somewhere at the base of the pole. I mean, my battleship is suppose to be like 5 to 10 times bigger than my cruisers, but in models the battleshipt is twice the size if even that.

Wait, what? I thought all the ships were in scale to eachother, and that the planets were out of scale?


Cookie to the person who gets the reference.

Futurama

Ekranoplan
25-07-2008, 18:56
I think its some ork survivors of a space battle comming up with an exuse why they returned by themselves without the rest of the Wwwaaaggghhhh.

Boss Ork: Why you boyz back wid no other boyz

Surviving ork boy: Well dis errr... Big... Void Whale dunnit and we escaped 'cause we'z quick finkin

Boss Ork: Errr.. dis Whale fingy big enuff to eat da rest of da boyz except you

Surviving ork boy:....Yer we knock it around a bit and filled it full of Dakka so we'z survive?

Boss Ork:You'z got a thick hide... alright carry on.

And so on... as i said before.... an exuse for why they return alone without the other boyz (they lost the space battle).
Cheers, :skull:

Great explanation, but you failed to consider one thing. Orks never lose :)

If they win, they win
If they die, they're dead so it doesn't count as a lose
And if they run they can come back for another go.

Warboss Jhura Ironfang
25-07-2008, 19:07
Okay Chaos, you got it. *goes to get cookie* Regardless of what the Void Whale is, Void Whale = Pure Awesomeness

Edit: Chaos, I just read your sig and actually looked up the symbol... now I don't like the Olympics... *shudders*

MrBigMr
25-07-2008, 19:11
Wait, what? I thought all the ships were in scale to eachother, and that the planets were out of scale?
Nope. Sure, an escort model is far smaller than a cruiser model, but if you look at the models, an Eldar escort with one pulse lance, which by fluff is suppose to be the size of the ship (making it a flying cannon, sort of like the gunship in Nausica of the Valley of the Wind, but naturally bigger), where as on Eldar cruisers the same guns are little cannons on the hull. So the escort in reality would be about the size of the little bumb in the cruiser's front.

Take the Cobra, which by what I've heard is 500-700m in length where as your Imperial cruiser is along 5-7Km. So take the models and if the cruiser is around the the length of 10 Cobras, then it's accurate.

Iracundus
25-07-2008, 21:04
Incorrect scale, the accepted BFG convention is escorts approximately 0.5km, cruisers 3km length, and battleships 6km.

Trying to approximate scale from looking at gun sizes on the model is also inaccurate as it isn't known whether the pulsar on the Eldar Eclipse cruiser is the exact same as that on a Eldar Hemlock escort. In game terms they give the exact effect, but that does not mean the guns' power per shot or rate of fire are identical. The flying gun that is the Hemlock may accomplish its "1 Pulsar" shot game effect through hypothetically 3 powerful shots in quick succession. The guns on the Eclipse (which technically represent 2 pulsar shots) may get this effect through more powerful shots or perhaps lower power output but a higher fire rate sustained by larger energy reserves on the larger ship. The inaccuracy of using model weapons as scale comparisons has another example: 60cm lances on a Chaos Hades cruiser are represented both by the WWII-like battleship turrets on the main ship spine for the dorsal lances yet by the small barbette guns on the front for the frontal lances. Same game effect but entirely different visual representation.

Lexington
25-07-2008, 21:42
Screw all this "oh, it couldn't be real!" hand-wringing. I want my Giant Space Whale. And I want to see Greenpeace Cruisers getting in the way of Soviet ships hunting the Giant Space Whale.

MrBigMr
25-07-2008, 22:06
In Soviet Space, whales hunt ships.

Imagine an Ork Hulk built around a Void Whale. Like one of those Ork Gargants BFG size. That'll be one sick thing. You know, I was thinking an Ork army with the new starter. And I've wanted to do an Ork BFG fleet. Hmm... Wouldn't be the first time I've had a BFG fleet and 40K army having a connection (my Chaos forces).

RampagingRavener
25-07-2008, 22:10
"Kraken Tooth Dagger

Legends abound of gargantuan creatures hiding on the edges of system space, ready to attack vessels just as they emerge from the warp. Whilst no concrete evidence exists, huge pearlescent teeth have been fashioned into gleaming knives by many void born, who will only say that they were recovered from debris found in the void. Some are decorated with intricate scrimshaw carvings depicting horrendous beasts tearing apart ships, oddly enough, making such daggers good luck charms."

Taken from the Dark Heresy suppliment "The Inquisitor's Handbook". Depending on how 'official' you consider it, the above seems to be a fairly large indication that such large creatures like the Void Whale do, in fact, exist as physical realspace entities. Instead of just...generic Warp-beasties or throwaway explanations for more mundane reasons Ship fleets would disappear.

Ekranoplan
26-07-2008, 00:09
Who can forget Kaptin' Orkhab and his quest for vengeance against the Great White Void Whale?

baphomael
26-07-2008, 00:21
Who can foget Kaptin' Orkhab and his quest for vengeance against the Great While Void Whale?

I wonder how long it'll take before someone does a conversion :p

HK-47
26-07-2008, 00:28
It official the Void Whale has become the most awesome little fluff tidbit ever. As for the breathing in space comment, it was a bad joke, I actually been thinking about bioships operating in open space. I've come to the conclusion that they take whatever air combination they breath with them in massive balladeers that are part lungs part storage. It would use a mixture of our active respiratory system, photosynthesis, and maybe a little chemosynthesis as well in order to generate what it needed. Its body would also probable have airlocks similar to the values in or circulatory system to keep air in and expel waste. Void whales probably don't eat ships, they likely eat smaller void creatures or filter out raw materials from the area around them, like stars (not like c'tan, but plant and bacteria), gas clouds, and something I call atmosphere skimming (where they stick parts of their bodies and "borrow" some elements from a planets atmosphere.)

This is all theory though so pick apart to your hearts content.

MrBigMr
26-07-2008, 01:08
I wonder how long it'll take before someone does a conversion :p
Well... An ork model, model it with a coat with a tail, some armour ('eavy armour) and a tootch necklace, give the head a bionic eye, a cigar and a captains hat, model one leg bionic (cyber body), winged squig on the shoulder (attack squig) and model it with a power claw and a combi-rokkit (harpoon). Give the whole army a nautical theme with white/blue striped shirts and sailor's caps. Not to forget meganobs made to look like Big Daddies from Bioshock.

Add a little this and that and call them Space Whalers with a logo of a white whale and a harpoon.


Hmm... The new 5th edition starter set gives you 20 boyz, nobs, 5 terminators and a dreadnought, which will make a nice deff dread. I'm smelling an Ork army in the making...

Ekranoplan
26-07-2008, 01:26
It official the Void Whale has become the most awesome little fluff tidbit ever. As for the breathing in space comment, it was a bad joke, I actually been thinking about bioships operating in open space. I've come to the conclusion that they take whatever air combination they breath with them in massive balladeers that are part lungs part storage. It would use a mixture of our active respiratory system, photosynthesis, and maybe a little chemosynthesis as well in order to generate what it needed. Its body would also probable have airlocks similar to the values in or circulatory system to keep air in and expel waste. Void whales probably don't eat ships, they likely eat smaller void creatures or filter out raw materials from the area around them, like stars (not like c'tan, but plant and bacteria), gas clouds, and something I call atmosphere skimming (where they stick parts of their bodies and "borrow" some elements from a planets atmosphere.)

This is all theory though so pick apart to your hearts content.

I don't think any void dwelling creature would breathe in any sense that we are familiar with. With what we know, photosynthesis seems the least far fetched, and by extension, the most viable.

But I could also imagine a creature making use of a magnetic field for energy. For example, between Jupiter and Io there is an intense magnetic field that forms a fluxing tube.

chaos0xomega
26-07-2008, 01:52
Okay Chaos, you got it. *goes to get cookie* Regardless of what the Void Whale is, Void Whale = Pure Awesomeness

Edit: Chaos, I just read your sig and actually looked up the symbol... now I don't like the Olympics... *shudders*

LOL, second person I've had tell me that so far...


Nope. Sure, an escort model is far smaller than a cruiser model, but if you look at the models, an Eldar escort with one pulse lance, which by Fluff is suppose to be the size of the ship (making it a flying cannon, sort of like the gunship in Nausica of the Valley of the Wind, but naturally bigger), where as on Eldar cruisers the same guns are little cannons on the hull. So the escort in reality would be about the size of the little bumb in the cruiser's front.

Take the Cobra, which by what I've heard is 500-700m in length where as your Imperial cruiser is along 5-7Km. So take the models and if the cruiser is around the the length of 10 Cobras, then it's accurate.

Holy... I never even realized... and I'm normally a pretty big stickler for scale.



Screw all this "oh, it couldn't be real!" hand-wringing. I want my Giant Space Whale. And I want to see Greenpeace Cruisers getting in the way of Soviet ships hunting the Giant Space Whale.

Damn straight...


"Kraken Tooth Dagger

Legends abound of gargantuan creatures hiding on the edges of system space, ready to attack vessels just as they emerge from the warp. Whilst no concrete evidence exists, huge pearlescent teeth have been fashioned into gleaming knives by many void born, who will only say that they were recovered from debris found in the void. Some are decorated with intricate scrimshaw carvings depicting horrendous beasts tearing apart ships, oddly enough, making such daggers good luck charms."

Taken from the Dark Heresy suppliment "The Inquisitor's Handbook". Depending on how 'official' you consider it, the above seems to be a fairly large indication that such large creatures like the Void Whale do, in fact, exist as physical realspace entities. Instead of just...generic Warp-beasties or throwaway explanations for more mundane reasons Ship fleets would disappear.

Do you think maybe GW is going to push the "space-sea monster" thing in the new edition of the Dark Eldar fluff? That would really make them Dark Elves in space.


It official the Void Whale has become the most awesome little Fluff tidbit ever. As for the breathing in space comment, it was a bad joke, I actually been thinking about bioships operating in open space. I've come to the conclusion that they take whatever air combination they breath with them in massive balladeers that are part lungs part storage. It would use a mixture of our active respiratory system, photosynthesis, and maybe a little chemosynthesis as well in order to generate what it needed. Its body would also probable have airlocks similar to the values in or circulatory system to keep air in and expel waste. Void whales probably don't eat ships, they likely eat smaller void creatures or filter out raw materials from the area around them, like stars (not like c'tan, but plant and bacteria), gas clouds, and something I call atmosphere skimming (where they stick parts of their bodies and "borrow" some elements from a planets atmosphere.)

This is all theory though so pick apart to your hearts content.

Why do we assume that Tyranid organsims require oxygen/gases/something to breathe? Tyranid beasties don't need to eat for energy....

I like your "skimming" idea though.

MrBigMr
26-07-2008, 01:59
All organic reaction needs something, right? Even fungy needs gasses. But maybe a creature of that size is able to syphone all the stuff it needs from its diet. Planets have air, ships have air, gas clouds have frozen air, water and ice is two gasses bound together, etc. Or maybe it had fungi living inside it that takes carbondioxide and turns it into oxygen. There might be a whole ecosystem inside there.

Iracundus
26-07-2008, 02:07
It official the Void Whale has become the most awesome little fluff tidbit ever. As for the breathing in space comment, it was a bad joke, I actually been thinking about bioships operating in open space. I've come to the conclusion that they take whatever air combination they breath with them in massive balladeers that are part lungs part storage. It would use a mixture of our active respiratory system, photosynthesis, and maybe a little chemosynthesis as well in order to generate what it needed. Its body would also probable have airlocks similar to the values in or circulatory system to keep air in and expel waste.

