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View Full Version : What happened to Emperor after the fight w/ Horus



slaanghoul
25-07-2008, 06:45
I have a big question about the Emperor. What happen and why did they put him in the Golden Throne after the fight with Horus.

First, let me see if I have this correct. So I can understand a little better of the current history of the "mummy" Emperor. In order to understand the current history, we have to look at the past.

Pre Horus heresy
Emperor have the Golden Throne built as part of his Webway on Terra. I'll call it Golden Throne Silver. GTS is not a life support, but a "control" of the webway and a "light house" in the warp for his allies. When he built this, his intent was not to sit on it forever because he doesn't have too. He had wards to protect it. Correct so far?

Horus Heresy
The Wards that protecting the GTS were destroyed by Magus. Demons were coming in the Palace, Emperor became the gate keeper 24/7 on GTS. Emperor left GTS to fight Horus and let somebody take over GTS. Nobody can sit on GTS as well as the Emperor, the man that did die almost right away and didn't really do a good job. Emperor return to GTS half dead from Horus fight. Emperor command his subject to plug him to Golden Throne w/ added life support system. This has become the current Golden Throne and the current history as a mummy Emperor after 10,000 years.

What were the Emperor's intent and purpose to this idea? I know the intend and purpose of the GT, but I mean his final goal and let me explain.
At the time after his injury, did he want to be in the GT forever or was it a quick fix and he thought that he can rebuild his body or (oh god not another debate) be transfer to a Dreadnought later? Why can't the rebuild the Wards that Magus destroyed? The emperor has become a gate keeper of a damn that can't be fixed? Why not just shut the GT down and seal it so Demons can't get threw and use the old way of travel.

Another question is how did the Emperor and his subject travel before and during the Crusade before the GTS or GT? I'm asking this because why can't they just go back to the same traveling system and just shut the GT idea all together and heal the Emperor or put him in a Dreadnought and let him continue to lead the Imperial. This is right after Heresy BTW, not now.

I know Warp travel is dangerous. Lets put a scale 1 nothing and 10 very very high on the danger level. If warp travel is a 9 with out the GT. With the GT it is down to like a 5 or something? And during the Crusade, did they travel the Warp at 9 level? Is that the reason why the Imperial rather have a mummy Emperor so they can travel the warp at Warp danger 5 than have him return as a heal Emperor or a Dreadnought Emperor and travel at Warp danger 9? Again, this is right after or during Heresy, not 10,000 years later.

So back to the main thread question. After you have read my statement above, can you respond to why the Emperor is in current status as a mummy Emperor?

I guess the key link subjects:
1. GT gate keeper and light house vs. shut it down and use old way of travel
2. Fix the Wards or why can't they fix it.
3. What did the Emperor have in my in his vision of the GT as a quick fix, but got stuck in it forever.

Lord Damocles
25-07-2008, 11:15
What were the Emperor's intent and purpose to this idea? I know the intend and purpose of the GT, but I mean his final goal and let me explain.
At the time after his injury, did he want to be in the GT forever or was it a quick fix and he thought that he can rebuild his body or (oh god not another debate) be transfer to a Dreadnought later?
As far as I can recall, we've never been given the definitive reason why the Emperor wanted to be intered in the Golden Throne.

My thinking would be that he wanted to make sure that he didn't die immediately after his wounding by Horus. He could then have held the webway portal closed, boosted the signal of the Astronomoican, given help and encouragement where needed etc. I wouldn't have thought that he'd intended to be trapped in the throne for ten millenia though - since the throne is essentially stopping him from ascending (assuming that you still believe the Star Child theory). More likely he expected the affairs of humanity to be put in order, and then the throne to fail so that he could die properly (and then be reborn, become a warp entity / Old One, etc etc...) sadly the peoples of the Imperium are reluctant to let their god die, and so continue to maintain the throne.

Putting him into a Dreadnought seems dodgy to me - he'd have to be unplugged from the throne first which would in all likelyhood kill him, thus defeating the point...


