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mick005usa
25-07-2008, 13:33
I was just looking through my copy of the The Horus Heresy: Collected Visions and something caught my eye. Within the 'Blades of the Traitor' picture on pp 262 & 263 there's a gentleman named the 'Red Angel'. There's also a closeup of him on p 267. I've never heard anything of him. Interestingly, he's got what is unmistakably a blood droplet surrounded by two wings on his knee, the symbol of the Blood Angels Legion. The plot thickens! Anyone have any ideas on this guy's story? One would think we'd have heard about the "Blood Angel that got possessed and then hung out with Horus & Co."

pookie
25-07-2008, 14:05
i think its actually Angron, do you have link to the pic?

( although i do believ theres a contrived BL book that claims the BA legion was almost tempted into chaos by one of the marines, or some such nonsence - could relate to this??? )

Im not saying1
25-07-2008, 14:06
Yeh, ive noticed this aswell. I asked this question on Warseer and other forums. This is the only menion of the Red Angel anywhere in 40k background. My guess is the Red Angel is a daemonhost of some sort.


i think its actually Angron, do you have link to the pic?

( although i do believ theres a contrived BL book that claims the BA legion was almost tempted into chaos by one of the marines, or some such nonsence - could relate to this??? )

It definetely is not Angron, the book describes it clearly as a daemon, at the time of the Horus Heresy none of the primarchs ever ascended to daemonhood (or had fire coming out of it's eyes). Furthermore, Angron did not have the symbol of the Blood Angels Legion on his armour.

Askari
25-07-2008, 14:29
Angron was known as the Red Angel however (It's mentioned in at least one of the Horus Heresy novels).

Without seeing the picture, I would assume since it is about Traitors it is Angron, but with a bit of artistic license put into it.
The Horus Heresy artbooks are well-known to not quite be... correct background-wise.

Wraith
25-07-2008, 14:33
The individual in question is clearly not Angron rather a possessed Blood Angel -- it is wearing a standard suit of red power armour with blood angel iconography.

TheBigBadWolf
25-07-2008, 15:02
I always assumed he was a possessed blood angel, if its the same picture that im thinking about, ive just got the 4 individual books not the collected visions, but i think its the same one.

shutupSHUTUP!!!
25-07-2008, 15:24
It doesn't really look like the Blood Angel has been possessed willingly either.

PondaNagura
25-07-2008, 19:04
yeah, there are chains of binding kind of holding his levitating flaming body to the ground.
of course there is the clearly daemonic creature standing not too far from him.
he's probably some poor shlub who got captured and possessed by the word bearers to act as a liaison between the mortals and the entities of the warp...how else might one conduct business and tactics?

Deleted by the Warseer Inquisition.

Aranel
26-07-2008, 02:22
Picture looks like a demonhost of some description. in the Horus Heresy series Angron is referred to the Red Angel in False Gods or Galaxy in Flames I think. The 'Visions' books are sometimes not accurate so the author might just have thought it was a cool name for a captured Blood Angel

PondaNagura
26-07-2008, 02:50
but the artbooks came out way before the novels were even written...so it's more likely they grabbed Red Angel from the artbooks as an unknown character and applied it to Angron, very well known and quite fitting epithet

MadDoc
26-07-2008, 12:25
Except that IIRC Angron is referred to as the Red Angel in at least one of the artbooks and was prior to their publication... :angel:

Wraith
26-07-2008, 16:39
Okay in the back of the collected visions is a picture of all the cards:

The cards are as follows:

[Picture of possessed Blood Angel]
The Red Angel
Voice of Discord

[Picture of Daemonic Angron featuring skull like face etc]
Angron
Prince of Blood

The page sized pencil sketch artwork of Angron as a 'mortal' doesn't mention the title 'Red Angel' either.