Tyranid bio-ships probably resort to multiple forms of metabolism to keep themselves going in such a hostile environment. Gases for respiration do not have to be stored in gaseous form, and is a very inefficient way to transport them around. Tyranid ships have been described as swathing themselves in layers of frozen atmosphere harvested from the planets they have consumed. It is also possible they may, like deep diving creatures on Earth, store a significant portion of their required oxygen (or whatever other gases they use) in bonded form either in their circulation or in their muscles (like whale myoglobulin). These elements in their various storage forms can then be leeched off and released into the circulation for use when needed, thus eliminating the need for large low density spaces to store gases in gaseous form. In times of shortage, they might also resort to anerobic metabolism such as fermentation.



Void whales probably don't eat ships, they likely eat smaller void creatures or filter out raw materials from the area around them, like stars (not like c'tan, but plant and bacteria), gas clouds, and something I call atmosphere skimming (where they stick parts of their bodies and "borrow" some elements from a planets atmosphere.)

If they filter feed, they are not likely to need anything like jaws or teeth. Having those structures suggests they consume large solid objects. If there is a ecosystem out in space, it is possible there are predators. Another alternative is they may feed on carbonaceous and metallic (like iron-nickel)asteroids. That might go some way to explain why they attack the Imperium's ships: they mistake it for part of their normal asteroid diet.

chaos0xomega
26-07-2008, 02:09
Considering that Tyranids are rather unique in their "organicness" I don't think anyone can really say that those same rules apply.

Also consider the fact that the codex says that (paraphrasing)"everything devoured on the planet is put forth towards creating new bio-organisms." And nothing in the Tyranid fleet actually "eats" anything for energy...

Iracundus
26-07-2008, 02:18
The laws of physics and thermodynamics still hold and as creatures of realspace, the Tyranids are still subject to them. Energy must come from somewhere and photosynthesis alone is not sufficient to explain the energy expenditures of the Tyranid fleets and ecosystems. There are also examples of Tyranids feeding such as Lictors, and of Tyranids resorting to mobilization of fat reserves to fuel their metabolism in the novel Warriors of Ultramar depicting the invasion of Tarsis Ultra, which is canon with its incorporation into the 4th ed. Tyranid Codex.

You also paraphrase incorrectly. The 3rd ed. Tyranid Codex autopsy shows most Tyranid ground organisms do not have a digestive system for the consumption of raw materials like normal animals however it also does say they subsist off of secretions by other Tyranid organisms. The same Codex also in its segment on Tyranid consumption says the ground swarms are fed through the processing of carrion.

sydbridges
26-07-2008, 04:23
The laws of physics and thermodynamics still hold

Don't get me wrong, I love the laws of Thermodynamics, but they're a property of reality. I'm not sure they're a property of the 40k universe. The presence of sorcery makes me suspect that the laws of reality might not govern 40k.

Also, Kaptin' Orkhab's space whaling army is incredible. If you decide to make it, MrBigMr, you have to post photos of them here.

HK-47
26-07-2008, 04:55
Thanks everyone for helping flesh out my ideas on the subject. MrBigMr and Iracundus have pretty much stated the reasons why I think this thing has to carry out some process to receive the energy it needs to kept going. This is a natural creature, IMO, not a Nid. Nids creatures are all symbiotic to each other, the entire species support each other and each is bred to carry out a special purpose. This void whales most likely have an entire ecosystem living inside it, and may live in a symbiosis relationship with the whale, but two void whales would probably compete with each other if they ever met.

I hope that one day GW and BL launch a new series of xenobiology source books with these creatures in it, and an aside about and Ork named Kaptin' Orkhab and his life long quest to hunt down the Void Whale that ate his fleet. :D

Christine
26-07-2008, 06:40
Anyone care for a model for the damn thing?
http://www.miniature-giant.com/goroloth-Reaper-Dark-Heaven-Legends-DHL-sku-3230-c-144-p-7-pr-10986.html
Now all we need are rules for it to use in BFG games. Better than some gas cloud or asteroid field.

That is an excellent find there - I sure hope the BFG mob are reading this thread :)

Grimbad
26-07-2008, 07:02
I hope that one day GW and BL launch a new series of xenobiology source books with these creatures in it, and an aside about and Ork named Kaptin' Orkhab and his life long quest to hunt down the Void Whale that ate his fleet. :D

Captain Badrukk is hunting the tau manta that mowed down his mob.

Lothlanathorian
26-07-2008, 07:21
This is the most original thread I think we have had in a long time.

I so want an Orkhab mob, now, too.

abaddon188
26-07-2008, 08:41
'Thirsters that big sounds a wee bit OTT, don't ya think? Maybe small moon but no where near galaxy sized.

Back to the whale, I feel a conversion of the Black Reach box coming up... "yeah we'ze whalerz uv da moon, we'ze carry a 'arpoon!" :D

Cookie to the person who gets the reference.

in the warp anything can be any size just by thinking it cause the warp is...well...erm... its just wierd

Minister
26-07-2008, 14:28
'Thirsters that big sounds a wee bit OTT, don't ya think? Maybe small moon but no where near galaxy sized.

The book Eye of Terror does indeed feature a Bloodthirster flying through a solar system and accidentally smashing a planet on the way past. Then again, Eye of Terror is the novel least consistent with the rest of the 40K line, and includes things like Imperial Brute Ramships.


I wonder how long it'll take before someone does a conversion :p

I would point out the existence of the orc pirate captain Agog and his hunting of the "Behemuff", to be found in the WFRP Companion

Warpcrafter
26-07-2008, 14:46
Considering that Orks don't utilize warp travel(or at least they didn't as of 4th edition), I don't see how it could possibly be a warp-entity.

Not only that, but it's a "Void" whale, void has always been used to refer to space, not the warp.

And I was just about to post this very same thread...

I think I'm going to have to sculpt one tbh, it looks so kickass! It just needs an apoc datasheet :D

Well, you're more ambitious than me. A space-travelling creature big enough to eat starships, in 28MM scale would probably be about the size of the USS Ronald Reagan. Not that I'm implying that you shouldn't do it. It would make an awesome Gamesday exhibit!

baphomael
26-07-2008, 14:56
Well, you're more ambitious than me. A space-travelling creature big enough to eat starships, in 28MM scale would probably be about the size of the USS Ronald Reagan. Not that I'm implying that you shouldn't do it. It would make an awesome Gamesday exhibit!

Exhibit? It'd be big enough to hold gamesday inside it!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, would be awesome :p





Why do we assume that Tyranid organsims require oxygen/gases/something to breathe? Tyranid beasties don't need to eat for energy....

I like your "skimming" idea though.


Tyranids end up consuming all the air from whatever planet they are attacking, so I assume that the bioships store all this away while they travel planet-to-planet.

Its even possible that they generate their own 'air' as well. Older fluff hinted at entire ecosystems existing within bioships, so their could be some organisms within that exchange breathable gases in much the same way as plant and animal life does.

Ekranoplan
26-07-2008, 17:15
Don't get me wrong, I love the laws of Thermodynamics, but they're a property of reality. I'm not sure they're a property of the 40k universe. The presence of sorcery makes me suspect that the laws of reality might not govern 40k.

Also, Kaptin' Orkhab's space whaling army is incredible. If you decide to make it, MrBigMr, you have to post photos of them here.

Thermodynamics definitely still hold in 40k, its just that the technology is sufficiently advanced to gain whatever effect the writers want. Since the writers have not given us a minute by minute breakdown of the daily life of a Tyranid Hiveship, and since not every action of these ships are documented, we can just say that they are doing whatever they need to do to survive. One day, when we have the knowledge to engineer bioships (and a reason to do so) we can better understand what these imaginary hive ships might have been doing.

I submit to you that sorcery follows the laws of physics very exactly. Sorcery is just like any reaction. A sorcerer, using some kind of technology, or their connection with the warp, alters space such that any effect can be created. Such as fire, lightning, intense gravity, and the creation of objects.
Even the Warp follows some kind of laws of physics, its just that we cannot comprehend them. Imagine a world where the basic building block is not an atom, and there is no such thing as matter. How does a sentient creature experience that world without a brain to interpret their senses?

chaos0xomega
26-07-2008, 17:45
The laws of physics and thermodynamics still hold and as creatures of realspace, the Tyranids are still subject to them. Energy must come from somewhere and photosynthesis alone is not sufficient to explain the energy expenditures of the Tyranid fleets and ecosystems. There are also examples of Tyranids feeding such as Lictors, and of Tyranids resorting to mobilization of fat reserves to fuel their metabolism in the novel Warriors of Ultramar depicting the invasion of Tarsis Ultra, which is canon with its incorporation into the 4th ed. Tyranid Codex.

You also paraphrase incorrectly. The 3rd ed. Tyranid Codex autopsy shows most Tyranid ground organisms do not have a digestive system for the consumption of raw materials like normal animals however it also does say they subsist off of secretions by other Tyranid organisms. The same Codex also in its segment on Tyranid consumption says the ground swarms are fed through the processing of carrion.

What part of science fiction are you not getting? Besides, how can you say photosynthesis isn't enough? First of all, they are in SPACE, they recieve considerably more solar energy than a plant on the ground would, and also, you have no idea what kind of photosynthetic substance they would be using. For all we know it could be nearing 100% efficiency, meaning that it WOULD be enough to power them. Not only that, but the Tyranids are a heavily psychic race, for all we know, they require very little energy to do anything.

Also, if Tyranids do not have a digestive system, how could they be "fed" anything?


Well, you're more ambitious than me. A space-travelling creature big enough to eat starships, in 28MM scale would probably be about the size of the USS Ronald Reagan. Not that I'm implying that you shouldn't do it. It would make an awesome Gamesday exhibit!

Wow, I didn't say 28mm scale, I meant BFG scale :D The apoc datasheet thing was just for hilarity purposes, and if you have something so kickass... why not?


I submit to you that sorcery follows the laws of physics very exactly. Sorcery is just like any reaction. A sorcerer, using some kind of technology, or their connection with the warp, alters space such that any effect can be created. Such as fire, lightning, intense gravity, and the creation of objects.
Even the Warp follows some kind of laws of physics, its just that we cannot comprehend them. Imagine a world where the basic building block is not an atom, and there is no such thing as matter. How does a sentient creature experience that world without a brain to interpret their senses?

So, basically what you said is that the 40k universe and the Warp doesn't follow the laws of physics. if the basic building blocks of matter, and therefore the the study of physics, do not exist...how do rules and laws still apply?

And no, sorcery does not follow the laws of physics, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, nor can matter every truly be destroyed. Tapping into the warp to cast a spell throws both of these out the window, especially if you're eldar (bonesinging).

Iracundus
27-07-2008, 00:22
What part of science fiction are you not getting? Besides, how can you say photosynthesis isn't enough? First of all, they are in SPACE, they recieve considerably more solar energy than a plant on the ground would, and also, you have no idea what kind of photosynthetic substance they would be using. For all we know it could be nearing 100% efficiency, meaning that it WOULD be enough to power them. Not only that, but the Tyranids are a heavily psychic race, for all we know, they require very little energy to do anything.

I think it is you who are failing to understand "science fiction", namely the science bit. While fictional there is still some basis in reality and does not mean you simply make up whatever you want.

I can say photosynthesis is not enough because the intensity of radiated from a stellar object decreases in a non-linear fashion with respect to the distance from the emitter. It decreases in proportion to the distance squared. At the deep space distances the Tyranids operate at, the intensity is miniscule, even if one accounts for some higher efficiency photosynthesis reactions. That is why photosynthesis alone is not enough to account for the Tyranid ships' metabolisms and behavior at such distances.

The very fact the Tyranids need to consume worlds and have things as fat reserves on their bodies indicate they do obey the laws of physics and the requirements of biology. Use of psychic power doesn't mean they suddenly can "magic" away the needs of biology.



Also, if Tyranids do not have a digestive system, how could they be "fed" anything?