The emperor has become a gate keeper of a damn that can't be fixed? Why not just shut the GT down and seal it so Demons can't get threw and use the old way of travel.
You'd think that the webway gate would have been sealed long ago. I mean, you've got the headquaters of the Inquisition on Terra, and the fortress monastary of the Grey Knights on Titan within the Sol System - sealing a huge warp portal in the very cradel of humanity would be fairly high on their to-do list.


Another question is how did the Emperor and his subject travel before and during the Crusade before the GTS or GT? I'm asking this because why can't they just go back to the same traveling system and just shut the GT idea all together and heal the Emperor or put him in a Dreadnought and let him continue to lead the Imperial. This is right after Heresy BTW, not now..
Travel during the Great Crusade was basicly the same method as post-Heresy. They still used warp travel, but due to the lack of the the Astronomican, it was just slower due to having to make lots of shorter warp jumps as opposed to a single massive jump. The Emperor basicly boosts the signal of the Astronomican from the Golden Throne. If he was to die or otherwise leave the throne, warp travel would still be possible - it would just be a lot slower.


So back to the main thread question. After you have read my statement above, can you respond to why the Emperor is in current status as a mummy Emperor?
Just checking my 'Horus Heresy: Collected Visions', the Emperor actually says that he'll be bound to the Throne for all of time... so perhaps he did intend for the current stste of affairs, even if that does seem a little odd...

pookie
25-07-2008, 11:19
when the fight was over and Dorn discovered the Emperor, still Alive, he took him to terra, and whilst still able to talk he (the Emp) instructed Dorn in how to change the GT into a Life Support System, shortly before this was completed he lost the power of speach and thats the end of that.

[QUOTE=Lord Damocles;2809147]Travel during the Great Crusade was basicly the same method as post-Heresy. They still used warp travel, but due to the lack of the the Astronomican, it was just slower due to having to make lots of shorter warp jumps as opposed to a single massive jump. The Emperor basicly boosts the signal of the Astronomican from the Golden Throne. If he was to die or otherwise leave the throne, warp travel would still be possible - it would just be a lot slower./QUOTE]


Dont forget travel would be a lot more dangerous and unpredictable, the Beacon, gives a fixed point for the Navigators to use as a way point if you like, without this, although travel would be possible, it would be a lot more random, but also a LOT more dangerous.

oh and OP didnt we put to rest that he wasnt put in a Draed for a reason? stop going on about that please, just makes you seem like you want to cause conflict.

clanfield
25-07-2008, 16:22
there is a referance to the emporer disconecting himself from the astronomican as a signal that the final fight had begun before he teleported aboard horus ship(lost and the damed old but not changed yet )

The Anarchist
25-07-2008, 23:49
the Golden Toilet sits on top of either remenants of eldar webway, or the Emporer actualy began building his own webway to help mantain his Imperium with much safer methods of traval than warp jumping. however thw webway wasn't secure, and Magnus broke all the wards set up by the emporer in hsi haste to contact and warn his father. this meant the webway was unprotected, in effect creating a large wearp rift to let deamons through. so the emporer had to sit on the GT and using his psychic might single handedly hold off the deamons with soem help by his custodes as they dealt with the physical manifestations of the Deamons.

when the final battle with Horus arrived, Malcador the Stigalite (the most powerfull human psycher in existance after the Emperor) sat on the GT and held back the warp tide and died from the effort of doing this for a mere few hours.

it took the emperor years from what we can gather, to set up the basic webway he had, so its not really got much of a quick fix, and maybe for all their knowledge the inquisition just is not capable replicating the emperors wards. also the emperor is the only being capable (even with thousands of souls being sacraficed to help him) holding this small warp rift formed from his webway forming into a full grown warp portal. and to the question as to why dosn't someone close the warp rift.....well could counter with why dosnt someone jsut go close the eye of Terror. maybe that was bit too sarastic but a warp gate on terra is probably something the chaos gods put a regular level of effort into keeping open, i mean it would be a serious victory for the chaos gods if they could get a large warp rift on terra itself in the emporers own throne room in nottingham lol.

slaanghoul
26-07-2008, 10:20
So the Imperial with all the resource can't fix the Ward that Magus destroyed? To me one would think that fixing the ward will solved almost all the current problem with the Imperial. Fixed Ward, Emperor can move on to do other things such as return to his body and heal or and lead the Empire again. Or if he can't heal his body, at least he can come back to the material plane and lead the Imperial as a mummy.