This 'the Red Angel' has obviously yet to be featured in a novel and any confusion must be in regards to the title being mis-attributed to Angron rather than the other way around.

dookie
27-07-2008, 19:15
awesome discussion, we can only mew about what we have in front of us. So this 'Red Angel' is blatently a Blood Angel on fire. It cant be a mistake by the artist, cos the brief would have said 'please include Angron in the picture'

The funny side of it all is, why the hell did someone bring him along to the meeting? You can imagine Arihman just about to leave the house to get the meeting, but his possessed wife nagging him about how the red angel needs a walk and he's got to go with him cos she's off to sainsburys where they dont allow deamonhosts. So he turns up and hope horus dosn't notice or he wont live it down. lol

Nazguire
27-07-2008, 19:26
Okay in the back of the collected visions is a picture of all the cards:

The cards are as follows:

[Picture of possessed Blood Angel]
The Red Angel
Voice of Discord

[Picture of Daemonic Angron featuring skull like face etc]
Angron
Prince of Blood

The page sized pencil sketch artwork of Angron as a 'mortal' doesn't mention the title 'Red Angel' either.

This 'the Red Angel' has obviously yet to be featured in a novel and any confusion must be in regards to the title being mis-attributed to Angron rather than the other way around.


Voice of discord sounds like the Red Angel does exactly what he does, sows discord. A loyalist Marine (of possibly one of the most loyal Legions to the Emperor) possessed by a powerful daemon (who has him permanently on fire) spouting anti-Imperial whatevers, would be quite disturbing to the Blood Angels.

ryng_sting
28-07-2008, 21:03
The Red Angel is a BA daemonhost. although 'The Red Angel' was also Angron's nickname among Imperial troops. Partly encouraged by Horus, partly by Angron's temperament, the BA and WE competed with each other to be the Great Crusade's greatest assault force. The HH books, furthermore, suggest that Khorne had a thwarted interest in recruiting Sanguinius.

SonOFSanguinius
02-08-2008, 01:55
Could someone please post a link to this pic

Col. Tartleton
02-08-2008, 02:45
Thus why he sent his best daemons against him, he was trying to bring the blood lust within him out, and by Sanguineous' death he did so for the entire bloodline. And according to the blood angels stories an entire company almost falls to khorne, and I imagine it wasn't the first time.

If they had both fallen it would be cool IMO. Angron the Red Angel, and Sanguinius the Angel of Blood. Alas noble Sanguinius had to die instead of Dorn, only to die later near Cadia...

Nazguire
02-08-2008, 03:46
The Red Angel is a BA daemonhost. although 'The Red Angel' was also Angron's nickname among Imperial troops. Partly encouraged by Horus, partly by Angron's temperament, the BA and WE competed with each other to be the Great Crusade's greatest assault force. The HH books, furthermore, suggest that Khorne had a thwarted interest in recruiting Sanguinius.


Thats what I don't understand. The Blood Angels didn't have their bloodthirsty rage of doom before Signus Prime and then fully at Terra, and weren't led by a berserker like Angron, but someone that was for all intents and purposes, perfect in temperment and mind. (hence why Horus said it should have been Sanguinius that was the Warmaster not him)

Why would they have been a close assault Legion like the World Eaters, Space Wolves or Salamanders, when their army list is nothing like that to begin with (it's essentially codex minus the Death Company and Veteran Assault Troops)

mick005usa
02-08-2008, 08:01
Unfortunately I can't find a link for the piece. Going from left to right, one can see Erebus, the Fabricator General of Mars, Maloghurst with 'Possessed retinue', Abaddon and Chosen Terminators, Horus, the Red Angel, Ahriman and Retinue, Ingethel the Ascended, and Fulgrim and Bodyguard. Ingethel, who i've not heard of before, is apparently a daemon. His appearance, and his placement between Ahriman and Fulgrim would lead me to believe he is of the Slanneshi variety, or perhaps Tzeentchian. His lower 'torso' is legless and snakelike, much like Fulgrim's after his elevation to Daemon Prince.

There location seems to be on a warship. What's more, at the centre of the assembly is a pink orb which looks rather 'warpy'. On this orb, into which the assembled are looking, are three phrases, two of which are difficult to read. As an educated guess, the left and right phrases spell out 'Portis Loomis' and 'Munus Extremis,' while the central, the most leggible, can only be construed as 'Sanctum Imperialis.'

It is this Sanctum Imperialis that leads me to believe that this assembly is in fact the 'pre-mission briefing' for the attack on Terra. Horus is gesticulating towards the orb with his right Talon, while Erebus's hand is raised, palm up, as if making a point about something Horus is saying, as if discussing possible areas of attack or responsibility.