Read my previous post more carefully. Ground attack organisms for the most part lack digestive systems for the processing of RAW materials. The autopsy report on the Gaunt states these ground organisms absort pre-processed materials. A digestive system is not necessarily the same as a system for absorption.



And no, sorcery does not follow the laws of physics, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, nor can matter every truly be destroyed. Tapping into the warp to cast a spell throws both of these out the window, especially if you're eldar (bonesinging).

In no way does it throw thermodynamics out the window. If the sum total of the universe's energy includes realspace and the warp, then no energy or matter is being created. Bonesinging is drawing warp energy out and solidifying it into matter. We know matter and warp energy is interchangeable in some manner as realspace matter thrown into the warp eventually dissolves into the substance of the warp. Likewise the summoning up of daemons show that warp energy can form solid forms that can affect and be affected by realspace matter (like a bullet). Warp/psychic energy is no more than just another form of energy and all those manipulations of it can still obey thermodynamics. It is possible to decrease local entropy if the entropy of the overall system still increases, and so molding complex creations like wraithbone objects out of the warp doesn't violate anything.

olmsted
27-07-2008, 02:24
Yes, it says it ate a fleet. Now read my post again and see where I stated logically reasons why it ate it in the warp. A Nurgling can eat a fleet in the warp so long as it's gellar fields are down.

your trying to use logic in a world full of demons elves in space giant robots that spew death from cannons and entire worlds that are shaped by the thoughts of a strong demon.


but then you also claim logic in saying that it only has two options of feeding. lets just say im sure there are some hive fleets that never stood a chance and theres plenty of "stuff" in outerspace that you nor i have an inkling of.

Anyone care for a model for the damn thing?
http://www.miniature-giant.com/goroloth-Reaper-Dark-Heaven-Legends-DHL-sku-3230-c-144-p-7-pr-10986.html
Now all we need are rules for it to use in BFG games. Better than some gas cloud or asteroid field.

for apoc
points 40k
get a 4x6 board.

roll 10 d6 and a scatter die. if the board is above a model remove it.

cpt orkhab is the only model that stands a chance of defeating the void whale on a roll of 36 on 6d6


bfg

rules: no one controls the void whale. every turn grab an innocent bystander and demand they roll the die or they will never see (beloved one) again.

take a scatter dice and 2 d6. roll. move in the direction and number of inches indicated by die. if it touches a ship it ate it.

i dont care about special saves, armor, or your nova cannon. IT ATE YOUR BATTLESHIP

Hellebore
27-07-2008, 04:13
i dont care about special saves, armor, or your nova cannon. IT ATE YOUR BATTLESHIP

Lol, that would make 'Battleship' a much more interesting game.....

"G4."
"G4....Damn it! You just...WHAT?!... you just ATE my battleship!" :D

Hellebore

olmsted
27-07-2008, 05:36
dang it after reading that i must admit i chuckled a bit

Fire In The Hole
27-07-2008, 12:38
The idea of a void whale is one of the best and funniest ideas I have heard for what lives in the void.

I couldn't imagine it being part of any other race however, its not a tyranid look-alike, and does not seem particularly chaotic or demonic which mabye rules out warp beasty in my book. It might just be a member of a usual, but as yet unexplored, community of void dwelling creatures.

It does beg the question of 'if it exists what else could there possibly be?'- in the similar sirenia family there could be void manatees or dewgongs. Void dolphins that aid lost ships back into main warp channels, Void piranhas- tiny creatures that appear out of the void in titanic shoals of billions, that can strip a battle cruiser of life in mere minutes. Void Kraken, huge squid or octopus,

Minister
27-07-2008, 12:46
I've not read the offending text (yet), but I would like to chime in with the point that eating does not necessarily mean swallowing whole, and even if it does it does not necessarily mean that the whole fleet was swallowed in one gulp. I'm far happier with a beastie that can bite a kroozer in half than one that can gulp down a battlefleet.

Lycannus
27-07-2008, 13:04
I just noticed, when looking at the picture, it says it ate a warband, not a fleet (and one of the ships in the pic looks like a fighta bomba) So maybe its not as big as we thought?

Then again, its lure does look kinda moon-like....

Lt.Bradford
27-07-2008, 16:19
Man, this makes me want to do a Looted Voidwhale as a Space hulk.

chaos0xomega
27-07-2008, 16:30
I think it is you who are failing to understand "science fiction", namely the science bit. While fictional there is still some basis in reality and does not mean you simply make up whatever you want.

Yes, because mass-reactive depleted deuterium bolter shells clearly have a solid relation to science, right? Aside from the name, there is nothing scientific about it. And what about Promethium? If you bother to look it up, promethium is actually a heavy-metal in the real world. How exactly is the Imperium using it as napalm? Oh... that must be the blessing part. I wasn't aware that blessing something had anything at all to do with science either. And how about the Warp? An alternate-dimension inhabited by daemons and made up of human/alien emotions that is somehow punching numerous holes through the fabric of reality and spewing these emotions and daemons, alongside time, back out in our faces. And lets not forget the Orks, the subject of this thread, who get things to work because they think it works. And then there are...


Read my previous post more carefully. Ground attack organisms for the most part lack digestive systems for the processing of RAW materials. The autopsy report on the Gaunt states these ground organisms absort pre-processed materials. A digestive system is not necessarily the same as a system for absorption.

Gotcha!


I can say photosynthesis is not enough because the intensity of radiated from a stellar object decreases in a non-linear fashion with respect to the distance from the emitter. It decreases in proportion to the distance squared. At the deep space distances the Tyranids operate at, the intensity is miniscule, even if one accounts for some higher efficiency photosynthesis reactions. That is why photosynthesis alone is not enough to account for the Tyranid ships' metabolisms and behavior at such distances.

WHAT DEEP SPACE DISTANCE? Tyranids travel through the warp like you and me, in which time is not a factor, for all we know they could expend no energy travelling through the warp, and when they finally exit it, they are within close distance to a star again. Think about this too, if the Tyranids needed to consume stuff to sustain themselves, and we're being all "scientific," how could they POSSIBLY devour ENOUGH to travel from one system to another and still have enough energy fight back against the defenders AND still be able to produce MORE bio-organisms? There's a lot of material on a planet, this is true, but the Imperium needs massive reactors (Plasma, I believe?) with energy outputs equivalent to a star (or several stars) in order to open a hole in reality into the warp. Lets not even talk about the energy requirements to fire something like a nova cannon or a lance battery(which themselves deal damage equivalent to a star). There is no way that they can consume that much from one planet, and still be able to crank out tons of new bio-organisms, and the Tyranids are always depicted as multiplying by some very large numbers every time they consume a single planet.

Sure they might find some uranium or plutonium on a planet, that would make things easy... but they would still need energy to process that and break it down/extract it from the ore...



The very fact the Tyranids need to consume worlds and have things as fat reserves on their bodies indicate they do obey the laws of physics and the requirements of biology. Use of psychic power doesn't mean they suddenly can "magic" away the needs of biology.

In the 4th edition codex there is absolutely no mention of fat reserves, and it's pretty much said flat out that entire worlds are consumed only to provide new bio-organisms, no mention of "energy" requirements anywhere. Besides, the psychic power thing DOES mean they can "magic" away the needs of biology. IF one assumes that the source of ALL TYRANIDS energy is through their psychic link to the hive-mind, problem solved.


In no way does it throw thermodynamics out the window. If the sum total of the universe's energy includes realspace and the warp, then no energy or matter is being created. Bonesinging is drawing warp energy out and solidifying it into matter. We know matter and warp energy is interchangeable in some manner as realspace matter thrown into the warp eventually dissolves into the substance of the warp. Likewise the summoning up of daemons show that warp energy can form solid forms that can affect and be affected by realspace matter (like a bullet). Warp/psychic energy is no more than just another form of energy and all those manipulations of it can still obey thermodynamics. It is possible to decrease local entropy if the entropy of the overall system still increases, and so molding complex creations like wraithbone objects out of the warp doesn't violate anything.

Problems with this: It's always stated that the Warp is some form of alternate-reality or "dimension", why do you assume it's in the same universe?
Where does it say that realspace matter dissolves into the warp? How then do space hulks exist? Wouldn't they just "dissolve" away instead of being deposited back into our reality?


I've not read the offending text (yet), but I would like to chime in with the point that eating does not necessarily mean swallowing whole, and even if it does it does not necessarily mean that the whole fleet was swallowed in one gulp. I'm far happier with a beastie that can bite a kroozer in half than one that can gulp down a battlefleet.

But that would diminish it's coolness. Also, the fact that the little pic shows it being big enough to swallow at least 3 ships(or fighta bommas?) whole...


I just noticed, when looking at the picture, it says it ate a warband, not a fleet (and one of the ships in the pic looks like a fighta bomba) So maybe its not as big as we thought?

Already mentioned that, but the other two look to be like kroozers or something, not fighta-bomma's and the drawings aren't in scale, so we may never know.

Ekranoplan
27-07-2008, 16:42
So, basically what you said is that the 40K universe and the Warp doesn't follow the laws of physics. if the basic building blocks of matter, and therefore the the study of physics, do not exist...how do rules and laws still apply?

Its impossible to determine. What can you tell me about what its like to live in a 5th dimensional world? You cannot, as we only live in a 4 dimensional world. 3 space, 1 time. Thus I cant tell you much about the Warp's own Laws, as I am sure the knowledge would drive me to madness, much like many ill fatted characters in the 40k back story.




And no, sorcery does not follow the laws of physics, energy can neither be created nor destroyed, nor can matter every truly be destroyed. Tapping into the warp to cast a spell throws both of these out the window, especially if you're eldar (bonesinging).

The laws of conservation of matter only apply in a closed system. Trying define the Universe (with all of these new theories about alternate dimensions and realities running around) as a closed system is pointless. ( of course, matter still comes from somewhere, if we cant determine that location it is basically coming out of thin air)

Plus, as Iracundus put it rather nicely: If the sum total of the universe's energy includes realspace and the warp, then no energy or matter is being created. Bonesinging is drawing warp energy out and solidifying it into matter. We know matter and warp energy is interchangeable in some manner as realspace matter thrown into the warp eventually dissolves into the substance of the warp.


Yes, because mass-reactive depleted deuterium bolter shells clearly have a solid relation to science, right? Aside from the name, there is nothing scientific about it. And what about Promethium? If you bother to look it up, promethium is actually a heavy-metal in the real world. How exactly is the Imperium using it as napalm? Oh... that must be the blessing part.

I dont need to look up promethium. It doesn't matter what it actually is, all that matters is that the Imperium uses it for napalm and fuel, and that it sounds cool (pro as in propane). We all know the napalm is science fact. You need to think more abstractly. Promethium isn't actually promethium, its just a name we gave it. We made it up, like numbers. Also, the Imperim speaks and High and Low Gothic, so the actual name is probably very different. (Perhaps promethium was its root word way down the line?)

It is also unfair to compare metaphysical concepts like human emotions, Warp demons, and et cetera to the explanations of how psychics powers do not violate the laws of physics. Its all academic, for if psychic powers were real they certainly could not violate the laws of physics. If they appear to violate the laws of physics, then its only because we don't have enough understanding of the powers, or the laws.


Problems with this: It's always stated that the Warp is some form of alternate-reality or "dimension", why do you assume it's in the same universe?

Its irrelevant. The Warp and Real space are linked.


But that would diminish it's coolness. Also, the fact that the little pic shows it being big enough to swallow at least 3 ships(or fighta bommas?) whole...

How cool would have Jaws been if the shark ate the boat in one gulp? Not as exciting. I think a bunch of orks trying to fight off an angry space whale would be just as cool as a giant creature consuming a fleet whole.