Can't the Emperor give advise on how to fix the Ward?

As someone mentioned earlier that the =][= , Adaptus Machanicus, or the top brain of the Imperial can't fix the Ward in 10,000 years?


Also as I point it out about the danger of warp (in scale) travel, if the Imperial did it during the Great Crusade why not do it now? The "light house" is nice and all, but by all means it wouldn't be the end of Imperial. If I remember correctly, the Great Crusade was some of the most successful time the Imperial has ever done and it was a success with out the "light house".

Did GW just never mention anything about fixing the Ward or sealing GT shut for good and just go back to making small jump like in the good old day of the Great Crusade? Did I miss something here?

slaanghoul
26-07-2008, 10:28
the Golden Toilet sits on top of either remenants of eldar webway, or the Emporer actualy began building his own webway to help mantain his Imperium with much safer methods of traval than warp jumping. however thw webway wasn't secure, and Magnus broke all the wards set up by the emporer in hsi haste to contact and warn his father. this meant the webway was unprotected, in effect creating a large wearp rift to let deamons through. so the emporer had to sit on the GT and using his psychic might single handedly hold off the deamons with soem help by his custodes as they dealt with the physical manifestations of the Deamons.

when the final battle with Horus arrived, Malcador the Stigalite (the most powerfull human psycher in existance after the Emperor) sat on the GT and held back the warp tide and died from the effort of doing this for a mere few hours.

it took the emperor years from what we can gather, to set up the basic webway he had, so its not really got much of a quick fix, and maybe for all their knowledge the inquisition just is not capable replicating the emperors wards. also the emperor is the only being capable (even with thousands of souls being sacraficed to help him) holding this small warp rift formed from his webway forming into a full grown warp portal. and to the question as to why dosn't someone close the warp rift.....well could counter with why dosnt someone jsut go close the eye of Terror. maybe that was bit too sarastic but a warp gate on terra is probably something the chaos gods put a regular level of effort into keeping open, i mean it would be a serious victory for the chaos gods if they could get a large warp rift on terra itself in the emporers own throne room in nottingham lol.

I agree, you just almost rewrite what I've stated, but in full details. Yeah Chaos key easy victory is to open the gate, but Imperial key victory is also shutting it or put the Wards back on it. So is the gate not possible to be shut by the people on the outside? I mean Emperor and his subject built it, can't they just destroyed it? I know about the "light house" but lets say if Imperial and the Emperor decided that the cost of shutting it down out weight the risk of Chaos storming into Terra, can it be done? Again, back to my Warp travel risk scale. . . it was done with great success during the Crusade .. . it can be done now I would think.

slaanghoul
26-07-2008, 10:34
when the fight was over and Dorn discovered the Emperor, still Alive, he took him to terra, and whilst still able to talk he (the Emp) instructed Dorn in how to change the GT into a Life Support System, shortly before this was completed he lost the power of speach and thats the end of that.

[QUOTE=Lord Damocles;2809147]Travel during the Great Crusade was basicly the same method as post-Heresy. They still used warp travel, but due to the lack of the the Astronomican, it was just slower due to having to make lots of shorter warp jumps as opposed to a single massive jump. The Emperor basicly boosts the signal of the Astronomican from the Golden Throne. If he was to die or otherwise leave the throne, warp travel would still be possible - it would just be a lot slower./QUOTE]


Dont forget travel would be a lot more dangerous and unpredictable, the Beacon, gives a fixed point for the Navigators to use as a way point if you like, without this, although travel would be possible, it would be a lot more random, but also a LOT more dangerous.

oh and OP didnt we put to rest that he wasnt put in a Draed for a reason? stop going on about that please, just makes you seem like you want to cause conflict.


I agree about the warp travel with out Beacon, but it was done in the past so why not just go back to the old style and take a risk. To me it just seems like returning the Emperor as a ruler worth more than having him acting as a light house. Oh and before returning him back, the gate would have been shut too.