This is certainly all specualtion on my part, however, if it's true, it makes the piece one of the more interesting in the artbook. It is an imposing cast of charecters and, to my knowledge, the only time these men would have assembled after the begining of the Heresy was for the assault on Terra. As I recall, Erebus left the Word Bearers while they attacked Ultramar, sticking with Horus. Naturally, the other Sons of Horus pictured would have remained with their Primarch. It is common knowledge the Emperor's Children and their Primarch were present at the Battle of Terra. Does anyone know if Ahriman would have been present as well? I seem to remeber the Thousand Sons had recieved quite the drubbing from the Space Wolves and therefore did not participate in the battle.

One can only speculate then as to who this 'Red Angel' is. Though it is simply conjecture, I believe that he will be important later on. His presence, that is, the existence of a possessed Blood Angel will be the reason it was Sanguinius that accompanied the Emperor to Horus's Battle Barge. In a larger sense, the possession of the 'Red Angel' was added bait from the Chaos Gods in their attempt to corrupt Sanguinius.

Turned into a bit of a rant didn't it? The detective work continues!

ryng_sting
02-08-2008, 13:29
Thats what I don't understand. The Blood Angels didn't have their bloodthirsty rage of doom before Signus Prime and then fully at Terra, and weren't led by a berserker like Angron, but someone that was for all intents and purposes, perfect in temperment and mind. (hence why Horus said it should have been Sanguinius that was the Warmaster not him)

Why would they have been a close assault Legion like the World Eaters, Space Wolves or Salamanders, when their army list is nothing like that to begin with (it's essentially codex minus the Death Company and Veteran Assault Troops)

The background suggests Sanguinius reached full power when he got angry. While I believe the Signis incident triggered, not caused, something latent within him and his sons, I don't believe it puts them on the same level as the WE. The Flaw is what makes the BA noble: they accept their failings and try to channel them as best they can. This is the difference between even a Death Company trooper and a Berzerker, in that the former still knows why he kills.

Logarithm Udgaur
02-08-2008, 23:21
The funny side of it all is, why the hell did someone bring him along to the meeting? You can imagine Arihman just about to leave the house to get the meeting, but his possessed wife nagging him about how the red angel needs a walk and he's got to go with him cos she's off to sainsburys where they dont allow deamonhosts. So he turns up and hope horus dosn't notice or he wont live it down. lol

Methinks you speak from experience?

Phoenix Blaze
03-08-2008, 16:05
The Thousand Sons were at the Siege of Terra, and I imagine Ahriman would've been there too, as at this point, he would've be equivalent to Abaddon in terms of his standing within the Legion, I'd imagine.

As for the BA being combat monsters? Simply put, they were just really good at it, where the WE went into a blood crazed frenzy, the BA were just exceptionally good in close combat, just as the Iron Warriors and Imperial Fists were great at siege warfare. I think any rage they may have exhibited would just be an Astartes thing. We can see how violent the Luna Wolves are when they're carrying back Horus' body, they're battering in humands left right and centre. I think if you let any Astartes really go at it, it'll be quite a scary thing. Horus Rising makes a good point of showing that when Astartes go to war, it's not a pretty sight and quite likely to skew people's perceptions of the Emperor's Angels.


Obviously the Red Angel is not an example of this, but, the HH artwork books have a number of drawings which are incorrectly labelled, why is annoying for a few pieces of essentially missing artwork.

mick005usa
03-08-2008, 18:26
I just noticed something else. This painting composes the cover! The plot thickens...

Because this painting is fascinating, awesome, super neat-o and FORMS THE COVER, i'm reluctant to simply chalk it's composition and cast of charecters up to being 'incorrectly labeled' or some kind of afterthought on the part of the artist or editors.

I guess what i'm wondering now is, has the meeting pictured been mentioned at all in the fluff? The Collected Visions mentions one meeting where 'Horus Plans the Invasion' (p 332), however, Ahriman is absent.

Did the artist really just say 'hmm, Horus, Erebus, Lorgar, this paintings still missing something...I know, a possessed Blood Angel in CHAINZZZZZ?" I find that hard to believe. Assuming this meeting has not yet been described in fluff or background, I posit that it is therefore a super-secret sneak preview for what will prove to be the best of the Horus Heresy novels...(drum roll)...Sanguinius and the Blood Angels' very own!