MrBigMr
27-07-2008, 19:25
Also, Kaptin' Orkhab's space whaling army is incredible. If you decide to make it, MrBigMr, you have to post photos of them here.
I thought about it, then shrugged it aside as I had other armies to work on. But, something came up along the weekend that just was like a voice from beyond telling me "git yer lazy **** crackin'!"

I was at a WHFB tournament and the organizers played some practical jokes on the younger and less experienced players who weren't familiar with Orcs and Goblins. One thing they convinced them of (not at all cheating, just messing with them), was that the Orcs have a 75pts. one use special item that can be used to summon Aquatic Goblins from ponds, lakes and rivers. They're like goblins, but are skirmishers, blue in colour with webbed feet and hands and use blowpipes. And that the guys were planning to convert some Skull Pass Goblins into Aquatic Goblins.


So water and orc/goblin theme mixed. I always wanted the Orkhab army to have grots not only as mobs, but also as sort of crewmen on tanks (manning guns, etc.) and such. The aquatic goblin thing got me thinking about a night goblin with a gas/divingmask, tank on the back and some handheld speargun, blowpipe or something as their grot blastas.

Now I just have to do it. Dammit, I blame you all for this.

olmsted
27-07-2008, 19:53
im sorry but i dont really know what your talking about. please tell me alittle more please.

Terazeal
27-07-2008, 20:19
If you look closely at the picture of the Void Whale on page 162 in the 5th Edition book you can see that the thin long bit on the end of its tongue is attached to what looks like a planet or moon with craters and such which gives you a clue to its size as well as telling you that it is a materium dwelling creature. It is also likely rare, as this is the only reference to it I've seen in the backstory of Warhammer 40,000.

baphomael
27-07-2008, 21:52
I thought about it, then shrugged it aside as I had other armies to work on. But, something came up along the weekend that just was like a voice from beyond telling me "git yer lazy **** crackin'!"

I was at a WHFB tournament and the organizers played some practical jokes on the younger and less experienced players who weren't familiar with Orcs and Goblins. One thing they convinced them of (not at all cheating, just messing with them), was that the Orcs have a 75pts. one use special item that can be used to summon Aquatic Goblins from ponds, lakes and rivers. They're like goblins, but are skirmishers, blue in colour with webbed feet and hands and use blowpipes. And that the guys were planning to convert some Skull Pass Goblins into Aquatic Goblins.


So water and orc/goblin theme mixed. I always wanted the Orkhab army to have grots not only as mobs, but also as sort of crewmen on tanks (manning guns, etc.) and such. The aquatic goblin thing got me thinking about a night goblin with a gas/divingmask, tank on the back and some handheld speargun, blowpipe or something as their grot blastas.

Now I just have to do it. Dammit, I blame you all for this.

Actually, those aquatic goblins are not far off the truth. There was a white dwarf article detailing different 'types' of goblinoid - from burly hill goblins to blue webbed footed aquatic goblins that used blowpipes. IIRC these aquatic goblins were skirmishers armed with blowpipes that acted a lot like skinks.



If you look closely at the picture of the Void Whale on page 162 in the 5th Edition book you can see that the thin long bit on the end of its tongue is attached to what looks like a planet or moon with craters and such which gives you a clue to its size as well as telling you that it is a materium dwelling creature. It is also likely rare, as this is the only reference to it I've seen in the backstory of Warhammer 40,000.

My thought is that that 'planet' is actually bait, in the way angler fish have a glowing orb sticking out of their face to lure in prey.

Fire In The Hole
27-07-2008, 22:07
If it is a planet or at least a moon on its lure that must mean that it is a truly vast whale, making it seem as though it is capable of devouring a fleet.

The image does seem to show cruiser like ships next to the fightabomba, so the size of the fleet could be questioned although a fightabomba could not act as a standalone ship- it is too small and does not have necassary warp drives for long travels in the void etc. Its inclusion could be there to show that the orks attempted to fight the void whale.

chaos0xomega
27-07-2008, 22:27
Ignoring all this talk of physics, because it has very little to do with the topic, and still doesn't really have a point to it:

Its irrelevant. The Warp and Real space are linked.

They weren't always. Indeed the established fluff says that they were once distinctly seperate realities, and then psychic powers or somethingorother wore away at the barrier that seperated the two.


If you look closely at the picture of the Void Whale on page 162 in the 5th Edition book you can see that the thin long bit on the end of its tongue is attached to what looks like a planet or moon with craters and such which gives you a clue to its size as well as telling you that it is a materium dwelling creature. It is also likely rare, as this is the only reference to it I've seen in the backstory of Warhammer 40,000.

Once again, brought up by me 3-4 pages ago...

And although this is the only reference to it I've seen, I had a discussion with some friends to me, and both have seen references made to it elsewhere.


The image does seem to show cruiser like ships next to the fightabomba, so the size of the fleet could be questioned although a fightabomba could not act as a standalone ship- it is too small and does not have necassary warp drives for long travels in the void etc. Its inclusion could be there to show that the orks attempted to fight the void whale.

Also keep in mind none of the images are drawn to scale. For all intents and purposes that is a fighta-bomma and those are kroozers.

Fire In The Hole
27-07-2008, 22:44
I second the thought on reducing the physics use for a while- my head is beginning to get messed- thermodynamics etc,

i only understand it as total chaos, the number of times I have read about cases where reality getting torn into (khornes great blade cut a slash across the sky to allow a sea of boiling blood to pour onto the planet.....)

The main issue here is large seemingly benign mammals luring and devouring entire fleets of ships in the inky blackness of the void. I don't know why the idea of this has not crossed my mind before, it could explain the reason why taskforces or trading vessels dissappear.

Terazeal
27-07-2008, 23:53
It doesn't seem like the planet/moon is a bait as it seems to be attached to the tongue, not an angler fish-like appendage. Unless the Void Whale is so huge that a fleet would land on the planet/moon without noticing the giant space animal or at least the large starless area on one side of the planet/moon, although Orks might be so interested in pillaging the planet/moon as to not notice. Not to mention that it would be much easier for a Void Whale to stay at some point around a star and gobble up the stuff that comes around than to wait for some starships to randomly fly into the Void Whale's mouth.

Ekranoplan
28-07-2008, 00:10
If the Void Whale were large enough to consume a fleet whole, I would imagine it being more like a Void Jelly Fish. It would have no real shape or form or mass. It could also cover a huge area of space, maybe its a linked colony of many different organisms?

It feeds off of random particles, detritus, and radiation. If a fleet just happens to crash into it, it might very well just become immobile and stranded, or the creature may be able to eat it.



They weren't always. Indeed the established Fluff says that they were once distinctly seperate realities, and then psychic powers or somethingorother wore away at the barrier that seperated the two.

Indeed, but its not until after the breaking of the barrier that we see a lot of these seemingly impossible acts, like a gash being cut across the sky for boiling blood to rain down. In the end, the fact ends and the fiction begins somewhere, but its a blurry line, more so then most imagine. I find this blurriness to be the real point of interest.

chaos0xomega
28-07-2008, 01:07
Once again though, the void whale is CLEARLY SHOWN to be a whale, and not a "void jellyfish."

Also, why is it so hard to accept such thing as a "void whale?"
You're playing a game where the savior (and ruler) of humanity is a 6-8 foot tall Immortal Corpse sitting on top of a solid-gold throne which serves as an entry way into an alternate-reality populated by daemons, evil gods, and eldar(its a webway portal in a section of the webway destroyed by the EoT). Every day millions of "psykers" are sacrificed in his name in order to keep a beacon glowing that projects a guiding light into this alternate-reality through which blind "psykers" can steer 10-mile long starships without becoming lost in this daemon infested wasteland. Add to this that the guardians of the Imperium are 6-8 foot tall genetically engineered super-humans wearing armor that can withstand rather ridiculous amounts of firepower...

Why is it you can accept all that and more... but not something as simple and kickass as a giant space-whale...?

Lord Malice
28-07-2008, 02:46
Sounds like an awesome beasty to me, a space version of the sea monster featured in many popular tales or as seen in 'The Adventures of Baron Munchausen'. I deffinitely agree that Void = Space in 9/10 instances and the idea of a giant space whale seems a lot better than yet another warp entity. As to a post earlier that mentioned a Void Shark, well that explains where the Space Sharks get their name from.

I also second the idea that it sounds akin to a Farscape Boodong, that was the first thing that occured to me too. The Boodong's gut was in short a massive furnace so I don't see why a void whale could not exist in a similar manner, eating debris and the occasional unwary traveller. Like the Boodong I imagine it to be a rare creature found in the true depths of space or on the edges of star systems, well away from the prying eyes of sentient creatures.

Emperor's Grace
28-07-2008, 16:10
Actually, there are several (non-warp) possibilities:

1) Creature doesn’t exist but was orkified report of a previously known/unknown spatial phenomena that destroyed their fleet

2) Something that large exists but isn’t believed as it begs the incredible (like giant squid in RL were thought a myth)

3) Something smaller ate the fleet and got embellished by survivors.

The drawing doesn’t have to be taken as literal any more than the dragons drawn on old maps.

It’s possible that “void” refers to it’s appearance (coloration looks like star field) and that it can’t be “seen” except by sensors which are discounted as they can’t “see” what the sensors say is there...


Idea for warp possibility:

It’s not a warp creature but a “void” in the warp (reality storm/rift). The orks were “eaten” by it while traveling the warp and fell into an unknown time/place with possible utter destruction of the ships.

To think about:


I'm under the impression that no one mentionned the simple possibility that there is no such thing as a Void Whale! The Void Whale is merely a reference to the "here there be dragons" of the maps of old.


There's a problem with your 'ere be dragons' theory. There is a PICTURE (or a caricature) of a void whale eating ork ships, AND it's not being told from the Ork perspective, it's the Imperial.

But there were also pictures of dragons on those RL maps...


maybe in between ork snacks it lives off space plankton, or it pulls a Unicron and in fact, actually chews on planets, tyranids do it, why not a void whale?


Apparently it isn't actually an angler fish type thing on the tongue, as the design podcast mentioned the picture being of a Void Whale eating a planet. Of course, I'm all up for calling that crud, and going with the angler-fish thing, but just thought I'd mention it.

No one says that the creature ate the fleet on purpose. It’s possibly a planet/moon eater that ate them by accident on it’s way to a planet.


In the army during an exercise some guys took a shrapnel mine (just a dummy with a siren inside it), wrapped it to a tree, attached a trip wire to the detonator and tried the wire to a glow stick. Sure enough, someone picked it up and killed his entire squad.

So never underestimate the stupidity of people.

This reminds me of a WWII boobytrap that I read of in school - A telephone handset in a Japanese bunker. After the bunker was taken the phone rang (presumably called from another bunker) and a squad member picked up the receiver without thinking about it....”boom”


Tyranids travel through the warp

Do they? How does that work with their slow progress into the galaxy? The shadow? Etc... This is an honest question, not sarcasm. I thought they were the one race (other than necrons FTL) that didn’t use the warp to travel.

MrBigMr
28-07-2008, 16:51
This reminds me of a WWII boobytrap that I read of in school - A telephone handset in a Japanese bunker. After the bunker was taken the phone rang (presumably called from another bunker) and a squad member picked up the receiver without thinking about it....”boom”
It's always good to draw on a basic reactions, which are so rooted that they are triggered without anyone having time to think. Think about it, how unnatural it is not to answer a phone? Especially military phone, because you know it's something important. So you hear a radio or phone ring and you automaticly answer it without even thinking about it really.

Same with a possible lure planet. You find a fertile planet and settle it, because what could be dangerous about a little ol' planet? I once wrote a short story of Necron's using a lush, fertile world to trick people to settle upon it. They do anything to keep the settlers alive, such as fend of possible enemy incursions without the settlers knowing and even spread chemicals into the waters and air to keep the people healthy and happy.