The dread thing was there just incase if when he return after the GT is shutdown for good and he can't heal his body enough to be a "man" again, he can at least be in a dread .. .. since he no longer needed to be on the GT.

slaanghoul
26-07-2008, 10:41
As far as I can recall, we've never been given the definitive reason why the Emperor wanted to be intered in the Golden Throne.

My thinking would be that he wanted to make sure that he didn't die immediately after his wounding by Horus. He could then have held the webway portal closed, boosted the signal of the Astronomoican, given help and encouragement where needed etc. I wouldn't have thought that he'd intended to be trapped in the throne for ten millenia though - since the throne is essentially stopping him from ascending (assuming that you still believe the Star Child theory). More likely he expected the affairs of humanity to be put in order, and then the throne to fail so that he could die properly (and then be reborn, become a warp entity / Old One, etc etc...) sadly the peoples of the Imperium are reluctant to let their god die, and so continue to maintain the throne.

Putting him into a Dreadnought seems dodgy to me - he'd have to be unplugged from the throne first which would in all likelyhood kill him, thus defeating the point...


You'd think that the webway gate would have been sealed long ago. I mean, you've got the headquaters of the Inquisition on Terra, and the fortress monastary of the Grey Knights on Titan within the Sol System - sealing a huge warp portal in the very cradel of humanity would be fairly high on their to-do list.


Travel during the Great Crusade was basicly the same method as post-Heresy. They still used warp travel, but due to the lack of the the Astronomican, it was just slower due to having to make lots of shorter warp jumps as opposed to a single massive jump. The Emperor basicly boosts the signal of the Astronomican from the Golden Throne. If he was to die or otherwise leave the throne, warp travel would still be possible - it would just be a lot slower.


Just checking my 'Horus Heresy: Collected Visions', the Emperor actually says that he'll be bound to the Throne for all of time... so perhaps he did intend for the current stste of affairs, even if that does seem a little odd...

Interesting, I guess he wants to be on the GT forever if what you said is true. It does seems strange, but he can see the future, so maybe this is the best option .. . .. for now.

Francis29
26-07-2008, 10:47
in reference to why they can't close the rift, the Ad Mech never do any research, all they do is repair things and look for STCs. they never try to innovate in other words.

Promethius
26-07-2008, 11:17
What's even more interesting is that there are subsequent references which suggest that the Emperor isn't completely unconscious. The 2nd ed sisters of battle book describes the daughters of the emperor entering the throne room and (iirc) speaking with the emperor. Earlier books (specifically the inquisition trilogy, which started the whole star child thing) suggest that the emperor is alive and semi-conscious but completely mad, having been fighting a non-stop battle against chaos for over ten millenia.

Essentially I think that the reason why the Emperor remained on the throne is a combination of indecision (no-body wanted to be the one that turned it off and ended up killing him) and conspiracy. The primarchs, though mighty leaders of men, were used to a military command structure and always took orders from the big E. Dorn followed his last order to inter the emperor but probably didn't have the gumption to work out what happened next. Don't forget that the primarchs didn't even find out what the emperor had been doing in the dungeons until the heresy, and as his no. 2 in that project (Malcador) died trying to keep the gate sealed, there was no-one to tell them how it worked or what to do. Hence, indecision. The conspiracy angle comes from the Inquisitor roleplaying game, and essentially suggests that factions in the newly-formed inquisition new that if the emperor came off of the throne so soon after his ascension, the populace wouldn't believe it and there would be another civil war. To prevent it, they conspired to keep him on the throne until such a time as he could miraculously emerge. Of course, over time that got forgotten and we end up with mummy-god. Now we're waiting for him to pop his clogs so that he can ascend and fight chaos as a fully-fledged god.

The person who could probably best answer this question is Brusilov, but I haven't seen him on here in ages.

heretics bane
26-07-2008, 12:58
He was so badly injured on a physical scale he had to be interred into the golden throne in order for him to survive and to stop terra becoming a deamon world or turning a good part of the sol system into a new eye of terror because of the massive warp rift that was created when the wards on his webway project blew off.

