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Arkaedin
30-07-2008, 00:34
What sort of weaponry would be common amongst a Blood Angel before the Heresy excluding bolters? I wanted to start work on a Pre-Heresy Blood Angel, but wasn't sure what would be seen whether a flamer, meltagun, or combi weapon?

PondaNagura
30-07-2008, 00:41
well assault cannons weren't very popular, mostly were reliant upon reaper autocannons. probably didn't have sanguinary high-priests, definitely didn't get the black rage/red thirst, so no need for death company.
well they were assault oriented like they are now, though jump pack technology was limited so you'd probably only see them in veteran or fast attack units rather than troops.

ironcurtin117
30-07-2008, 20:48
From what I've read, the Blood Angels were pretty much your generic (if at all possible) Marine Legion. The only differences I have noticed are their preference for (jump-pack) assault squads and the Baal Predator Variant, which would point to an attack-oriented army.

Weapons? Assault Cannons, Heavy bolters, grenades, maybe some flamers

DutchKillsRambo
31-07-2008, 00:44
Assault cannons werent even around yet IIRC. Heavy Bolters, flamers, and meltas, are probably your best bet for shooting, and I would add a lot of Assault squads without jump packs. Just stick them in a Rhino and roll over your enemies! Hope that helps.

pookie
31-07-2008, 10:54
From what I've read, the Blood Angels were pretty much your generic (if at all possible) Marine Legion. The only differences I have noticed are their preference for (jump-pack) assault squads and the Baal Predator Variant, which would point to an attack-oriented army.

Weapons? Assault Cannons, Heavy bolters, grenades, maybe some flamers

Pre HH the BA were a mainly assault Legion, that vied with teh World Eaters as the best Close Combat legion.

They will have still been organised like they are today, but they wouldnt have had: Death Company, Sanguniary Priests at this time will have been normal Apoths, Baal Preds were also a later addition ( post HH ) and also Land Raider Crusaders, you also shouldnt use the Shroud of Sangnius ( if thast ist name, the banner they wraped sanguinius in when they recovered his body from Horus Battle Barge).

so using the current Dex would be more than fine, you could maybe justify the DC as being the Crazy BA that had a tendancy to go 'Bonkers' and throw themselves tha the enemy, this is because the DC points are taken into when choosing your force, but you should leave out anything with a Assault cannon ( so none for termie sqds or Baal Preds or land Raider Crusaders).

Phoenix Blaze
31-07-2008, 11:06
To allow acces to autocannons and such, using the chaos codex but without the nasty bits works really well for pre-heresy armies. It also allows for squads larger than 10 men. And I'm sure that if you mentioned what the situation was to your opponent before the game it'd be fine.


But yes, Blood Angels are combat maniacs, not as crazy as the World Eaters, but scary none the less.


How are you going to model them?

Arkaedin
31-07-2008, 14:42
Well I'm not doing a whole Legion (though that would be AWESOME), but rather just one marine. I'm just working on a side project where I model one marine from each Pre-Heresy legion.

As to modeling, I'm using Mk6 Greave legs, Mk5 torso, Studded Shoulder pads and Mk4 helmet (I ordered alot of pre-Heresy bits recently :D)

Thanks for all the help guys!

pookie
31-07-2008, 15:05
Well I'm not doing a whole Legion (though that would be AWESOME), but rather just one marine. I'm just working on a side project where I model one marine from each Pre-Heresy legion.

As to modeling, I'm using Mk6 Greave legs, Mk5 torso, Studded Shoulder pads and Mk4 helmet (I ordered alot of pre-Heresy bits recently :D)

Thanks for all the help guys!


Aye we all missed the fact you said you wanted to do A BA marine, our bad eh!

your bitz are fine, although maybe a bit of a mixture of diffrent types of armour, but im not saying its not possible, just unusual that the BA in question would have parts from 3 diffrent marks of armour.

plus just so you know, the Studded Shoulder pad should go on the Left of the Marine, they didnt tend to use it on both sides.

Pics when you have finished please!

Arkaedin
31-07-2008, 15:35
Yeah, I know I hate mixing the marks of armor, but it's hard not to. The oldest plastic marks they have are 5 for the body and 6 for the legs. It's annoying, but not horrible I guess lol.

As to pics, I'll put them in my log (check my sig) within the next few days (first I have to find some primer! :p)

pookie
31-07-2008, 15:47
Yeah, I know I hate mixing the marks of armor, but it's hard not to. The oldest plastic marks they have are 5 for the body and 6 for the legs. It's annoying, but not horrible I guess lol.

oh i know, partly why i choose to do a full MKVI SM Company, although the studded pads are posing a challenge, and they only do one plastic MKVI body, and that its self needs slight conversion to remove the SW extras.

i feel your pain :D


As to pics, I'll put them in my log (check my sig) within the next few days (first I have to find some primer! :p)

aye, will do, always intrested in things like this.