And when the time is right and a harvest ship arrives, they break out from beneath the planet, kill all resistance and subdue the people. They are taken to underground complexes and their energies beamed to the ships in orbit to be taken to their god. Then all signs of their presense is erased and once the Imperials come to see why there is no replies from the planet, they find a planed void of people. With no known cause to the problem they decide to resettle.

Emperor's Grace
28-07-2008, 16:59
I once wrote a short story of Necron's using a lush, fertile world to trick people to settle upon it. They do anything to keep the settlers alive, such as fend of possible enemy incursions without the settlers knowing and even spread chemicals into the waters and air to keep the people healthy and happy.

And when the time is right and a harvest ship arrives, they break out from beneath the planet, kill all resistance and subdue the people. They are taken to underground complexes

Inspired by the Morlocks/Eloi?


Then all signs of their presense is erased and once the Imperials come to see why there is no replies from the planet, they find a planed void of people. With no known cause to the problem they decide to resettle.

A little "ROANOKE" element too.

Is this the "Thousand Swords" in your sig? Might take me a little read...

Ekranoplan
28-07-2008, 17:21
Once again though, the void whale is CLEARLY SHOWN to be a whale, and not a "void jellyfish."

Also, why is it so hard to accept such thing as a "void whale?"
You're playing a game where the savior (and ruler) of humanity is a 6-8 foot tall Immortal Corpse sitting on top of a solid-gold throne which serves as an entry way into an alternate-reality populated by daemons, evil gods, and eldar(its a webway portal in a section of the webway destroyed by the EoT). Every day millions of "psykers" are sacrificed in his name in order to keep a beacon glowing that projects a guiding light into this alternate-reality through which blind "psykers" can steer 10-mile long starships without becoming lost in this daemon infested wasteland. Add to this that the guardians of the Imperium are 6-8 foot tall genetically engineered super-humans wearing armor that can withstand rather ridiculous amounts of firepower...

Why is it you can accept all that and more... but not something as simple and kickass as a giant space-whale...?

I have not said that I thought the Void Whale was an unacceptable idea, I have just been proposing ways it could actually work. Thats what I have been saying this entire time with all of the physics stuff and such. Nothing in the picture gives us any clue of the life cycle of Void Whales, so its all open to speculation. Its all been in support of the Void Whale.

chaos0xomega
28-07-2008, 17:21
But there were also pictures of dragons on those RL maps...


You can't compare the two. It's a timeline of events told from an Imperial (or more likely an objective out-of-world) standpoint. Why would an objective viewer state something so clearly as "Azrags (or whatever his name is) warband is devoured by an errant void whale" if it's based off of embellished/exaggerated info/stories? If that was the case, it would be "Azrags warband is rumored to have been devoured by an errant void whale." There is also the slight problem that the warband was DEVOURED which implies that there weren't any survivors to embellish the tale, or tell anyone what had happened, meaning anyone except an objective viewer would have no idea what really happened to them.


Do they? How does that work with their slow progress into the galaxy? The shadow? Etc... This is an honest question, not sarcasm. I thought they were the one race (other than necrons FTL) that didn’t use the warp to travel.

It's in the Tyranid codex, I believe in the section dealing with Kryptman. The line that declares they travel through the warp, went something like this: Deathwatch Marines loyal to Kryptman boarded a Tyranid hive ship after it had exited the warp. The Tyranids were still in a state of stasis..." and I can't remember what happens next. BUT it does point to tyranids being capable of warp travel. If I check my BFG books theres probably something more concrete there.

MrBigMr
28-07-2008, 21:11
Inspired by the Morlocks/Eloi?

A little "ROANOKE" element too.
Now that I think about it, yes, there is a little of that in there. I haven't really read the book, only seen the new movie which sucked dingos's kidneys. I was merely going for a harvest theme in it.


Is this the "Thousand Swords" in your sig? Might take me a little read...
No, that's a different story I once cocked up as an army background for an army I haven't made yet, though I might once the Necrons get a new codex and some new stuff. The current one is a little too bland for it.

The story is called Silent Storm and I haven't posted it up yet. But I will at some point as soon as I've done some filing to it and have the time.

ColonelWicked
28-07-2008, 21:54
Using the german translation to translate it back, it's a space whale.

So at least the discussion is settled for us Germans :o

borithan
28-07-2008, 22:00
I was at a WHFB tournament and the organizers played some practical jokes on the younger and less experienced players who weren't familiar with Orcs and Goblins.
Not on topic, but this just reminded me what the GW staff did at my local GW, on the release of 5th Ed. The small kids who got the first copies they told "Wally's in there. First to find him gets a bookmark." Following this they said "The first person to tell us how many space marines there are in the rulebook gets a bookmark. Both models and in the art work."

MrBigMr
29-07-2008, 00:10
Due to popular demand, I got around posting the damn Necron story up. Here, Silent Storm (http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2818045). Maybe I should finish that Heroes of the Space Marines entry piece as well and put it up (SS was a Planetkill entry). And I should get that third novel, Tears of Blood, finished as well... Too much to do, even more time (like I have anything better to do in the summer). Better get cracking then.

And naturally that Orkhad's White Whalers army needs some good fluff behind it. God, imagine writing it all in Orkoid...
"Kall me Orkhad."

Dominus_Serui
29-07-2008, 00:54
How cool would have Jaws been if the shark ate the boat in one gulp? Not as exciting. I think a bunch of orks trying to fight off an angry space whale would be just as cool as a giant creature consuming a fleet whole.

Its called Shark Attack 3...anyone doubting Void Whales should watch that movie before shunning the beauty of the concept.

baphomael
29-07-2008, 02:24
I've noticed a lot of ideas being thrown about that the void whale is a non-existent creature within the fluff that is used as an explanation for fleets/ships etc disappearing and such like that.

Of course, I dont think anybody has brought this up yet (at least, not that I've seen, sorry if anyone has done already) but the description notes that it is an *errant* void whale. If we look at the definition of errant - most often, it means deviating from the regular or proper course; erring; straying.


This suggests, then, that the void whale that gobbled up the Ork fleet was, shall we say, an unexpected surprise. Describing it as an errant void whale suggests that perhaps it was roaming about somewhere it wouldnt, normally, be found.

Either way, to describe it as an errant void whale suggests that there are perhaps places one would expect to find void whales, but this one had veered off its normal course (anyone remember that whale that randomly appeared in the Thames before *drowning*?!).

Thus, it suggests that void whales are probably real (as real as a fictional creature can be :p) for enough of their behavioral patterns to be known about to judge whether the void whale was errant or not.

HK-47
29-07-2008, 05:54
Yeah, baphomael I noticed it to but I didn't bring it up, because I really didn't get the implications at the time. If the space faring races of the cosmos know enough about void whales to declare this one errant; then why has no one every mentioned it before in the fluff? That also brings up another question of, what is the normal hang out for such a creature?

olmsted
29-07-2008, 06:08
its just never mattered. lets just take it as the joke it is and understand that orks are supposed to be the fun race.

Hierarch
29-07-2008, 08:02
A new Warp Bast, large enough to consume an entire fleet. Simple as that.

Is there just one "whale" or more?

Dominus_Serui
29-07-2008, 10:17
Seeing as its 'a' void whale and not 'the' void whale...I'd presume its possible that more than one exist.

baphomael
29-07-2008, 11:40
Seeing as its 'a' void whale and not 'the' void whale...I'd presume its possible that more than one exist.

And to be an errant void whale, the possibility for a non-errant void whale has to exist.

Killgore
29-07-2008, 12:02
you'v just given ammunition to the "warp whale" crowd,

now they'l all jump up and down saying that it must have strayed from warp space to real space

Tonberry
29-07-2008, 12:24
For the benefit of those without access to 5th edition, I made a rough mock-up of the image in paint :) :

http://img68.imageshack.us/img68/7531/voidwhalerj7.jpg

Dominus_Serui
29-07-2008, 12:47
Also...would like to note...for the benefit of all the 'it has to be warp' people...the thing is shown devouring a WARBAND's fleet...not an entire WAAGH fleet...ships shown beeing a fighta-bomma and what looks like a pair of escorts/ramships.

I meen, if we really want to point out the grandois ammount of unusual things in the same picture...there's...Orks Raiding a Necron Tomb World and stealing teleporters, a Iron-Warriors fortress world ringed by a huge space station in the shape of the Star of Chaos (as in encircling the entire planet) - a hollow planet with a planet-sized Worm Creature (al-la Star Wars, though this one is evidently a 'Nid) and a gateway into another dimension that the Orks go into and reemerge with extradimensional weapons.

Szfraniec
29-07-2008, 14:17
Are we really discussing where an errant void whale comes from? Seems fairly obvious to me that these are massive creatures that live in the void...and this one wandered out of the void and into the galaxy...hence its being errant.

MrBigMr
29-07-2008, 15:36
It's a big *****' thing that can eat ships. Do we need to know more? You see a 50 foot bear with 5 heads and a long tail, breathing fire on stuff, do you start wondering if it's a natural being or some extradimensional abomination, or do you get your gun out and shoot the bastard?

heretics bane
29-07-2008, 15:40
Could it just be a generic term for ships lost in the warp?

Back during the great age of discovery seamen would have tales of boats being swalloed by whales and kraken.

Simon Sez
29-07-2008, 15:43
You see a 50 foot bear with 5 heads and a long tail, breathing fire on stuff, do you start wondering if it's a natural being or some extradimensional abomination, or do you get your gun out and shoot the bastard? Pray for mercy from . . . VOID BEAR!!!!

Ekranoplan
29-07-2008, 15:53
I don't think the Void Whale came from the warp, but I wouldn't rule out the possibility of warp creatures entering into our universe and roaming around.

Perhaps the Void Whale is errant in the sense that it was orbiting a planet, as opposed to being in the void?

In the picture it looked like there was one ork escort with some fightabommas, mostly resembling a brute ram ship. Ork escorts are certainly large enough to hold an entire warband, atleast according to BFG. It wouldn't be to hard for the Void Whale to eat it, but I don't think it was one bite, but many smaller ones with plenty of left overs floating around.

Tapok
29-07-2008, 17:01
VOID WHALE! Sounds like the kind of thing a guardsman might yell after a massive kegger. VOID WHALE!!!

Sneak into someone's room at night. Stand over them. Get close. Yell it.

VOIIIIIIDDDDD WHHAAAAAAALLLLLEEEEEE

Terazeal
29-07-2008, 17:04
its just never mattered. lets just take it as the joke it is and understand that orks are supposed to be the fun race.

Right; a "fun" race that delights in mass murder and tries to get the best engines of destruction as possible. Although that's probably the best we can get in Warhammer 40,000.

chaos0xomega
29-07-2008, 18:16
Of course, I dont think anybody has brought this up yet (at least, not that I've seen, sorry if anyone has done already) but the description notes that it is an *errant* void whale. If we look at the definition of errant - most often, it means deviating from the regular or proper course; erring; straying.

Why does noone read my posts!? :cries:


now they'l all jump up and down saying that it must have strayed from warp space to real space

I've brought up the word errant 2 or 3 times in my posts. Why is it ammunition now and not then? Besides, there is no ammunition. Errant can mean a lot of things, and there's already more stuff to suggest that it is a real-space creature than a warp-based one.


Also...would like to note...for the benefit of all the 'it has to be warp' people...the thing is shown devouring a WARBAND's fleet...not an entire WAAGH fleet...ships shown beeing a fighta-bomma and what looks like a pair of escorts/ramships.

ramships/escorts are still pretty damned big though, aren't they?