As for the dreadnought theroy, cant we just agree you cant just shove every main or important character in a dread there dead or injured thats it!

ryng_sting
26-07-2008, 18:58
Assuming the Eldar haven't already sealed off the concerned section, since it was infested with daemons.

The Golden Throne was intended to be the hub of the Webway project - a small, human-built tunnel leading to an abandoned section of the Webway. Magnus's spell, as the Chaos Gods planned, ruined this plan forever and led to a weaker version of the Astronomican.

heretics bane
26-07-2008, 19:34
Maybe there laughying eldar god might have intervened at one stage since it is stated that he knows all the paths and "doors" maybe hes even spoken or interacted with the Emperor...

PondaNagura
26-07-2008, 20:09
i doubt the Emperor could move his fingers let alone fire up enough neurons to hook into the bio-mechanical nervous system of a dreadnought.
as for sealing the the wards, do not assume that because it is Terra that they even have knowledge on how to go about sealing wards. it's more of an ordo malleus thing, and i doubt any of their members would be able to comprehend the complexities of the gate...otherwise we'd see more people in the webway.

as for traveling without the astronomicon, well it would a constant chatter of "are-we-there-yetism", hopping in and out of the warp to cross check star-charts, and realign oneself. or being able to discern whether you've skipped past the edge of the galaxy and re-appear in the void between galaxies. plus all the wonderful perils of the warp up-close and personal.

Brother Siccarius
26-07-2008, 20:37
Personally I doubt they're even aware of it considering the Emperor kept it a secret even through his death, even from his most trusted sons (Which inadvertently caused the Heresy). The Ordo Malleus wasn't even created until some time after the Heresy.


in reference to why they can't close the rift, the Ad Mech never do any research, all they do is repair things and look for STCs. they never try to innovate in other words.
They do research and create things all the time. Power Armor and Terminator armor being prime examples that were first created and perfected from the unification war till after the Heresy. The latest version of Terminator armor being used by the Grey Knights. It's also continually being perfected and personalized. There's certainly no STC for bionics, considering there's no standard design, and it's look and function can change wildly based on who made it and for what.

There's plenty of innovation within the mechanicus itself, it's just that you'd have to pay or threaten a lot to get most of it.

Secondly, you think Dorn picked up a wrench and some sheet metal and started building the Golden Throne himself?


I have to wonder where this:


when the final battle with Horus arrived, Malcador the Stigalite (the most powerfull human psycher in existance after the Emperor) sat on the GT and held back the warp tide and died from the effort of doing this for a mere few hours.
came from though. I was aware of the assumption that he was a psyker because he was put on the Golden Throne, but when did he become "the most powerfull human psycher in existance after the Emperor"?

The Anarchist
26-07-2008, 22:17
I have to wonder where this:

came from though. I was aware of the assumption that he was a psyker because he was put on the Golden Throne, but when did he become "the most powerfull human psycher in existance after the Emperor"?[/QUOTE]

i get this from varrious comments in the art books, and from page 402 of flight of the esenstien; "Malcador, so the stories said, was second only in psychic might to the Emperor" thats the view of a Terran born senior Space Marine.

as for the lighthouse, yes mankind expanded rapidly without the lighthouse but then they jsut ahd to move outwards. maintaining contact with an existing Empire is much harder than just pushing outwards all the time and not worrying about whats behind you. i mean in the crusade it wasn't till almost 100 years into the crusade that serious attmepts at collecting tithes and stuff was being implmented with any real degree.

grissom2006
27-07-2008, 12:30
well i don't know how many of you out there will remember in inquisitor breaking into the palace and conversing with the emperor when the inquisitor wars nearly destroyed them. the emperor could only converse telepathicly and at great effort and with many voices from those who died in helping keep the astronomican burning parts of the emperors mind seemed to be quite insane.

Alessander
27-07-2008, 14:39
Maybe there laughying eldar god might have intervened at one stage since it is stated that he knows all the paths and "doors" maybe hes even spoken or interacted with the Emperor...

haha, i get this image of the laughing god becoming a typical annoying kid ringing the doorbell of the cranky old man's house and running away before he can answer it...