Phoenix Blaze
31-07-2008, 21:27
If your MkIV marine helmet is coming from a plastic sprue, therefor the BT one, then it ain't MK IV. I'm sure it's supposed to be, but it isn't accurate enough, and compared to the more awesome than awesome Forgeworld MK IV stuff just falls down flat.

Oh, and Mk VI knee legs wouldn't be about as the Mk VI Corvus armour wasn't used during the Heresy, regardless of what Battle for the Abyss says.

Arkaedin
31-07-2008, 23:01
Ok, the Mk4 helmet is actually Mk4. Don't know where you got you're information from no offense.
Helmets I used (http://www.thewarstore.com/product33994.html)
Red Scorps Mk4 (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/rsvets.htm)

Slight variation, but still Mk4

But yeah, I realize Mk6 was post-heresy, but seeing as GW doesn't make any pre-heresy legs I just settle for those. Besides, if you want to get technical, all the Index Astartes show the Pre-Heresy scheme with Mk6 greaves and sometimes even Beakies.

EDIT- base armor color on the BA, check my sig.

The Anarchist
31-07-2008, 23:10
one thing apparent for me from the HH books is that all space marines seem to carry a proper combat weapon like chainsword, this would probably be even more likley for a comabt army like BA.

jsut my two cents.

Leftenant Gashrog
01-08-2008, 02:16
Besides, if you want to get technical, all the Index Astartes show the Pre-Heresy scheme with Mk6 greaves and sometimes even Beakies.


Many of the more technically inclined tend to go by the concept sketches in the Rogue Trader Compilation (and the accompanying fluff article) or the updated ones in How to Paint Space Marines. The IA art is pretty, but almost every "pre-heresy" scheme is shown on mid or post-heresy armour, and about the only one that is actual bonafide pre-heresy armour is mislabelled as the wrong mark.

As regards to weapons, there is conflicting fluff about assault cannons, some sources state it was a post-heresy invention, others say it wasn't, notably the Baal Predators fluff in IAvol2 states it has been in use since the Great Crusade.. So I'm inclined to say yes to Baals but no to Terminator AC's ~ which can be fluffed up as saying the larger vehicle mounted weapons work okay whilst smaller man-portable ones have yet to be developed. (that does have some basis - there was a vehicle card in 2nd edition which made Assault Cannons more reliable)

pookie
01-08-2008, 08:38
Oh, and Mk VI knee legs wouldn't be about as the Mk VI Corvus armour wasn't used during the Heresy, regardless of what Battle for the Abyss says.

can you Quote a Source for this please? ( a GW one not Wiki, which anyone can add to/change )

Leftenant Gashrog
01-08-2008, 13:12
I'm not aware of any canon source that says MkVI wasnt used at all during the Heresy, the WD129/Compilation article stated: "Although development was incomplete the new armour was rushed into production as the forces of Horus advanced through the Terran solar system." which is the only source I've ever heard quoted with regards to MkVI not being used before the Heresy.

LokkoRex
01-08-2008, 14:18
blood angels used baal predators pre-heresy, and used them very often in fact, but other assault cannon mounts(terminators, land speeders and dreadnoughts) were rare in all legions.
storm bolters, assault cannons, cyclone missile launchers(i think), plasma cannons and multi-meltas were a rare sight or didn't exist pre-heresy.
but they did have autocannons:)

Phoenix Blaze
02-08-2008, 00:52
The information I had about armour came from a pre-heresy site which I think got their information off of the Lexicanum.

And about the two different MK IV heads, they'e blatantly different, but I suppose the BT one can still be considered accurate. The FW ones are still far superior and menacing as hell. If they didn't cost so much I'd have a lot more.

Darkgod
02-08-2008, 22:45
if your quite good at converting ive got a book with all sorts of ideas for pre heresy blood angels.

the blood angels had chariots on grav plates pulled by jetbikes ( i'm not lying look in a book called Horus heresy collected visions)

i'll try and get piccies of them and post them in the gallery

Phoenix Blaze
03-08-2008, 15:54
I've got that book and I don't recall such artwork, but then again, I don't pay too much attention to the BA artwork. I mostly use it for Emperor's Children reference.

Leftenant Gashrog
03-08-2008, 17:05
I don't recall if the chariot pic got a full sized print, but it was one of the cards so will be in the card section.