It's a big *****' thing that can eat ships. Do we need to know more? You see a 50 foot bear with 5 heads and a long tail, breathing fire on stuff, do you start wondering if it's a natural being or some extradimensional abomination, or do you get your gun out and shoot the bastard?

DAMN STRAIGHT!


Could it just be a generic term for ships lost in the warp?

There is a picture, it doesn't appear to be told from an in-game perspective (seeing as how whoever drew up the images and the timeline seem to be pretty omniscient), and once again use of the word errant.


Back during the great age of discovery seamen would have tales of boats being swalloed by whales and kraken.

Which is where this undoubtedly came from. And to be fair, the possibility for both to have happened isn't all that far-fetched:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaleship_Essex
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mocha_Dick
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Alexander_%28ship%29

Swallowed whole would be an exaggeration, but no story I've ever heard had a ship being swallowed hole by a whale (or the kraken for that matter). The ships were merely destroyed and sunk, and the dudes in the water were eaten.

The Kraken is a little more far-fetched though. Although there have been documented cases of giant squid/octopi attacking vessels, even in the modern day, none have ever been sunk, to my knowledge.

Emperor's Grace
29-07-2008, 20:31
You can't compare the two. It's a timeline of events told from an Imperial (or more likely an objective out-of-world) standpoint. Why would an objective viewer state something so clearly as "Azrags (or whatever his name is) warband is devoured by an errant void whale" if it's based off of embellished/exaggerated info/stories? If that was the case, it would be "Azrags warband is rumored to have been devoured by an errant void whale." There is also the slight problem that the warband was DEVOURED which implies that there weren't any survivors to embellish the tale, or tell anyone what had happened, meaning anyone except an objective viewer would have no idea what really happened to them.

Precision in language is difficult, even for the learned. Add that to the general lack of education and it's hard to make such assumptions.

I think the comparison is direct. How did the cartographers know "here be dragons"? Survivors or observers told them of the attacks.

Note that it doesn't say "here there be rumored to be dragons by an untrustworthy jacktar with an education little better than a street urchin" on the old maps. The cartographers heard the stories of giant tentacled beasts tearing ships in half (from the marooned survivor that was later picked up or the fellow who saw the dark shapes moving in the sea) and wrote it in as fact.

Devoured implies little as to completion. I can devour an ear of corn without eating the cob....

olmsted
29-07-2008, 20:38
Right; a "fun" race that delights in mass murder and tries to get the best engines of destruction as possible. Although that's probably the best we can get in Warhammer 40,000.

so all the armies in 40k delight in mass murder. if your trying to spin a tree hugger point of view into this game then your playing the wrong game buddy.

what part of Grim and Dark dont you understand? the orks are the comedians of 40k get over it and accept that GW tends to have fun when it concerns the orkkies.

Terazeal
29-07-2008, 20:48
I'm not saying that other races aren't exactly the same. However I am saying that it's quite difficult to find anything funny in Warhammer 40,000 backstory, including Orks, because of all the murder and destruction.

chaos0xomega
29-07-2008, 20:55
Precision in language is difficult, even for the learned. Add that to the general lack of education and it's hard to make such assumptions.

I think the comparison is direct. How did the cartographers know "here be dragons"? Survivors or observers told them of the attacks.

Note that it doesn't say "here there be rumored to be dragons by an untrustworthy jacktar with an education little better than a street urchin" on the old maps. The cartographers heard the stories of giant tentacled beasts tearing ships in half (from the marooned survivor that was later picked up or the fellow who saw the dark shapes moving in the sea) and wrote it in as fact.

Devoured implies little as to completion. I can devour an ear of corn without eating the cob....


There is still the slight problem that it ISN'T A MAP. It's a pictographic history, told from the perspective of an OMNIESCIENT NARRATOR. Rumors and stories don't apply, since it's ALL FACT.

There's also a slight problem with your whole "here be dragons" theory. That phrase was NEVER used to literally mean a location where actual dragons and other such beasts live. It was a phrase that was used to describe lands/regions that were unknown and unmapped. Yolu're taking the term literally when it was never used as such.

MrBigMr
29-07-2008, 20:58
Right; a "fun" race that delights in mass murder and tries to get the best engines of destruction as possible. Although that's probably the best we can get in Warhammer 40,000.
Is it any better than Marines put in the cloack of heroism while promoting hatred, xenophobia, genocide, etc.?

I'll tell you a little story. There once was a scorpion that came to a river. It couldn't cross it and walked along the shore until it came across a turtle.

"Can you take me across?" The scorpion asked.
"No," said the turtle "you'll sting me."
"I promise I won't." Assured the scorpion.

So the turtle took the scorpion on its back and they headed over the river. Half way through the scorpion stung the turtle in the neck, paralyzing it.

"Why did you do that," cried the turtle. "now we both are going to die."
"Because it's in my nature." said the scorpion.


Orks don't do what they do out of spite, lust, power or anything, they do it for the same reasons a cheeta chases an antilope or a shark chews on a surfer. They do it because they are programmed to do it. They do it because to them it's as natural as breathing and eating. Fighting makes them bigger and stronger. They have no education nor culture, everything they need is programmed into their very genes like ants or something.

The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn. And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask. We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mocha_Dick
Oh God how I lolled on that one. Mocha Dick is pretty much a direct translation of a local, racist slang reference to a man of the African persuasion. Sorry, nothing funny about that, just caught my eye when I saw it.


However I am saying that it's quite difficult to find anything funny in Warhammer 40,000 backstory, including Orks, because of all the murder and destruction.
"Difficult to find anything funny..." How about the whole concept of PG grimdark? Seriously, 40K as is goes against all common sense and turns into a parody as soons as you read a little too much into it. Murder and destruction... You get more out of the evening news.

HK-47
29-07-2008, 22:57
People shouldn't be so hard on the Orks. There just doing whats natural to them, I mean you don't blame a dog for wanting to chase cars do you.

The story is obviously inspired by old stories about sea monsters attacking boats, like moby dick and various other stories. It suppose to play on humanities fears of what lives out there in the unknown places of the world, the orks are involved simply because crazy things can happen to them and no one really minds that. I just find this fluff tidbit so much more interesting then the others in the book, and its making me think how such a creature would work in realty.

Drasanil
30-07-2008, 05:06
However I am saying that it's quite difficult to find anything funny in Warhammer 40,000 backstory, including Orks, because of all the murder and destruction.

:wtf:

It's pretty much all murder and destruction... and well xenophobia too. If you are so easily offended (or at least not amused) by a fictional despiction of such things used as a critique of human nature, you shouldn't even be posting on this forum or supporting the company which perpetrates these views.

Terazeal
31-07-2008, 02:35
Why not; the games fun, and the background's entertaining; just not funny.

And by the way, I would appreciate greatly if people would stop extrapolating my statements beyond "Killing isn't funny.", thank you.

Drasanil
31-07-2008, 05:37
And by the way, I would appreciate greatly if people would stop extrapolating my statements beyond "Killing isn't funny.", thank you.

No offence, but that is pretty much what your previous statement boils down too, not much need for extrapolation there, especially when you said:
"However I am saying that it's quite difficult to find anything funny in Warhammer 40,000 backstory etc..."

You do realise your posts are rather hypocritical in and of themselves, it's not proper to find fictional deaths "funny" but it is perfectly acceptable to be entertained by them:eyebrows:

ironcurtin117
31-07-2008, 15:04
Is it any better than Marines put in the cloack of heroism while promoting hatred, xenophobia, genocide, etc.?

I'll tell you a little story. There once was a scorpion that came to a river. It couldn't cross it and walked along the shore until it came across a turtle.

"Can you take me across?" The scorpion asked.
"No," said the turtle "you'll sting me."
"I promise I won't." Assured the scorpion.

So the turtle took the scorpion on its back and they headed over the river. Half way through the scorpion stung the turtle in the neck, paralyzing it.

"Why did you do that," cried the turtle. "now we both are going to die."
"Because it's in my nature." said the scorpion.


This is the fable that inspired the Megadeth song of the same name right? And I agree, 40k fluff isn't an OVERT assertion of morality or happy goodness, it's just a half-ar*ed attempt at saying that humanity and all the other races are base creatures, they do what's in their nature. kill

Richter Kless
31-07-2008, 15:41
Why not; the games fun, and the background's entertaining; just not funny.

And by the way, I would appreciate greatly if people would stop extrapolating my statements beyond "Killing isn't funny.", thank you.

Going to have to disagree here.
If done right in literature or film, killing can definately be made funny.

borithan
31-07-2008, 17:37
Is it any better than Marines put in the cloack of heroism while promoting hatred, xenophobia, genocide, etc.?

I'll tell you a little story. There once was a scorpion that came to a river. It couldn't cross it and walked along the shore until it came across a turtle.

"Can you take me across?" The scorpion asked.
"No," said the turtle "you'll sting me."
"I promise I won't." Assured the scorpion.

So the turtle took the scorpion on its back and they headed over the river. Half way through the scorpion stung the turtle in the neck, paralyzing it.

"Why did you do that," cried the turtle. "now we both are going to die."
"Because it's in my nature." said the scorpion.

Erm... this is going to reveal me as the geek I am... wait, I am posting on a 40k forum, so thats a given... but a Star Trek geek. The only place I have ever seen that story before was on Star Trek Voyager... is that where you got it from (I presume they took an actual fable/whatever it is when they used it in the script, so I am guessing possibly not)?

MrBigMr
31-07-2008, 17:54
Erm... this is going to reveal me as the geek I am... wait, I am posting on a 40k forum, so thats a given... but a Star Trek geek. The only place I have ever seen that story before was on Star Trek Voyager... is that where you got it from (I presume they took an actual fable/whatever it is when they used it in the script, so I am guessing possibly not)?
http://www.snopes.com/critters/malice/scorpion.asp

And it was C.S.I...
*hides in shame*

Terazeal
31-07-2008, 20:11
it's not proper to find fictional deaths "funny" but it is perfectly acceptable to be entertained by them:eyebrows:

And I am entertained by them; there is more to entertainment than being funny.

MrBigMr
31-07-2008, 21:40
If anyone is interested on that Ork army, I started planning it and at the moment have the following list made, though I don't know much about how it works
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155533

HK-47
31-07-2008, 22:43
If anyone is interested on that Ork army, I started planning it and at the moment have the following list made, though I don't know much about how it works
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=155533

That's great, I don't know anything about Ork army lists thought so I'm keeping my nose out of it, but still I can't what to see it.

MrBigMr
31-07-2008, 23:04
Neither can I, but no one should hold their breat as of yet. I won't be starting any time soon. Hell, I don't even have the 5th ed. rulebook yet.

Logarithm Udgaur
01-08-2008, 00:53
@HK-47
Is you avatar from here? http://www.cthulhu-themovie.com/


What the shock were we talking about again? Oh ya, Void Whale(s). I am starting a "Save the Void Whales" drawing. Anyone know where I can get some bumper stickers made?

I agree that the Void Whale is a reference to the "Hear be Dragons" on older earth maps, but most things that were considered tall tales by the people of the time have turned out to have an element of truth to them. Kraken=Giant Squid, Mermaid=Manatee (if you are stuck on an all male ship for months you really will get that horny), Sea Serpent=Probably also Giant Squid, just the tentacles, Cyclops=Abnormal birth defect, most likely explaining why most such stories come from islands (limited gene pool).

Joe Kutz
01-08-2008, 01:13
I seem to recall a drawing in one of the older books of a Void Whale - or at least a large whale looking creature on a background of stars. Can't remember which book it was in though.

chaos0xomega
01-08-2008, 04:25
Actually cyclops stories came from misassembled dinosaur/prehistoric creature fossils that were found on mediterranean islands. And I so want a void whale bumper sticker....

Hellebore
01-08-2008, 04:39
The cyclops is most likely from finding mammoth remains.

http://www.amnh.org/exhibitions/mythiccreatures/land/images/2Dwarf-elephant-skull_lg.jpg

The mammoth's (and all elephantidae for that matter) nasal cavity sits in the 'forehead' area whilst its eyes are low on the sides of the skull. Baby mammoths had skulls ~ 2 feet across with little or no tusks.

To an ignorant farmer 2500 years ago, finding a giant skeleton with two arms, two legs and a skull with a large 'eye socket' in the middle of it would have been pretty convincing.

Personally I think that void whales are:

a) Real
b) Huge
c) Known dangers within the galaxy
d) Naturally evolved non-tyranids

Why?

Because it's more interesting that way. And 40k is there to feed our imaginations so...


Hellebore

sydbridges
01-08-2008, 04:45
Neither can I, but no one should hold their breat as of yet. I won't be starting any time soon. Hell, I don't even have the 5th ed. rulebook yet.

The sum total of my knowledge of orks in gaming is as follows:

They like to move towards my necrons. If they get to my necrons, bad things happen to them. They eat through scarabs pretty quickly.

So, I don't know how much I could add, other than that my friend uses a lot of trukks to get his boyz from point A (his starting zone) to point B (the faces of my warriors).

HK-47
01-08-2008, 05:11
@HK-47
Is you avatar from here? http://www.cthulhu-themovie.com/

Yeah, it's Cthulhu, but I can't remember exactly where I found the picture. It's kind of funny how someone who is such a big Lovecraft fan can find a story about a giant alien creature eating space ships so interesting :).

Logarithm Udgaur
01-08-2008, 07:11
Just had a right good idea for trucks in an Orkhab army. Model them as whaling skiffs, they can float in any substance because the Orks rowing them think they can.

Tonberry
01-08-2008, 07:27
Just had a right good idea for trucks in an Orkhab army. Model them as whaling skiffs, they can float in any substance because the Orks rowing them think they can.

This reminded me of that film, The Sphere. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphere_(film))

Perhaps the Void Whale could be something like that. I.E Orks feel uneasy in space, ''dere cud be stuff out dere boss, big stuff, with sharp bits'', and thus something killy manifests (a 'Void Whale') as part of the Orky collected subconsciousness psychicness thingy.

Logarithm Udgaur
01-08-2008, 07:52
That is a very interesting take on the creature. I do not know that it would hold water though as Orks ain't 'fraid 'O 'nuffin!

ADF
01-08-2008, 08:43
That one's easy, the whale does not manifest because they fear him, the warboss (Captain of ye old Naogeddon Whalers) promises them a giant whale fer crumpin', so their imagination runs wild and creates a creature that is such a good sport at bashing heads that it actually devours the orcs.

Both funny and in line with generel orky whackyness; they tried to chew of more than they could swallow, so in the end, they get swallowed.

MrBigMr
01-08-2008, 14:37
The trukks are going to be WW2 style landing crafts made from Chimeras. Turn the tank around, put the driver and gunner at the back, put the open passanger space at the front and put a ramp that'll drop once they hit the enemy lines. Got the idea from the fact that the Chimera is an amphibious tank.

And I was thinking of getting one of those metal Cthulhu shark thingies and make it into a Void Whale Ork hulk for BFG. I've always wanted to make an Ork fleet. Just slap the VW with plenty of construction on its body, like some massive space Squiggoth or something. Maybe get smaller shark models as Ork rocks.

Logarithm Udgaur
04-08-2008, 03:24
Finished the pencils for the "Save the Void Whales" bumper sticker. The art has been upped in contrast in order to be clearer.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q212/mr_gask/VoidWhale.jpg
Still looking for a place to get some stickers made.

HK-47
04-08-2008, 03:43
That Logarithm Udgaur is just full of win, and MrBigMr a void whale space hulk is so cool that I'm render speechless. Do you have of concept yet or are you still fleshing out the idea?

Koryphaus
04-08-2008, 04:34
WHAT DEEP SPACE DISTANCE? Tyranids travel through the warp like you and me, in which time is not a factor, for all we know they could expend no energy travelling through the warp, and when they finally exit it, they are within close distance to a star again. Think about this too, if the Tyranids needed to consume stuff to sustain themselves, and we're being all "scientific," how could they POSSIBLY devour ENOUGH to travel from one system to another and still have enough energy fight back against the defenders AND still be able to produce MORE bio-organisms?

:wtf: What? Where did you here that they travel through the warp? :confused: For as long as I can remember, they have traveled "through the void" between systems and galaxies. They don't travel through the warp.


Erm... this is going to reveal me as the geek I am... wait, I am posting on a 40k forum, so thats a given... but a Star Trek geek. The only place I have ever seen that story before was on Star Trek Voyager... is that where you got it from (I presume they took an actual fable/whatever it is when they used it in the script, so I am guessing possibly not)?

Don't forget that episode where Voyager found those space creatures that lived in.. You'll never guess! Space! And one of them tried to fight Voyager because it thought she was a rival.

Hellebore
04-08-2008, 04:37
Nope, the tyranids definitely enter and exit the warp.

Hellebore

Koryphaus
04-08-2008, 04:57
Nope, the tyranids definitely enter and exit the warp.

Hellebore

Really? Ok, must have got mixed up then.. I thought that they travelled in real space.. Oh well, you learn something new everyday, sorry Chaos..:)

Logarithm Udgaur
04-08-2008, 05:14
I think the misconception about the Nids and Warp travel comes from early Imperial encounters being with solitary drifting ships which seemed to be floating out of the void. I would assume such encounters were ships that were pulled of course by the ebb and flow of the Warp, resulting in misplacement in real space.

Thanks for the props HK-47.

olmsted
04-08-2008, 06:14
well im sure they would come out and look around. even the hive mind might have trouble when khorne is extremely pissed

Iracundus
04-08-2008, 08:00
I think the misconception about the Nids and Warp travel comes from early Imperial encounters being with solitary drifting ships which seemed to be floating out of the void. I would assume such encounters were ships that were pulled of course by the ebb and flow of the Warp, resulting in misplacement in real space.

Thanks for the props HK-47.

The misconception is not from that. The 3rd ed. Tyranid Codex explicitly states that Tyranid ships exit the warp, just further out from the system's star than comparable Imperial ships. They then drift further in system.

oCoYoRoAoKo
04-08-2008, 08:34
Iracundus is correct. Tyranids exit the warp from far out of the system and then drift inwards. I presume the disruption caused by the hive mind protects them from the attacks of daemons whilst in the warp itself.

Cy.

destroyerlord
04-08-2008, 10:17
Wow. I just read through the first 4 pages of this topic and I really do think it should be stickied. Just because this thread is made of win. It is awesome incarnate. Seriously.
I read the quote in the OP and the first thing that came to my mind was the offhand way in which it is presented: 'Oh, yeah, that ork fleet just got eaten by a giant tentacled space whale. What was a space whale doing there anyway?'
Its just fantastic that the whale is described as 'errant.' Its as though someone was offended by it being there, in space...in the way of an ork warrgh.
And yes, I do tend to write in short, underdeveloped sentences and loose my point when I get excited.

Messiah
04-08-2008, 13:00
Having read only a few pages (1-4 and 10-11), I dont know if this has been brought up, but i just wanted to make a note regarding oxygen etc.

If the creature is big enough, it could very well have a gravitational pull large enough to support its own atmosphere, couple that with mass enough to support a proper biosphere of its own (a parasitic biosphere, how cool is that? ;)), it would be pretty much self sustaining (perhaps the creature sweats sulphate through pores in its skin, which is then used by parasitic entities that in turn produce carbon dioxide, which plants that grow on its back use and in turn produce oxygen etc. It then digests entire moons and whatever comes in its path to get at the carbon and other related goodies it needs to live. Coupled with an extremely slow digestion process and low metabolism (akin to crocodiles, who can be quick when needed) it can survive interstellar travels in a sort of suspended life.
Travel could very well be handled by "blowholes" (yes, farting). The letting out of gas in one direction would stimulate travel in the other.

So, void = space or not, speculating about it is fun.

IMO though, void does mean empty, and the warp is far less empty than deep space, the possibility of large creatures in the warp might be higher, but consider the tyranid biovessels..

To conclude: Fun.

MrBigMr
04-08-2008, 15:23
Finished the pencils for the "Save the Void Whales" bumper sticker. The art has been upped in contrast in order to be clearer.
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q212/mr_gask/VoidWhale.jpg
Still looking for a place to get some stickers made.
Can you make a low detail version of it? I could print them out as transfers and stick on my Trukks.


That Logarithm Udgaur is just full of win, and MrBigMr a void whale space hulk is so cool that I'm render speechless. Do you have of concept yet or are you still fleshing out the idea?
I'm getting that Reaper Chtulhu shark thingy. I'll slap on its back some left over cruiser bits and plasticard armour plating. Imagine one of those war elephants with the basket on its back. Just replace the basket with a command tower and more guns than in the entire Imperial Navy. I'll have to buy some Imperial cruisers and turn them into kroosers.


If the creature is big enough, it could very well have a gravitational pull large enough to support its own atmosphere, couple that with mass enough to support a proper biosphere of its own (a parasitic biosphere, how cool is that?
I had such a theory. That's why I'm making one into an Ork Hulk since it has its own gravity well (things can orbit it).

HK-47
04-08-2008, 18:13
Very cool, MrBigMr I can already see the shock face of the poor humie git that has to bring his fleet against that thing :evilgrin:.

On the Tyranid subject, as others have said they use the warp to travel from system to system, but like to exit the warp on the outer edges of the system and drift towards the inner worlds of said system. I always thought they did this as a good offensive tactic; as if they come out of the warp in the middle of the system they run the risk of being surround by the enemy's main defenses and get torn apart before they can get one gaunt on the ground. If they come from the outer edges however, they can then take out the enemy's space defenses piece by piece and draw out the enemy's force in a attempt to stop the nids multiple prong defense, allowing the bungs superior number to wear down an over stretch and over tax enemy.

Also Messiah, your right a creature the size of a dwarf planet would have a pretty substantial gravity field that could lead to a formation of an atmosphere. The main question would then be if it has the proper ecosystem living within or on it to create the necessary organic and inorganic compounds that modern science deems necessary for life. Though it actually doesn't need highly complex life living on it as creatures as simple as cyanobacteria to create something similar to early earth at least atmosphere wise.

chaos0xomega
04-08-2008, 18:52
That Logarithm Udgaur is just full of win, and MrBigMr a void whale space hulk is so cool that I'm render speechless. Do you have of concept yet or are you still fleshing out the idea?

Logarithm Udgaur, that looks ace, can't wait til it's done!!

The only issue I see with it, is that the tentacles don't look quite right, particularly where it meets the lower lip, but then again, neither does the official GW drawing...

MrBigMr - just as a point of interest, the Goroloth mini from Reaper (I.E. the "Cthulhu shark" as you phrased it), the underside of the mini is hollowed out. I.E. there is nothing there, so you may want to either sculpt some detail in there, or perhaps add more gubbinz to it. Also, if you want to put a command bridge on the dorasal surface, youre either going to have to forego the dorsal fin, or you're going to have to saw off the excess. It isn't particularly hard to do that, but you can't do it with an exacto knife, as the pewter is decently thick there.

Also, great idea for a mini-bumper sticker! That'll look great right next to the "Shrub - Chainy 004.M41" bumper sticker on "Da G.R.A.F. Zeplin'"

Orca
04-08-2008, 20:15
MrBigMr, I think the novel would have to start:

"Quiet youze grots, Iz Izarmor. Back when youze was squigs, not that youze much better 'an squigs now, ere was no fightin' by me, and Iz was BORED! Soz I went to find me a WAAAAGH!"

Triggerdog
04-08-2008, 20:20
MrBigMr, I think the novel would have to start:

"Quiet youze grots, Iz Izarmor. Back when youze was squigs, not that youze much better 'an squigs now, ere was no fightin' by me, and Iz was BORED! Soz I went to find me a WAAAAGH!"

Do you realize that your SN is Orca and you posted in a thread about Void Whales? I lol'd hard.

I'll go back to my lair now.

MrBigMr
04-08-2008, 20:35
I'll just have to GS the shark's belly shut then. No biggy. I can always place the command tower in front of the dorsal fin if nothing else.

Funny, it seems that someone up there is thinking this is a good idea. A local hobby store chain has old Ork stuff on sale. Battleforce for 40€, Boyz for 17€, Stormboyz for 10€. Hope there's still stuff left once I get there tomorrow.

Logarithm Udgaur
04-08-2008, 22:47
Can you make a low detail version of it? I could print them out as transfers and stick on my Trukks.

I will see what I can do. I just started a new job this week so it will have to wait till the weekend. How large are you planning on having the sticker (couple of cm would be easier for me)?

MrBigMr
04-08-2008, 23:19
How big does it have to be to fit on the back (or the front, actually, as I'm turning the tank around) of a Chimera? I might manage to do it myself as well once we get to see the full version.

Lord Inquisitor
05-08-2008, 19:54
Okay... I've just waded through all 12 pages of this...

I reckon the best hypothesis is a Warp creature that can "surface" into the materal realm. Just because it has a tail and fins!

Assuming it really exists, of course.


Also, Void shield is an appropriate term, since IIRC, they were first developed for use on Imperial Navy spacecraft.
Void is also a verb. The shields "void" the incoming attacks.


To me this suggests that it uses lures to attract intelligent life to a "planet" which it then swallows and digests, and one thats done, sticks it out there again to go fishing.
Yes! That was my first impression when looking at the image. Awesome.


The fluff I have read always said that Ork vessels were not warp capable, and that the 'ere we go chant was used to teleport them (although IIRC they were teleported through the warp, as in a warp portal opened at the point of departure and destination simultaneously, the orks entered the portal, and came out right away. Not exactly "warp travel" so much as it's using the warp to bend reality).
As I recall they use Space Hulks and other warp-capable craft (that the "'ere we go" chant has any effect is unlikely!)



I think its some ork survivors of a space battle comming up with an exuse why they returned by themselves without the rest of the Wwwaaaggghhhh.

Boss Ork: Why you boyz back wid no other boyz

Surviving ork boy: Well dis errr... Big... Void Whale dunnit and we escaped 'cause we'z quick finkin

Boss Ork: Errr.. dis Whale fingy big enuff to eat da rest of da boyz except you

Surviving ork boy:....Yer we knock it around a bit and filled it full of Dakka so we'z survive?

Boss Ork:You'z got a thick hide... alright carry on.

And so on... as i said before.... an exuse for why they return alone without the other boyz (they lost the space battle).
Cheers, :skull:

That sounds plausible to me! :D


It official the Void Whale has become the most awesome little fluff tidbit ever. As for the breathing in space comment, it was a bad joke, I actually been thinking about bioships operating in open space. I've come to the conclusion that they take whatever air combination they breath with them in massive balladeers that are part lungs part storage. It would use a mixture of our active respiratory system, photosynthesis, and maybe a little chemosynthesis as well in order to generate what it needed. Its body would also probable have airlocks similar to the values in or circulatory system to keep air in and expel waste. Void whales probably don't eat ships, they likely eat smaller void creatures or filter out raw materials from the area around them, like stars (not like c'tan, but plant and bacteria), gas clouds, and something I call atmosphere skimming (where they stick parts of their bodies and "borrow" some elements from a planets atmosphere.)
Who says it has to breathe? A large photosynthetic organism could have a fully internalised cyclic system. Besides, you're assuming similar metabolic processes to our own. Oxygen is needed for the electron transport chain causing an ionic gradient across the mitochondrial inner membrane providing energy for adenosine triphosphate synthase. There's no reason an extraterrestial organism would have mitochondria or an ETC at all. Not all organisms on Earth do. While we're at it, there's no reason it should need to breathe.

At this point it might bear reminding that we are talking about a giant, possibly imaginary space whale with giant, possibly imaginary space flippers. :D


I can say photosynthesis is not enough because the intensity of radiated from a stellar object decreases in a non-linear fashion with respect to the distance from the emitter. It decreases in proportion to the distance squared. At the deep space distances the Tyranids operate at, the intensity is miniscule, even if one accounts for some higher efficiency photosynthesis reactions. That is why photosynthesis alone is not enough to account for the Tyranid ships' metabolisms and behavior at such distances.
The major flaw in your thinking is that you are assuming that the Tyranids are not expending more energy than they are gaining. Which is fair enough in general, but I think it's fair to say that the Tyranids approach star systems and gorge themselves, and fast while they're in deep space. Like plants at night, they're just not photosynthesising in deep space and have to rely on energy reserves.


In no way does it throw thermodynamics out the window. If the sum total of the universe's energy includes realspace and the warp, then no energy or matter is being created.
Whoa, big assumption there. Who said that the sum total of warp+realspace energy is constant?


There is still the slight problem that it ISN'T A MAP. It's a pictographic history, told from the perspective of an OMNIESCIENT NARRATOR. Rumors and stories don't apply, since it's ALL FACT.
How do you know that? I don't see anything that says it is anything but a star map depicting the progress of Waaagh! Gragnatz...

Messiah
05-08-2008, 20:07
To me this suggests that it uses lures to attract intelligent life to a "planet" which it then swallows and digests, and one thats done, sticks it out there again to go fishing. The question is, how would an intelligent species NOT notice the void whale behind the planet and the long fleshy bit that is attached to it? Either the connecting flesh (and probably the void whale) is several lightyears in size (which it could be considering the scale of an entire fleet/warband and a planet), but in that case it's direction dependent, if you come in at the wrong angle, you're going to notice something is up, or somehow the void whale can make itself invisible, or perhaps "blend in" to space itself to hide itself.

Interesting. This sounds like a fun theory, however that would be more logical if the creature was actually hidden in the warp and stuck its bait out in realspace. Think about it, everything that would be visible would be a "moon" with a warp anomaly close by. :D

Orca
05-08-2008, 20:45
Do you realize that your SN is Orca and you posted in a thread about Void Whales? I lol'd hard.

I'll go back to my lair now.

And your lair is jumping the shark. I'm at work so I can only lol a little. It's worked out to be quite apt, and not just because I have to carry around a bunch of Tau. I wonder if we can get a Void Whale to join the Greater Good. :angel:

ADF
06-08-2008, 08:24
Whoa, big assumption there. Who said that the sum total of warp+realspace energy is constant?




To mess the siutation up further, you must also take in account that there are at least two other dimension that are constantly exchanging matter with reality and the warp: The webway and the Necron Matrix (assuming that it's just one dimension, and not several).

Slaaneshi Slave
06-08-2008, 10:10
The Webway is within the Warp.

ADF
06-08-2008, 10:57
But seperated from it, as daemons and other gribblies can't generally enter, unless the tunnels are broken; it is perhaps flawed to call it a dimension on its own, but it is a place where matter and enrgy can be stored and preserved; the necrons with their "create-own-dimensions-at-a-whim" shenanigans are far more concerning in this prospect.

TheOverlord
06-08-2008, 11:03
Wonder if those orks could make that Void Whale looted...

cpl_hicks
06-08-2008, 22:00
Battle for the Abyss spoilers

<spoiler>In the Battle for the Abyss , there is a section where they are travelling through the warp and the space marines ship is attacked by creatures that live in the void, these are obviously demons. At one point these 'sharks of the warp' which are said to feed off emotion that leaks into the warp, see that this ship has a life time of experience and that consuming it would see them 'bloated like a whale'
So to my eye it seems that a Void Whale is possibly a form of daemon that has fed on emotion to become massive</spoiler>

HK-47
06-08-2008, 23:11
That's and interesting spoiler, I have not read the new Hours Hersey book yet does any one know if they mention over things like this in the book; or is that the only instants of such an attack in the book.


To mess the siutation up further, you must also take in account that there are at least two other dimension that are constantly exchanging matter with reality and the warp: The webway and the Necron Matrix (assuming that it's just one dimension, and not several).


the necrons with their "create-own-dimensions-at-a-whim" shenanigans are far more concerning in this prospect.

I wonder as any one heard about string theory, there are mathematical equations carried out in string theory that make a multiverse theoretical possible, maybe the necrons are using these other dimensions the same way we use the warp (of course I'm totally blowing that out of my a** so who knows, it's an interesting thought though).

chaos0xomega
06-08-2008, 23:58
Battle for the Abyss spoilers

<spoiler>In the Battle for the Abyss , there is a section where they are travelling through the warp and the space marines ship is attacked by creatures that live in the void, these are obviously demons. At one point these 'sharks of the warp' which are said to feed off emotion that leaks into the warp, see that this ship has a life time of experience and that consuming it would see them 'bloated like a whale'
So to my eye it seems that a Void Whale is possibly a form of daemon that has fed on emotion to become massive</spoiler>

You mean creatures that live in the warp, right?

Anyway, what you are talking about here are, in fact, Screamers of Tzeentch. Something quite different from Void Whales.

Logarithm Udgaur
08-08-2008, 06:44
Got this knocked out the other day.

It loses pretty much all the detail at a small size, but may be better once I get it colored. If not I will get a lower detail one out to you sometime in the quasi-near future MrBigMr.

Lothlanathorian
08-08-2008, 08:12
Totally saved that

de Selby
08-08-2008, 13:23
Fixed that for you Udgaur. :D

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y89/deSelby/Void20Sticker.gif

Based on rule of cool, I proclaim the idea of a whale that uses a faux planetoid on the end of its tongue as a lure and then surfaces from the warp to gobble up invaders to be correct, because it is the coolest idea ever.

chaos0xomega
08-08-2008, 18:52
Logarithim/de Selby, is it me, or has the Void Whale been stretched/compressed? It looks kind of different from what it should be (but otherwise it looks ace).

Logarithm Udgaur
08-08-2008, 19:44
You are correct, it has been mangled to fit the bumper sticker size.

Also, I like your addition de Selby. I will most likely keep it for the final version.

Slaaneshi Slave
08-08-2008, 19:45
I think the "us from" should be in hand writing.

chaos0xomega
08-08-2008, 20:09
Yeah, in orkoid handwriting...

Lothlanathorian
08-08-2008, 20:10
I was about to say exactly that lol.

Epic thread is epic.

MrBigMr
08-08-2008, 20:14
This is a terrible, bastard googling translation, but imagine it on an old parchment, written in blood:
"Liberate Vos... Ex Vocitus Balaena."

Found in a half digested ship, floating in a cloud of fecal matter, next to a corpse with no eyes, for he has seen what cannot be unseen.

Slaaneshi Slave
08-08-2008, 20:20
You've been watching too much Event Horizon... :D

MrBigMr
08-08-2008, 20:39
Too much... Or not enough?

Slaaneshi Slave
08-08-2008, 20:41
A little from the left hand, a little from the right... :p

I've not watched that movie for years. I think I will pick it up on DVD!

de Selby
10-08-2008, 18:04
Your wish is my command...

Burning Star IV
10-08-2008, 19:43
The void whale is now officially my favorite thing ever in 40k. well, assuming it isn't warp-spawned or tyranid, and I don't think it is.

My space marine chapter is getting a name change: Void Whales

Lothlanathorian
10-08-2008, 21:14
I wonder if any void whales have ever died, fallen into a planets gravity well and, well....you know what happens next. Hillarity ensues.